Guitar Teacher

[Maaj12]

I have been working through books and online lessons, wondered on peoples experiences with a teacher compared to self taught.

What are the pros of having a good guitar teacher and cons if any?

Any recommended online guitar teachers here in the uk?

[Bobby Timmons]

My opinion is that studying with a good teacher is essential. I don't think you can really get to where you want to be just dicking around on your own. Online is great because you can find a teacher who is really qualified to masterful.

[ragman1]

I have been working through books and online lessons

But can you do 'So What' yet? After all that!

[Maaj12]

But can you do 'So What' yet? After all that!

lol, yes..... kind of

But playing Pat Martino activities over Dm7 and Ebm7 might get a bit tiresome, realised I need some more jazz language.

[ragman1]

I should think endless streams of eighths, if that's what you mean by Martino, would be extremely tedious. The better players tend to keep it sparse but make very good use of the notes.

But I'm not sure he did So What, I think it was only Impressions, and then very fast.

Out of curiosity, which were you doing? So What at 130 -135 or Impressions at 100mph? :-)

[pamosmusic]

I have been working through books and online lessons, wondered on peoples experiences with a teacher compared to self taught.

What are the pros of having a good guitar teacher and cons if any?

Any recommended online guitar teachers here in the uk?

sent you a message a minute ago

[Tal_175]

Be careful though, many private teachers have mastered how to make it look like they are teaching you something valuable while they are really phoning it in. Also many don't have a clear pedagogical method for teaching jazz improvisation.

Student comes in. The teacher says "Let's play something, do you know any tunes?".The students says, "I've been working on Autumn Leaves". The teacher appears very enthusiastic "Oh, I love that tune. What a wonderful choice!". Student blushes with pride.

They start playing. The student stumbles through the head, then starts atrociously noodling around and eventually getting lost. After a couple of choruses, the teacher jumps into his solo (the student gets the cue that they are back on top). The teacher plays 7 choruses. After they finish, the teacher says, "Not bad but you should really use more dynamics, let me show you, comp for me". Then the teacher plays another 9 choruses. Student says to herself "Oh, of course the dynamics" and pays 60 bucks, they set up a time for the next week.

I've had similar experiences early on in my jazz journey. Ideally, for a student at that level, the teacher should give the student a sheet with one octave triads and ask the student to come back after 6 months once they can play through the changes with intervallic awareness. But that's not a sustainable business model.

It's a good idea to be clear about what you want to get out of the lessons and ask the teacher about their teaching plan.

[AllanAllen]

Be careful though, many private teachers have mastered how to make it look like they are teaching you something valuable while they are really phoning it in. Also many don't have a clear pedagogical method for teaching jazz improvisation.

Student comes in. The teacher says "Let's play something, do you know any tunes?".The students says, "I've been working on Autumn Leaves". The teacher appears very enthusiastic "Oh I love that tune. What a great choice!". Student blushes with pride.

They start playing. The student stumbles through the head, then starts atrociously noodling around and eventually getting lost. After a couple of choruses, the teacher jumps into his solo (the student gets the cue that they are back on top). The teacher plays 7 choruses. After they finish, the teacher says, "Not bad but you should really use more dynamics, let me show you, comp for me". Then the teacher plays another 9 choruses. Student says to herself "Oh, of course the dynamics" and pays 60 bucks, they set up a time for next week.

I've had similar experiences early on in my jazz journey. Ideally, for a student at that level, the teacher should give the student a sheet with one octave triads and ask the student to come back after 6 months once they can play through the changes with intervallic awareness. But that's not a good business model.

That sounds like a great lesson to me. One on one time playing with someone better than you can do wonders.

[pamosmusic]

Ideally, for a student at that level, the teacher should give the student a sheet with one octave triads and ask the student to come back after 6 months once they can play through the changes with intervallic awareness. But that's not a sustainable business model.

It’s also not teaching, for whatever that’s worth. Considering you can get a sheet like that online for free, I’d consider that as poor a use of $60 as any.

Teachers like that annoy me almost as much as the “what do you want to play” teachers.

[mr. beaumont]

If you need more "jazz language," it's right on the records.

Teachers I think can be a big help when it comes to things like technique. Beginners of course can really benefit from having a teacher.

I taught for many years. If you were a prospective student I'd tell you to spend a year learning as many tunes and licks from records by ear as you possibly could. If you then said you wanted to pay me weekly to check in on you and make sure the fire stays lit, I'd do that too

[Tal_175]

It’s also not teaching, for whatever that’s worth. Considering you can get a sheet like that online for free, I’d consider that as poor a use of $60 as any.

Sure, you can find everything online. But that is the reason why it's very counterproductive for a student to navigate the infinite online information without supervision. A good teacher can put the student in the right path. Help them figure out the appropriate next steps for their level. Give them clarity about the process so they have a deliberate connection with what they are practicing.

[pamosmusic]

Sure, you can find everything online. But that is the reason why it's very counterproductive for a student to navigate the infinite online information without supervision. A good teacher can put the student in the right path. Help them figure out the appropriate next steps for their level. Give them clarity about the process so they have deliberate connection with what they are practicing.

Right. So a little bit more involved then “learn to improvise with these and come back in six months.”

I have some pretty strong feelings about lame guitar teachers but they usually fall into to two camps.

The first is the one you described, in its more sophisticated jazz disguise, anyway. The “What do you want to work on today” teacher. Which is just obnoxious.

The second is the “You didn’t practice” teacher. Obviously students have to practice but lots of guitar teachers pretend they have super high standards and keep assigning the same things because the student “didn’t learn it” … eventually it’s just an excuse not to come up with a more creative way of teaching it.

Drives me nuts.

[pamosmusic]

It's a good idea to be clear about what you want to get out of the lessons and ask the teacher about their teaching plan.

This is awesome advice, by the way.

[Tal_175]

Right. So a little bit more involved then “learn to improvise with these and come back in six months.”

I have some pretty strong feelings about lame guitar teachers but they usually fall into to two camps.

The first is the one you described, in its more sophisticated jazz disguise, anyway. The “What do you want to work on today” teacher. Which is just obnoxious.

The second is the “You didn’t practice” teacher. Obviously students have to practice but lots of guitar teachers pretend they have super high standards and keep assigning the same things because the student “didn’t learn it” … eventually it’s just an excuse not to come up with a more creative way of teaching it.

Drives me nuts.

Don't get me wrong, weekly or bi-weekly lessons can be useful if there is a bigger pedagogical plan for the student and it matches the student's expectations.

However, some teachers can be too "loose" for what the student needs, on the other hand some may have one size fits all approach, sort of like your second category. These are all different ways of phoning it in.

It is ironic that the more advanced the student is, the more productive the lessons get.

[mr. beaumont]

Don't get me wrong, weekly or bi-weekly lessons can be useful if there is a bigger pedagogical plan for the student and it matches the student's expectations.

However, some teachers can be too "loose" for what the student needs, on the other hand some may have one size fits all approach, sort of like your second category. These are all different ways of phoning it in.

It is ironic that the more advanced the student is, the more productive the lessons get.

Totally agree on the student interviewing the teacher. And vice-versa.

I would always make adult students set goals. Short term and long term, based on the SMART goal model.

S- Specific
M-Measurable
A-Action oriented
R- Realistic
T- Time based

So "I want to learn how to play jazz" is a shitty goal. "I want to be able to play at least five tunes and improvise on them in six months" is a good goal.

[pamosmusic]

These are all different ways of phoning it in.

Preach.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

This is awesome advice, by the way.

I would triple down on that. "Jazz" is pretty big by now, and there are periods and styles. Trad, Swing, Bebop, Post-Bop, Fusion, Modern (whatever that means, as it keeps changing).

I would advise that you become familiar with players and styles, and decide to at least start with a Post-Bop or Bebop focus. Playing one won't take you very deep into the other, as they are not "all the same".

Most players and educational materials have a style/period orientation, whether they disclose it explicitly or not.

[Reg]

Hey Maaj12...

There is no magic, get a teacher that can teach you technique as mentioned by Mr. B. and sight reading.

Playing and memorizing simple tunes is like baby sitting.... Yes you need to learn tunes and styles of using the musical language.... but 99% of guitarist can't play at the speed of jazz.... because of lack of technique.

[mr. beaumont]

decide to at least start with a Post-Bop or Bebop focus. Playing one won't take you very deep into the other, as they are not "all the same".
.

Where did the folks who created bop start? Where did the folks who created post-bop start?

[AllanAllen]

Where did the folks who created bop start? Where did the folks who created post-bop start?

Mel Bay book 1

[Maaj12]

Thanks all, some good advice

Have just been thinking about goal setting and I am not very good at it. Partly due to being all over the place with what I enjoy and feel inspired by.

as Jazzjourney mentioned, there are a lot of different styles of jazz that I would love to play at any given time and Mr B alluding to to start at the beginning? which makes sense.

[mr. beaumont]

there are a lot of different styles of jazz that I would love to play at any given time and Mr B alluding to to start at the beginning? which makes sense.

I'd really have to know where you were at currently, but I really do believe that if you spend some time with Charlie and get an understanding of how he worked, all the stuff that comes after will make a lot more sense.

It should also quickly show you what needs you have technique wise, as to what Reg was saying.

[pamosmusic]

I'd really have to know where you were at currently, but I really do believe that if you spend some time with Charlie and get an understanding of how he worked, all the stuff that comes after will make a lot more sense.

It should also quickly show you what needs you have technique wise, as to what Reg was saying.

Literally just revived that Charlie Christian thread two hours ago.

Charlie Christian transcription group

[mr. beaumont]

Literally just revived that Charlie Christian thread two hours ago.

Charlie Christian transcription group

Cool. I had checked in on that thread and it seemed like there was a lot of people saying-- "oh, this stuff is already available on the internet" and I was thinking "well that's missing the point." I'll check in over there too...maybe I'll post my favorite CC licks and why I love 'em.

[John A.]

One more opinion (you know what they say about opinions ...): I do not think it's possible to learn to play jazz without interacting in person with other actual human beings. Books and videos can be a good supplement, especially if you've already got a baseline of lessons and playing with others, but on their own and without human interaction they're a dead end. I realize that for some people jamming and in-person lessons are impractical, and under those circumstances youtube may be the only option. But if you're in a place where there are people who teach and people who play, it's a much better use of your time to look for them than to go down the instructional youtube rabbit hole.