The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #126

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    I studied with Bob in the late 70's. He is a character but a very nice guy. Taking lessons with him was a life experience I will never forget (you can find me in on his website in his 70's photo section). His teaching methods haven't changed much in the past 35+ years. I unfortunately had to concentrate on my career and put down the guitar for nearly 20 years but I went back to it 2000. I did however carry around my Aria Pro 2 Robert Conti for those years and in fact still own it.

    With regard to the chord melodies, He provides the chord per melody note to give you the option to tailor the song to your tastes i.e. use it or forget it. The Robert Yelin books are very similar. I honestly prefer the block diagrams. It is very easy for me to visualize. When I heard Bob play chord melody he never used a chord per melody note i.e. lots of connecting single line and chord fragments.

    I will also say it was nice to read the George Benson Danny Boy info in West LA Jazz's post. I've started working on GB's version a week ago and I'm pleased to see that GB took a while to get this under his fingers. Gives me hope.
    Last edited by rob taft; 03-31-2015 at 07:57 PM.

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  3. #127

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    Although I've never met him,he strikes as a nice guy on his dvd's,plus he is a great teacher.His single string solos and fingerings for them seem to feel extremely natural for me,and have really shown me a lot.

    It was those dang chord melodies I was having trouble with because there is a chord for every melody note,and that was how I was trying to play them.

    But then yesterday it struck me like a lighting bolt that he was simply giving you options,you didn't have to play a chord for every single melody note,(duh!)

    Now I just read your post and you confirmed what I was thinking.Thanks! So,I guess there are actually many arrangements in each one of his chord melodies, it just depends on how you want to play them.

  4. #128

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    Also,I would like to add that I have learned some other peoples chord melodies and made up some of my own, where sometimes I would just play a 3rd and 7th with the melody on top and a few other guitaristic tricks.

    I have no clue why it didn't occur to me to try that with Mr.Conti's chord melodies.At least I have a lot more chord phrases now.Thanks again for your post and good luck with the GB arrangement.

  5. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob taft

    I will also say it was nice to read the George Benson Danny Boy info in West LA Jazz's post. I've started working on GB's version a week ago and I'm pleased to see that GB took a while to get this under his fingers. Gives me hope.

    Yes. Benson has also comforted me with his occasional candor about practice and working hard to get specific parts of playing a given song well. He was very candid about figuring out the time, process and how to play Danny Boy. He arrived at using triads after mocking the song up in different ways he says. I loved the fact that he played the song in his wood shed till he had it down cold. In his guitar video on one or two occasions he makes a little comment about the importance of getting technique down cold so as not to be embarrassed in front of the audience. Essentially, its work hard so it looks effortless when the audience is watching. I know it sometimes gets lost in the shuffle but that dude is very conscious about audience awareness.
    Last edited by West LA Jazz; 04-01-2015 at 01:19 AM.

  6. #130

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    I met Robert Conti briefly one beautiful Mother's Day back in the early Eighties at a nice restaurant gig by chance. I was there with my mother and family waiting for seating when I heard strains of a solo guitar emanating from a separate bar area. Intrigued I wandered in and found a solo guitarist set up in the corner dressed in a dark suit playing really beautiful solo ballads. In this setting no bebop flash, just great ballad playing. I listened to a couple of songs before I had to tear myself away reluctantly to rejoin my family. During a pause in his playing I approached him to complement him on his playing and to ask his name. In a very hushed voice, almost as if in a trance, Robert replied. And that was it.

    I have never forgotten the encounter. I have never purchased any of his DVDs, as I am not a fan of the "put this finger on this string" approach in general, and I actually far prefer his ballad playing over the bebop thing anyway. But he is a player.

    Jay

  7. #131

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    Once again I scanned through this whole thread and what I realised for the first time .... there are no musical examples. Not a single one. Is there one satisfied custommer to show his progress? If not in before vs. after way, then only after would be nice. I'd really to hear (and possibly see) what an random average Joer can do after taking The Conti route? Something you can say: "Here it is, this is what I learned from Conti."?

    I'm particularly interested in somewhat faster line playing. Nothing virtuos, just something faster than slow blues.
    Last edited by Vladan; 04-04-2015 at 07:48 PM.

  8. #132

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    Last edited by losaltosjoe; 04-04-2015 at 10:46 PM.

  9. #133

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    So, he plays this really well. My question is whether this is Conti's solo, note for note, or is this his own improv, after building up his chops from studying Conti's solos in the past? I'm fine with studying other people's solos as a vehicle to learning chops, phrasing, etc. Everybody, including all the big cats, did that. I'm even more impressed when they've gotten to the point where they've internalized all that and can now just blow on their own in a similar style. Is that what we're listening to here?

    One other question: Conti, like many others, says to play first, then dissect, analyze, and theorize about it later on (but not using theory as the route to learning to play per se). Does Conti's method ever get to the analysis/theory part, or does he leave that up to other people to teach you, once you have some good stuff under your fingers?

  10. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
    ....
    Is this you playing, are you Rob Luft?

  11. #135

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    @Vladan -- Hell I wish I could play like that! It occurred to me (after posting) that my post could be confusing. So in fairness to Mr. Luft, I think I will amend it. If you click on the "Our students actually play..." link you will see many levels of students who are benefiting from Mr. Conti's method. I include his material in my practice routine along with video lessons from Jimmy Bruno, Emily Remler, Mimi Fox, Rich Severson, and others. Please understand that I'm a recreational player who has played for a long time but never put in the necessary practice to get past mediocre. After 40+ years, its nice to put in one of Conti's lessons and be able to solo or comp over Autumn Leaves! Cheers!

  12. #136

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    There are some FREE examples on the internet, one is a full chorus of Blue Bossa, a partial chorus of Autumn Leaves single note solos,a couple of chord melody arrangements, two FREE single string solos on truefire .com over a Bird Blues and over One Note Samba, but you must be a member which is FREE to join.All of them have printable PDF files with standard notation and Tabs and videos with sound so you can play them note for note.I have printed them out and recorded them onto a small cassette player in order to copy them and I am very pleased.

    These were my introduction to Mr. Conti's material.And if you are not satisfied and not completely amazed and overjoyed with this FREE stuff then you will never be satisfied and maybe you are not interested in some real bebop jazz guitar.

    But you do have to work a little and get it under your fingers, there is no magic wand to make you instantly play like this,you MUST play your guitar and worry about the theory AFTER you can play it from memory.

    This is some of the FREE stuff online that I have searched for and have been totally surprised and overjoyed to find.Also check this website's blog for some pretty cool comping etudes over jazz standards!

    Just trying to put a little info out there so that a few motivated individuals might find and really learn to play bebop jazz guitar from!(;^)
    Last edited by milkmannnv; 04-05-2015 at 02:06 AM.

  13. #137

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    Listened to that Robert Luft video of Cherokee. I have never liked that song, but listening to Luft's version, I gained a new appreciation of the tune. Frankly, because I have generally disliked most interpretations of this song, I really don't know if his "melody" lines are those of the original song or an improvised variation. But I know one thing - this guy can play his ass off. That does not sound to me ears like someone playing Robert Conti's version (which I've never heard). Sounds more to me like Robert Luft's version. Damn good, too.

    Jay

  14. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco
    So, he plays this really well. My question is whether this is Conti's solo, note for note, or is this his own improv, after building up his chops from studying Conti's solos in the past? I'm fine with studying other people's solos as a vehicle to learning chops, phrasing, etc. Everybody, including all the big cats, did that. I'm even more impressed when they've gotten to the point where they've internalized all that and can now just blow on their own in a similar style. Is that what we're listening to here?

    One other question: Conti, like many others, says to play first, then dissect, analyze, and theorize about it later on (but not using theory as the route to learning to play per se). Does Conti's method ever get to the analysis/theory part, or does he leave that up to other people to teach you, once you have some good stuff under your fingers?
    I have almost all of Robert Conti's advanced soloing dvds (only need two more) including his Cherokee dvd and this definitely is NOT the solo Robert Conti plays on that dvd or any of the others I have watched,listened to and copied from!In fact in my opinion losaltosjoe plays quite differently from Mr.Conti.Nice job!

    As far as teaching you the theory he does a great job,what he does is kind of relate the line to the chord or series of chords.It is kind of shape based,where he shows you the chord/chords that lie underneath the line that is being played.

    I already had some knowledge of the theory of why he played what he played.Having copied guys like Wes,Django,Charlie Parker,Joe Pass and others prior to copying Conti,I think most people will be able to understand why he plays the lines he does.He is a very good teacher and I'm sure you will understand the theory while he breaks down every measure in the dvd.

    They are some of the best jazz guitar dvd's I have come across because the lines are great bebop lines and he explains everything so simply that you will probably be wondering why you thought it was difficult to begin with.And the fingerings are cake,I felt like I already knew them, they fall very naturally on the fretboard,they have even influenced the way I transcribe other bebop players.

    Unless your an advanced player I would skip over his source code series and go directly to the advanced solos dvds or the Ticket to Improve dvds because they are complete solos over jazz standards as opposed to learning a bunch of his 2 5 1 licks which are already in the solos,They really are the fast track to learning how to play bebop.IMO.
    Last edited by milkmannnv; 04-05-2015 at 04:08 AM.

  15. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
    @Vladan -- Hell I wish I could play like that! ...
    Yes, me to. Have to say, I took a look at several of the other student's examples and this Luft clip is way above everybody else.

    It's obvious people can learn to play something. I've never had any doubt about that, though. Any method is good enough if take it thoroughly, for in the end will be able to do what the method taught you, up to own capabilities. In other words, that was not what I was looking for.

    What I'm interested in is an personal example showing me the solution for some particular obstacle, where some other method, or own common sense failed. Something where Conti's fingering protocol, or system of reharmonization, learning his solo as oposed to learning other people's solos, or whatever he teaches was the missing link for quality break through.

    Even one simple clip of playing major scale through 2 octaves using "standard fingering" vs. using Conti's fingering, if there is such thing as Conti's custom fingering for major scale, something like that, where I could see the method providing advantage over some other method.

  16. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Yes, me to. Have to say, I took a look at several of the other student's examples and this Luft clip is way above everybody else.

    It's obvious people can learn to play something. I've never had any doubt about that, though. Any method is good enough if take it thoroughly, for in the end will be able to do what the method taught you, up to own capabilities. In other words, that was not what I was

    What I'm interested in is an personal example showing me the solution for some particular obstacle, where some other method, or own common sense failed. Something where Conti's fingering protocol, or system of reharmonization, learning his solo as oposed to learning other people's solos, or whatever he teaches was the missing link for quality break through.

    Even one simple clip of playing major scale through 2 octaves using "standard fingering" vs. using Conti's fingering, if there is such thing as Conti's custom fingering for major scale, something like that, where I could see the method providing advantage over some other method.

    I have gone beyond simply learning scales and fingering patterns and concentrate on the music by playing single string solos, chord phrases and comping over jazz standards.

    How you choose to get to the place where you are just playing the music is up to you.There are so many great books,cds,dvds,recordings and other resources out there, that I think it is almost impossible for someone who has the desire not to be able to play some decent jazz guitar.

    As far as clips, simply google Robert Conti watch his hands and listen,there must be at least 100 videos of him and/or his students actually playing.What more could you possibly want.

    For me Conti's approach to soloing is one of the methods that I have taken material from and they work for me.I will concentrate solely on his material and the jazz comping etudes on this site for the rest of the year,then see where I want to go from there.I also like Mark Stefani and Rich Severson's products.
    Last edited by milkmannnv; 04-05-2015 at 12:36 PM.

  17. #141

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    Whatever..

  18. #142

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    lol !!! O.K. (;^)
    Last edited by milkmannnv; 04-05-2015 at 02:02 PM.

  19. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Yes, me to. Have to say, I took a look at several of the other student's examples and this Luft clip is way above everybody else.

    It's obvious people can learn to play something. I've never had any doubt about that, though. Any method is good enough if take it thoroughly, for in the end will be able to do what the method taught you, up to own capabilities. In other words, that was not what I was looking for.

    What I'm interested in is an personal example showing me the solution for some particular obstacle, where some other method, or own common sense failed. Something where Conti's fingering protocol, or system of reharmonization, learning his solo as oposed to learning other people's solos, or whatever he teaches was the missing link for quality break through.

    Even one simple clip of playing major scale through 2 octaves using "standard fingering" vs. using Conti's fingering, if there is such thing as Conti's custom fingering for major scale, something like that, where I could see the method providing advantage over some other method.
    I think if you're looking for some profound distinguishing element, some magic secret trick, you're not going to find it. That's kind of his whole POINT. He thinks that's all just BS.

    "Watch me play it. I'll show you how I do it. That's how I learned too. You don't have to learn theory ABOUT playing before you learn to play something."

    There are a lot of people who dig watching someone else's fingers working and showing them how to play something. He does a good job selling to them. There aren't as many old guys around to hang out with and watch play anymore. He kind of fills that niche for people.

  20. #144

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    I think the point is to learn the chords to a jazz standard, learn some stuff to play over them and the theory and mechanics will take care of itself.

    Even just learning the head (melody) and chord changes to a jazz standard can provide ideas for a solo!

    Emily Remler (God rest her soul) said that when she wanted to learn a new tune (say Blue Bossa for instance) she would copy a chorus or two of the solo from a few of her favorite musicians.

    Some people try to over complicate learning jazz,just copy some stuff from the great players and you're halfway there.
    Last edited by milkmannnv; 04-05-2015 at 03:13 PM.

  21. #145

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    I can't say enough good things about this website!

    There are so many great lessons to be found here that I think a guy could learn how to play advanced jazz guitar from this website alone!

    Thank you so much Dirk for providing this awesome source of learning materials!

    Just wanted to show my appreciation for all your efforts.Great Job!
    Last edited by milkmannnv; 04-05-2015 at 04:35 PM.

  22. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Once again I scanned through this whole thread and what I realised for the first time .... there are no musical examples. Not a single one. Is there one satisfied custommer to show his progress? If not in before vs. after way, then only after would be nice. I'd really to hear (and possibly see) what an random average Joer can do after taking The Conti route? Something you can say: "Here it is, this is what I learned from Conti."?

    I'm particularly interested in somewhat faster line playing. Nothing virtuos, just something faster than slow blues.
    Vladan (you remind me of a transformer btw) you vanish for a while and then BOOM --- OPTIMUS PRIME!

    I didn't record the before samples before I started his lessons 17 months ago. But his precision technique book helped me IMMENSELY. The reason I know I can play faster passages is that I made mp3s of all the etudes on the DVDs. I detuned them on my laptop and Roland's eBand to about 50% and 30% on the tougher to finger passages. in a few months of diligent playing I'm up to 90%. I sometimes have to go back if I haven't practiced say 4 -5 times a week for about 2 weeks in a row (I have a new baby now). But I am certainly a happy customer. A very very happy one because for the longest time, I refused to learn licks and played scales. And my playing sounded like scales. Now I prefer to look at licks as scale fragments. Most importantly, when the fingering is memorized and is "down cold", my fingers automatically jump to those finger positions which makes it easier to start twisting the licks and sort of creating my own.
    The two songs that gave me HEADACHES at say 130bpm tempos were and are ATTYA and SPAIN. At some point I'll record myself soloing over these two songs using Hal Leonard's play alongs mp3s. I wish I had recorded myself when I started. Oh well. ( I have all his SOURCE CODE Books. They are tremendous once you find how best to make them work for you).

    PS:L My brother in law will be in your town in a few weeks to celebrate his birthday with some friends. Lucky B******! ;-)

  23. #147
    l have all of Robert Conti's dvd and all of his Master Series from Truefire.com. l also have all of Pat Martino's dvds and books and his "Nature of Guitar" book that l got off of scribd. Mind you Nature of Guitar deals with how Pat views the l-Ching as related to music. And it is sort of deep, but if you break if down and into playing pieces, then you begin to understand it. Which l do not claim to. l aso have all of Joe Pass's dvds Joe, Pat, Robert all grew up together in Philidelphia together. There is a reunion picture of all three of them together laughing it up on the web somewhere. lf you listen to Joe Pass interact with the crowd at GIT from his Evening With Joe Pass dvd, hosted by Don Mock, Joe says he does know anything about modes and doesn't care about them. He comes from old school of Maj, Min, Dom. base. l am sure no one out there would fluff Joe Pass off as a brunch BS. l view Robert Conti's dvd as like having kick ass in you but coach. And if you get his Chord Assembly and The Formula dvds alone, that will give an indept guitar/theory, harmony instruction that l find easy to wrap my head around. And l have a pile and huge library of dvds, downloads, etc. But those two guys Robert and Joe are old school. Pat is old school, but cereberal and spiritual. Which is not a bad thing. Being someone who had a near death experience myself, l can get behind his view of life. Jazz pianists Kenny Warner Hal Galper, both say that this stuff is not important. Two of the greatest teachers out there by the way. Different styles of teaching, but from the same "old Schools"

  24. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    That's funny. My teacher had some "sessions" with Pat back in--I guess--the '70s. They weren't conventional lessons at all. Instead, he met with Pat and Pat talked about the guitar, music, consciousness. (I heard parts of a cassette recording of one such session.) My teacher thought Pat infinitely deep but I thought this was closer to bullsh*t. (Obviously, I could be wrong. And *I* *KNOW* Pat is a great player.) My teacher mentioned some I Ching stuff that Pat had mentioned but I got a look on my face like someone farted and he dropped the subject.

    Looking back, I wish I had a teacher who was more into Charlie Christian or Herb Ellis. I think it would be easier to move from that to Pat-land than to start in Pat-land.
    Sorry for posting a reply years after you posted this comment, but it got me thinking so.

    I don't know the iching system in depth, but it's basically getting results from six different geometric patterns right?

    Well, we guitarists have geometric patterns on our instruments right. So do you think he was looking at guitar and music in that way?
    Intervallic patterns which can be combined in different ways to create different results. .
    In other words, a sacred sonic geometry.

    If so, he may have tapped into some of the formulas that work over chord progressions , and saw the whole thing this way. And was relatable to the iching system.

  25. #149
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by milkmannnv
    I think the point is to learn the chords to a jazz standard, learn some stuff to play over them and the theory and mechanics will take care of itself.

    Even just learning the head (melody) and chord changes to a jazz standard can provide ideas for a solo!

    Emily Remler (God rest her soul) said that when she wanted to learn a new tune (say Blue Bossa for instance) she would copy a chorus or two of the solo from a few of her favorite musicians.

    Some people try to over complicate learning jazz,just copy some stuff from the great players and you're halfway there.
    Best advice, imho. For me, the key is in a few - not many, but more than one.

  26. #150
    destinytot Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by West LA Jazz
    Yes it will always kick because what Conti is selling is essential to playing. And what makes it even tougher for some people to swallow is that is can play with ANY Jazz guitarist on this planet. The no modes no scale gives us "modern" musicians cause for pause but the truth of the matter is that he wouldn't be plying his trade as an entrepreural educator if his ish didn't work! ;-)

    I found out the hard way about his alleged "controversial" nature when I first asked about him.
    Learning lines seems to be about building your own phrasebook, but CST seems to offer the requisite insight for sophisticated control and flexibility. I favour staring with lines - because, for me, that's where the fun is. Moreover, if I can't hear it... it's meaningless.

    A more useful skill, I feel, is having the requisite skills for autonomous learning of lines - the better to 'mooch' from others (to use Mr Conti's delightful word for it).

    But I won't tire of repeating my gratitude - which I (again) register with an 'all-caps' THANK YOU - for the generosity of the excellent (and modest) players who, in commendable spirit, contribute game-changing tips to threads on theory and technique. (Back to dexterity and fingering on the guitar, and to 'modal interchange' at the piano.)
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-14-2015 at 08:25 AM.