The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Posts 26 to 50 of 249
  1. #26

    User Info Menu

    Also wondering...... I respect his convictions about "just doing it", rather than wasting too much time memorizing modes and scales. But I'm hoping there's less talk-time devoted to that on the product videos. I'm not going to be listening to four hours of that, right?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by chasgrav
    Also wondering...... I respect his convictions about "just doing it", rather than wasting too much time memorizing modes and scales. But I'm hoping there's less talk-time devoted to that on the product videos. I'm not going to be listening to four hours of that, right?
    His videos are basically him playing and then breaking his playing down measure by measure.

    You learn by memorizing his lines.

  4. #28

    User Info Menu

    I guess the only problem I have with Conti's method is the marketing...

    "NO SCALES!!!! NO MODES!!!! BAD CREDIT? NO CREDIT? NO PROBLEM!!!"

    Sounds like snake-oil...I don't like "all or nothing" approaches, but if you get at the root of what he's going for, it's about immersion--not just "what notes?" but the whole package...it's his attempt at Rosetta Stone, if we wish to keep the "jazz is a language" metaphor going (though I think that metaphor is flawed)...it won't give you everything, but no one method will...

    There's been such a line in the sand here between CST and a chord-tone approach lately? I wonder why? My guess is, some folks learned one way and others learned the other, therefore the way they learned must be superior.

    I have a few things I always say that I'm sticking to.

    1. Some situations call for CST, some call for a chord-based approach.

    2. A chord based approach is easier to grasp for most beginners.

    3. Germans love David Hasselhoff.

  5. #29

    User Info Menu

    I don't understand why people get hung up about CST vs chord tones either. I mean it really is basically the same thing if you include the upper harmony.

    G 13 G B D F A C E
    G Mixolydian G A B C D E F

    Patatoe Puh-tah-toe

  6. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by chasgrav
    Also wondering...... I respect his convictions about "just doing it", rather than wasting too much time memorizing modes and scales. But I'm hoping there's less talk-time devoted to that on the product videos. I'm not going to be listening to four hours of that, right?
    Not the entire four hours. :-)

    It's kind of like listening to your grandfather.

    I don't have any of these, but I've got The Chord Melody Assembly Line and The Formula. It's probably just me, but I think the rambling is part of his charm. The Formula is my power nap soundtrack. A couple of minutes of Conti, and I'm out like a light. :-) On the other hand, I don't mind listening to it every day. (Maybe, I'll get some of that reharmonization stuff while I'm sleeping.) He's a funny, hip, old dude.

  7. #31

    User Info Menu

    I agree with Aristotle and Rodney King: "People learn differently" and "Can't we all just get along?" To me, the final arbiter of this thing is if you can play in such a way that it gives you pleasure. I know people who know every statistic there is about baseball but they can play well enough to make a Little League team. I know people that have an encyclopedic knowledge of popular music, but they couldn't carry a tune in a wheel-barrow. I even know people that watch the cooking channels 24/7 but still microwave their dinner. If knowing which tone capacitor goes into which jazz guitar is all you care about knowing in the jazz field, that is wonderful and I am happy for you. But if we are talking about playing jazz guitar then there should be more playing and less talking (IMHO). Talk is good, but it is mainly about playing. Whatever gets you playing and progressing is what counts. I think shutting one's self out of knowledge is rarely a benefit, so learning theory can do nothing but help. But I am also amused at stories like how a batting coach who maybe hit 200 homers in his career was telling Hank Aaron to swap his hand position because he was "doing it wrong." In the end, how you play is your 'cred. Whatever gets you there is what you should do, but don't discount anyone else's method outright. I learned to speak by listening and mimicking. Then, once I had enough chops to speak independently, I stole "lines" from others (mostly Monty Python). After I had pretty much "mastered" speaking, they put me in classes to tell me what I was already doing. "Oh, THAT'S a gerund!" It is nice to know the rules if for no other reason than to know how to break them. If we list all the greats, I wonder how they learned? How many are thinking about which mode they should use when the bridge comes up in eight measures? I have my opinion, but I can barely tune a guitar, so I'll stop typing now. But I'll end by quoting our thread's subject, Mr. Conti: "Play your axe!"
    Last edited by FrankBlack; 04-03-2011 at 05:57 PM.

  8. #32

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I have a few things I always say that I'm sticking to.

    1. Some situations call for CST, some call for a chord-based approach.

    2. A chord based approach is easier to grasp for most beginners.

    3. Germans love David Hasselhoff.
    +1 to # 1 & 2;

    and for point #3, brilliant! lol

  9. #33

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle
    IMO, to become a jazz instrumentalist, there about twelve things you have to practice and master. Whether you do that all at once or one at a time - whatever works for you. We know that people learn differently.
    I must agree that people learn differently. I taught leadership in industry & my wife taught in the Atlanta public schools. Finding the way to reach the student is so key to their motivation, progress, success. I don't believe "if the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught" should be the end of an explanation of non-progress; but I do believe if a teacher [or leader or parent] treats them all alike, that teacher is going to get a variety of results.

    I have several of Conti's instructional dvd's, and I must say I agree that my motivation and development are very positively affected by the way he gets me into learning a REAL song that I want to master. As a performer, he can wow even the most critical music lover in the audience. As a teacher, his approach certainly helps me - which is all I care about. I have even developed some curiosity about theory and structure that I don't think I would have ever forced myself to dig into.

    I'm happy with my Conti dvd's.
    Jay

  10. #34

    User Info Menu

    I'm working with the "Chord Melody Assembly line" right now. Kind of slow going for me as a self taught player coming from a punk rock background. Mostly a challenge with moving from one really unfamiliar chord shape to another smoothly and in time! The basic strategy appears to make sense though.

  11. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by dorfmeister
    I'm working with the "Chord Melody Assembly line" right now. Kind of slow going for me as a self taught player coming from a punk rock background. Mostly a challenge with moving from one really unfamiliar chord shape to another smoothly and in time! The basic strategy appears to make sense though.
    I replied on your other post

    :https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/getting-started/7365-bruno-orberg-conti-v-berkleemusic-2.html#post143415

  12. #36

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Thanks. Read it. Appreciate the helpful info.

  13. #37

    User Info Menu

    I know I am new here - I have done some of Conti's free lessons - now: I know some people here feel he is providing a shortcut or an easy way out - but all he wants to do is get you playing *music* first. If you are like me - coming from a rock and blues background but know nothing about jazz you have two options.

    Learn other peoples lines - and have a great time doing it - so you learn the ones Conti transcribed for you or work out from other people's cds.

    Or

    Listen to the people who tell you that you need to know a collection of modes and scales, read a ton of theory everyday and do "music" lessons where you don't play music.

    Do you see how that sounds? I am not surprised so many people took the "play music right away" route - we can learn why it works later. After all millions of people are listening to music the world over listen to music and they don't have to be told how to listen to jazz or how to appreciate it - sure people write books on that too! However I am not saying modes/scales/theory are useless - I am just saying that I think regardless of what Conti is doing, that a good way to start out with jazz guitar is to dive right in and - you guessed it - play some jazz guitar.

  14. #38

    User Info Menu

    Fleaaaaa.Have a look at Clark Terry's"3 Steps to Imrovisation" on YouTube.

  15. #39

    User Info Menu



    Is it this?

  16. #40

    User Info Menu

    Sorry.Under "Jazzadvice.com"

  17. #41

    User Info Menu

    Thanks man - I am still at "step one" for jazz - but I've walked the others for rock and blues and feel I sound like me - with a mix of others that I like now.

  18. #42

    User Info Menu

    That's what jazz is all about- like life step by step.Just enjoy it!

  19. #43

    User Info Menu

    There are so many uninformed comments about Conti's method that I feel compelled to reply. I use 'uninformed' instead of less polite options.

    1. "Learning solos is not productive" - YES it is very productive. Masters from Dizzy to Wes learned by imitating those who came before (eg. Christian). You not only internalize jazz language but you develop technique and the feel of jazz. Also you learn to twist the phrases, use them in your own improvisations and more. All the greats imitated others as their main method of learning.

    2. Robert Conti doesn't teach you how to think." Again, wrong by people who haven't even bought the products or fully understand his method. Conti teaches us the phrases and how to re-apply them and tweak them such as in Ticket to Improv. Not to mention his Source Code DVDs which explains how he conceives of solos over chord changes (Jazz Lines), how to harmonize and reharmonize tunes for chord melody (Assembly Line, The Formula!).

    I fully understand what I'm playing, how the notes fit over the chord but in the heat of improv there's not as much thinking as playing what's been internalized, choosing what to play and where. Conscious thought it much too slow compared to unconscious thinking.

    All great musicians imitate those that come before. Forums are filled with bitter people who can't play well but like to theorize and chat about jazz guitar all day. Sorry to be harsh but it is so frustrating. Now you know why I avoid forums like the plague as much as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzaluk
    I don't follow the Conti method exclusively, but I did buy his books and sifted through them looking for things i could apply easily within my own style.

    I agree with you that learning his solos is not very productive ... but I did find several simple concepts in his approach that I could integrated into my playing.

    One such concept is a fretboard logic trick he uses to quickly visualize and extract an altered sound over a dominant chord, by using a Maj7 arp a half step up from the dominant. He demonstrates how to apply this with some licks, which I don't particularly like, but through experimentation, I was able to creates many phrases that i do like.

    I love collecting these little tricks. They free the brain from the math, open the ears and lead to some nice surprises.

  20. #44

    User Info Menu

    The Conti books I've used (Formula, Assembly Line) are as thought-provoking as the Martin Taylor DVDs/books and the Joe Pass DVDs/books. It's up to the user to do some thinking and reflecting, not just expect it to be a one-way, passive process. There is no magic other than patience, reflection and hard work. Just my opinion.

  21. #45

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
    Conti is a great player, but he only really teaches lines, not how to think
    Not true! I've used his "Ticket to Improv" DVD, and yes, at first he only teaches you lines and licks. He splits his DVD into four lessons - the first three he teaches you to play one of his guitar solos that he transcribed. However, he tells you right from the beginning that he's having you copy his licks so that you can develop a jazz guitar vocabulary FIRST. After you've mastered the first three lessons, he takes you into a fourth lesson where he teaches you how to USE that vocabulary you learned in the prior 3 lessons. It's the fourth lesson where he teaches you how to improvise with the licks you've learned. I found it to be a very effective way of teaching jazz guitar.

    My one complaint is that he doesn't teach you how to play the head or main melody of the standard tunes he uses - he just charges right into the solo. This made it hard for me to get a feel for and internalize the chord changes. Him showing how to play the main melody would have been really helpful.
    Last edited by shamu1; 10-15-2013 at 01:14 PM.

  22. #46
    I have and use some of Conti's DVD's occasionally. I see how he makes things wonderfully entertaining and very easy for shredders who are getting too old or unsuccessful in rock/blues/funk to start to play jazz by imitating his note for note solos. I agree with the last poster who noted that he doesn't present melody lines but says you should change his lines and says that "one size fits all" so it doesn't really matter what the melody is .I personally find this unsatisfactory but I think his approach is part of the entertainment industry and he is a business man selling DVD's so good luck to him in his endeavours and I hope he sells shed loads.
    I note from his own site that his last CD was years ago and his last actual concert appears to have been in 1986 at a Jazz fest somewhere. If he is "awesome" and a legend as some he say when did anyone actually see him perform in concert.? I'm not including his NAMM appearances when he repeats his solos from his DVD's again .I mean a concert . or why no invites to record solo or with other jazzers?
    This isnt a critisism just an observation . If you know different I would love to see his performances 'including melodies and not just solos posted here.

  23. #47

    User Info Menu

    I don't think any one single method or teacher can teach someone EVERYTHING that needs to be known to play jazz guitar, whether it's Conti or anyone else. All I can say is that my technique and jazz vocabulary has improved immensely because of Conti's videos, and in a very short time period. Specifically, his so-called "fingering protocol" that he insists you use with his videos was groundbreaking for me. I thought it was too complicated at first, but within a few days, I found myself following his protocol automatically. It has helped my dexterity and knowledge of the fretboard immensely.

  24. #48

    User Info Menu

    Personally, I am learning more from transcribing Jimmy Raney solos than from anything else...so I would think that learning Conti solos would be a pretty effective way of learning how to improvise. When you learn a master's solo (I'd call Conti a master) you are not just transcribing notes but rather an entire approach to how to treat certain harmonic passages, or how to approach a solo in general. But I think anyone would get way more out of the process if they tried to learn most of it by ear and then only used the sheets to fill in the gaps or check their work. At least, I did.

  25. #49

    User Info Menu

    I met Robert Conti briefly when he was playing an upscale restaurant gig on Mother's Day in RI back around the mid - '80's! He was playing solo guitar alla Joe Pass, mostly ballads, and he was great. In fact, I prefer his ballad playing to his prestissimo bebop solos. The man can play.

    I think there is a lot to be gained from learning to play jazz tunes, including transcribed solos occasionally, although I feel you learn more if you create your own solos. Theory itself is the explanation of why specific phrases sound good. It informs a well crafted musical piece or song. But it doesn't compose or play the notes.

    The idea of teaching jazz guitar is daunting. if I were to try teaching individuals, I would start with the requirement that they learn to read notation, classical diatonic scales, detailed chord studies and construction, and ear training. Then I would walk them through jazz standards at various levels of sophistication. But not so much in terms of memorizing a series of exact jazz phrases or "licks" (a term I hate), but rather the gist of the phrase. How the guitarist or other instrumentalist shapes his melodies and harmonies.

    My only complaint about Conti's video lessons is that he spends an inordinate amount of time telling you to "put your index finger on the 1st string, seventh fret...." . I would prefer something like, "Start in the seventh position Em7, articulating the following phrase starting on the high B note." In other words, talking in more musically functional terms identifying the notes on the fret board and the chords. If someone has to tell you in that position where the high Eb is, you're not ready.

    Jay

  26. #50

    User Info Menu

    Yeah, the sonofabitch is 68 years old. He shoulda had the decency to kick off after his 10 year long solo guitar stint at that California hotel in '98, instead of deciding to try to make a living selling DVDs to help aspiring players rather than continue gigging. What a bastard.

    I don't get it; here's a guy who managed to do what he loved for a good part of his life and then decided to make a living teaching solo Jazz guitar to folks who would love to have had a small part of his career, and people feel the need to dump on him. No one is forcing you to buy his stuff; plenty of it exists on-line so you can decide if it would work for you or not. This guy did what many of us were never able to do; make it as a jazz player. I would have spent thousands in the 60's for anyone's DVD insights (ok, reel to reel or cassette tape) to become a better bass player, rather than do "drop the needle" transcriptions, analyse solos, try to find competent Jazz teachers... why kick someone who paid his dues and has something to offer just because it's not to your particular liking?

    You know who I don't hear talking like this? The working musicians I know, Jazz, Classical or Rock.

    In my opinion, ANY method will work if you stick with it long enough to understand what you are learning. Unless you NEVER think about what you are practicing/learning, you will become a more proficient player. There is no magic - it takes time, patience, reflection and practice to become a competent musician, no matter what genre.

    This is all my opinion and I'm sorry if I offended anyone; I apologize in advance.
    Last edited by ah.clem; 10-15-2013 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Punctuation