The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    I was transcribing a bebop phrase the other day in the key of G. It was from a bebop phrase that I had learned note for note on Youtube. The person playing the solo played it in the middle of the neck. I played it down around the G fret. I thought it sounded just as good played down low on the neck. What would be the reason for the person demonstrating the bebop phrase to play it in the middle of the neck vs down low?

    There are times when I'm not sure where on the neck a solo should be played. I know that sometimes the lower pitched strings can sound a little boom-y, especially when played up the neck. Are there any other reasons for playing a solo up the neck vs down low? Yes, I'm a novice at jazz guitar.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Each position has a range of notes available. In an improvisational situation you might want a position that allows you to play to a higher register of notes.
    There are fingerings that are more comfortable to play particular phrases in.
    Some lines might go better with a chord shape you might be playing.
    Some lines might be better at staying out of the way of chord shapes you might be playing.
    Some times your line or idea or phrase might be easier in one position, and the tonal centre switches, you want a position that lets your ideas flow so you want to be able to play all over the neck so your fingering considerations aren't inhibited by your musical choices.
    Different positions have different feels, and sounds. A place on the neck changes the amount of "fight" or looseness. You will find out your best fit.
    Some people have fingerings that are more comfortable and they might find it easier to shift up or down the neck than enter into an unfamiliar fingering situation. But get to know them all, and also learn to command a melodic line up and down on a single string too. Then you're really getting to understand your guitar and the freedom it can give you.
    Good luck

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    With a band the lower register solo can get buried in the mix unless you have your amp set for a good deal of volume to punch through it and you are able to properly adjust your guitar volume accordingly on the fly for your solo.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Man, if you learn a lick that sounds good in multiple parts of the neck, go with it! That's a party bonus.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    "Position playing" will limit you. Aspire to play any phrase anywhere on the neck. Unless a note is at the extreme bottom or top of the guitar's range, it can be played in more than one place. This silly but interesting vid by JK shows him playing the same chromatic phrase in something like a dozen positions...



    Thus, play your line in the way that suits the situation musically - for example, because you want to avoid playing in the same range as the piano or the horn section, or because the position your are in flows naturally from the position in which your previous phrase ended.

    Breaking out of the "positional playing" mindset takes a lot of work, so don't expect to do it quickly. But do remember that there's almost always more than one way (or place) to play a given phrase on the guitar neck.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Yes, some parts of the guitar neck can sound better than others for phrases and each guitar is different.

    But, you'll need to play phrases in every part of the neck to get to know this.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Man, if you learn a lick that sounds good in multiple parts of the neck, go with it! That's a party bonus.
    Second this.

    If it’s a line you like, try playing it in a few places, even if you have to transpose octaves!

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    Play things where they are easy for you to play. Don't make things harder trying to play things where other people like to play them. The amount of youtube transcriptions of a jazz blues using the C chord shape is mind boggling.

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    ive got no answer...Wes constantly shifting position..

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    I was transcribing a bebop phrase the other day in the key of G. It was from a bebop phrase that I had learned note for note on Youtube. The person playing the solo played it in the middle of the neck. I played it down around the G fret. I thought it sounded just as good played down low on the neck. What would be the reason for the person demonstrating the bebop phrase to play it in the middle of the neck vs down low?

    There are times when I'm not sure where on the neck a solo should be played. I know that sometimes the lower pitched strings can sound a little boom-y, especially when played up the neck. Are there any other reasons for playing a solo up the neck vs down low? Yes, I'm a novice at jazz guitar.
    Are we talking about playing in the same octave, but just in different positions? So, for example, do you play a G at the 3rd fret on the high E, or at the 8th fret on the B string?

    It's not that simple a question.

    One thing that doesn't require much discussion is to note that same note sounds a little different if you play it on a different string. You can also play that same G at the 12th fret on the G string and it won't sound like either of the others.

    But, that's not why people make a particular choice in many cases. You mentioned a bop line. Usually, those are fast. So, one issue is that it's easier to play notes if they're on the same string -- the pick just goes back and forth. So, quite often, players who use alternate picking are finding a left hand fingering that makes it easier to pick the notes, which often involves minimizing the changes of string. Sweep pickers may not be so troubled by string changes, but since I'm not a sweep picker, I'm no expert on it.

    If the guitar was tuned so that every string was the same interval from the next one, this wouldn't matter much. But, standard tuning is not symmetrical. So, the fingerings are different if they involve the higher strings.

    There are other considerations that tend to be specific to the line you're trying to play. But they kind of amount to this -- some positions will make the line easier than others -- and different players will reach different conclusions depending on their mechanics, in both hands.

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by voxo
    ive got no answer...Wes constantly shifting position..
    I could watch him play all day. He never runs out of ideas, and they flow so seamlessly. His fingers look so gentle, like they're floating on top of the strings. But I think the reason he resonates with me (and a lot of us) in ways others don't is that everything he does is musical. There's no showing off and it all fits the context of the song beautifully.

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    GuyBoden gave some sage advice here. It depends not only upon the tune you are playing, but also upon the guitar you are playing. Some guitars just bet to be played on frets 3-9. Others want to be played higher up the neck.

    Listen to what your ears are telling you.

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Keeping things simple, if you’re an instructed guitar player, skip reading - I won’t insult integrity or intelligence here, but if you’re a blues or rock type of player, you need to know one word: Pentatonic.

    The pentatonic scale is here and easily found; that’s the basis for most blues and rock players, and yes, there is another word to remember: Positions.

    The positions are:

    1, 3, 5, 7, 9, Second Neck (starting at the 12th fret, where everything is literally repeated just like from the first fret of the guitar.

    Say you’re playing a good rock or blues tune in the key of C; most rock and blues leads live in a C minor pentatonic scale, as in the notes C, Eb, F, G, Bb, C, Eb, F, G, Bb, C. In certain positions (like the 7th), you can get an extra note, like Eb, and so on. You can stretch that Eb up to a F if you choose to. Stretching the Eb downward on the third string can yield an F, and just taking your Bb up to C with vibrato for good effect on the second string can do it like Clapton, Hendrix, Frank Marino et al.

    You can get a C minor pentatonic beginning at the 13th fret, fifth string, within the confines of a G minor pentatonic. You can zip down to an A minor pentatonic at fret 5 and do major key variants using C Major’s relative minor (in pentatonic), A minor. Stretching your strings appropriately will yield the flavors you’re looking for in these variants.

    Yes, playing in different positions yields many variants and the notes may be the same, but when played up in these different regions, even the tone of the guitar changes. For example, if you listen to David Gilmour in Pink Floyd’s “Money,” you can hear his Strat scream like a banshee when they get past the keyboard vamp and make the minor chromatic run backward to end in the note of B - and he then turns it loose. Very dramatic, very blues, very much rock too.


    As an Apple user, I recommend apps like GtrLib for beginners, and folks who want to learn more chords and their inversions. You can tap on the appropriate chord diagram, and the chord will play. With chords, it gives you an idea of where the scales can occur. Of course, scales are merely the beginning, but when you know where your scales are, it opens things up quite nicely when you’re playing rock and blues using pentatonic scales within.

    Best of luck, and keep picking and strumming. LW


  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    yea the meat and potatoes for jazz guitar... is between the 3rd and 12th frets. (15th)

    of course depends on the guitar, the gig etc. last night I was with a tenor sax and we played a lot of head in same range, great effect with tenor sax. I think on some of the bebop heads, which usually will go 2xs before solos etc. I would go up an octave on 2nd time... again just for effect... live arranging thing. We both took turns playing typical 3rds and 6th harmony parts... when we could. Which again depended on key and range.

    It really also depends on your tone... the vid above was somewhat toneless. Not Jonathan... he's incredible musician, just the tone and effects.... that's not the norm when working in ensemble. Your typically brighter and thinner tone, or there's no room left for the rest of band.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    If it's an improvised solo, I'm using a few seconds before the solo to figure out what note I want to start on and where on the neck I want to start. I like to start solos with a simple statement that relates directly to the melody or harmony. So that usually means playing out of a familiar position where all that is easily available. After that, I pretty much forget about positions and go all over the neck, both across and linearly up and down.

    Of course, you should eventually get to the point where you can play a note anywhere and turn it into a musical phrase.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    "Position playing" will limit you. Aspire to play any phrase anywhere on the neck. Unless a note is at the extreme bottom or top of the guitar's range, it can be played in more than one place. This silly but interesting vid by JK shows him playing the same chromatic phrase in something like a dozen positions...



    Thus, play your line in the way that suits the situation musically - for example, because you want to avoid playing in the same range as the piano or the horn section, or because the position your are in flows naturally from the position in which your previous phrase ended.

    Breaking out of the "positional playing" mindset takes a lot of work, so don't expect to do it quickly. But do remember that there's almost always more than one way (or place) to play a given phrase on the guitar neck.
    position playing is no more limiting than single string playing….in fact - since more range is available in a smaller space than on a single string, less so. that said, to unlock the synergy of picking AND total range of the instrument, both are necessary.

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Factors that might influence what position on the neck I choose:
    - Do I expect to extend the melody upward or downward? If upward, I might start higher on the neck.
    - Where is the phrase easier to play?
    - Where do I prefer the tone? Lower on the neck allows more of the string to vibrate for more harmonic content (think piano). Higher on the neck can be darker. Unwound strings are brighter than wound strings. Magnetic pickups also respond differently to different string lengths.
    - Do I want to use some vibrato? Wound strings respond much differently than unwound.
    - Might I want to add some other chord tones? If so I’d play the melody near a convenient chord/arpeggio shape.

    The last factor probably dominates the decision for me, since I tend to learn tunes by starting with a solo arrangement (e.g., chord melody). Of course there’s no time to think about all of the above factors when performing, but I do when learning and practicing.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    If your girlfriend is a Duane Eddy fan, start low.

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    I find that accented notes have more of a 'ping' on thinner string that fatter ones. Stuff sounds brighter on thinner strings.

    I find that some people on this forum are against positional playing, that it is restrictive etc. But I find it a great way of working things out, position + key gives u a pretty decent system to know where you are with the notes and what you are doing.

    Every little lick you do or chord u play can be traced back to the position+key system. When u see players e.g. Wes going all over the fretboard, I think those players have basically just mastered positional playing so well that they can link them up and jump about the fretboard as second nature.

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    I haven't read the whole thread, but as an answer to the original question I would definitely say the side with the frets and strings.

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Hi!
    where on the neck should I play a solo?

    My answer is very clear: play the solo where you play the chords.

    First Thing First play the chords of the song.....then play your melodic lines in the same position(s) of the chord(s).

    Of course my advice is good for beginners Jazz guitar players. If you have some experience in jazz improvisation just play where you want on the neck.

    Bye!


    Ettore