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Ok everyday I have the blues - I’ll try and do a take down of Freddie’s part (perhaps I should post this in Jeff’s thread) but he is heavily on the root on the I chord… theres
more to it for sure but that’s a big thing (I think he actually plays a couple of double stops on this one haha). Have a listen, he’s really distinct on that one, must have been near the mic…
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01-26-2023 01:58 PM
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More great "hearing Freddie" material.
Christian, feel free to post anything and everything over in that thread I started. I'm hoping it can become a good resource.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
But I think you left out the 'x' for the high e string, right?
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Originally Posted by bluenote61
what’s it for?
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Lots of excellent advice and instruction already! Let me just add: some years ago, Jim Ferguson authored an excellent instruction book called "Swing To Bop," which starts with the basics, and shows how to build and use three and four note chords (mostly three) to play virtually anything you want/need, and provides lots of good song examples, too.
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Originally Posted by bluenote61
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Unrelated to the OP's question, this should blow your mind.
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At the Vanguard!
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Originally Posted by Topper Roth
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Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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I have to take a minute to say I appreciate you guys ! Really !
... what am I doing hanging a big band thread ? ... reading some GREAT stuff, is what.
I love the Basie vid above. Freddie does a bit more than I thought, though still nicely sparse and cool.
Woody's playing some great fills / stabs above. That's not just guide tones.
Reg pops in and says -those extensions are noted for a reason, you can...- I grabbed that chord chart, I'm playing with it, kinda eye opening.
Here's a question:
Do you guys ever purposely leave the harmony ambiguous ? I mean in an arrangement, would Basie do it ? ..I'm thinking about something like a sus13 chord ...
pdawg: would you mind posting an update after you've played with them again ? I'm curious if you can ask the band leader, what he hears / what he wants and generally how it goes.
Anyway, I just wanted to give you guys a big cheers !
-best,
Mike
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Originally Posted by mjo
When I compose I usually know the exact chord voicings I want at critical points in the tune and I specify them.
But, that doesn't always work for solos, so I may write out a solo section with simplified changes. That's with the understanding that the players are going to make it jazz, meaning, fiddle around with the harmony as the tune develops.
You mentioned sus13. Let's suppose it's a Gsus13. That's G B D F A E. On guitar, you might hear G F C E G. It may be a dominant resolving to a G7 or G13 and then to Cmajor. Perfectly nice chord. Wouldn't mind hearing it. But in a chart, I'm probably going to write Dm7 to G7 and make it player's choice.
Gsus13 is very close to Dm9 (D F A C E) All you need to do is add a G, which is easy in x53553. The distinguishing characteristic is that C note (the sus note) against the remainder of a G7 or G9. Call it a G13sus or a Dm9 or Dm11 ... I don't think it will matter much. The players will be in the same ballpark either way.
Players know how to adjust things like this on the fly.
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It's timely for me this thread came up, as I'm back to rehearsing with a community big band after a 3 year covid suspension. We're starting back up mostly with Basie charts we did before.
So much of the advise here is exactly what I would say based on my experience. The guitar is part of the engine room of the band, you keep the pulse even if the drummer is doing Buddy Miles and the piano is doing Basie (or like us, you don't have one).
Yes, learn to count rests and always know where you are. It's still an easier job than the horns have, they don't play as much, have to do more pick-ups, play unison, etc.
The guitarist needs to know chords, up and down the neck, read it and play it, don't miss a beat. But there's a chart! For me, that's easier than tunes I don't know well from memory.
If you don't know a chord, wait for a break, when a section is working on a tricky spot- then turn down, figure out the fingering, get it on the next chorus. Learn the enharmonics and common chord shapes, for 6's, 9's. Figure out the 11's and 13s when you can, they're not mandatory. Me, I learned all those big Micky Baker, Johnny Smith chords long ago. i don't worry about "leave out this" or "just play the root and whatever'- I just don't play the whole chord even if I'm fingering it.
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Yea--Some great advise from 'fellow-big-band'ers!' Have you been into the Freddie Green website? Here 'tis:
The Freddie Green Web Site
Freddie Green the greatest big band guitarist of all time. So many guitarists try to emulate him. His timing / sound--'to die for'. Mr Green kept his chords simple--basic chords. For example if he had to play a complicated chord he would play the basic chord and he knew that the horns / brass would take care of the rest of the notes in the chord. His emphasis would be on the 2nd and 4th beats of each bar--sometimes 3-- sometimes 2 even sometimes 1 note --and the guys in the Basie band said his timing was spot on.
Listen to 'The Atomic Mr Basie': (1958 recording)
I have played in a few big bands and a few of the guitar parts were virtually unplayable---some bars in 4/4 would have 5 'complicated' chords in--the arranger of the tune having no idea of how the guitar works.
My advise would be to learn the basic chords in at least 2 positions--ask to take the parts home to look at.
Keeping good time with piano / bass / drums is key--and lots of practice time.
For shear big band 'swing' style Count Basie was the man.Last edited by swingtoneman; 01-30-2023 at 10:06 AM.
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Thanks again to everyone for the advice. There's a lot of good info here for me to work on. I went to rehearsal last Saturday and the band's regular guitarist is back. It's very helpful to sit next to someone who knows what they're doing. He understands where I'm at and is willing to help me learn the ropes. For now, all is good.
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Originally Posted by pdawg
So, out of curiosity...what was he doing on "Night Train?"
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Starting out a band is a tough task and a needs a great commitment with patience. It is not an easy fit to be a leader especially a band.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Edit: Thanks for the follow up pdawg. I'm envious now, I think you're in a great situation !
-best,
Mike
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Originally Posted by pdawg
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Originally Posted by redsea
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Originally Posted by pdawg
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Seems like the "how to guitar" part has already been covered to the extent that I have nothing more to add. (a lot of great advice).
When I was a child finishing pre orchestra and about to advance into the main school orchestra the instructor gave us a talk about that starting in the main orchestra was scary and difficult. He said that we would struggle and often get lost (in the sheet) but after some time we would get the hang of it. He was of course right.
Keep doing it and you'll become good at it with time.
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There's lots of good advice here. I particularly agree with Jeff's advice regarding two and three note chords. Freddie Green made a career out of them. Grab the third and the seventh and you're halfway home. Try to develop a feel for making straight quarter note strumming swing. That's what they'll want to hear.
For now, keep it simple and just get through the charts. It'll get easier over time. I also suggest that you use your phone to take pictures of these charts when you're in rehearsal. Look them over at home and start learning some of those extensions that are easy to grab. Third, seventh and flat five (or flat nine) is a big improvement over just the third and the seventh. Again, keep it simple. You don't have to play every extension, and you almost never need the root (you'll just get in the bass player's way). The fifth is usually expendable too. Somebody else will almost certainly cover it. Play the third and seventh and whatever else sounds good. Over time you'll work out some things that will be useful in a lot of tunes.
Hang in there and have fun. Big band playing is a tremendous learning opportunity.
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Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
But it sounds to me like their leader lets the people take the books home with them. If so, that's very lucky. Not many bands do.
The Late Ron Moore - One of Scotland's finest...
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