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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Not saying this to provoke you, and you can take this or leave it as you please …

    If you bring this vibe to your encounters with other musicians I suspect it will drive them away. I mean we all know that jazz’s footprint in the culture is shrinking, but the way to keep it alive is to keep it alive in both action and attitude.

    As an example, a couple in my neighborhood (both music teachers with varying degrees of professional performing activity) took it upon themselves to incubate a scene.

    They convinced a local restaurant to host a jam session, promoted the hell out of that, organized an annual festival, paid people to stream performances during the pandemic, etc., and have gradually expanded the scope of all that. There’s now a non-profit that funds events and commissions compositions (I’m a board member of that). There is now genuine scene where there wasn’t one 7 years ago. It’s all built on a foundation of positive attitude about the present.

    I wish I had any kind of self-promotion skills. I absolutely HATE doing it.

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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, J,
    Thanks for your honest feedback. However, I totally agree with you with the added understanding that we must be honest about what is happening to our Art and, as you mentioned above, how we might try to keep it alive. However, it's not my contact with other musicians but my lack of contact which, in comparison to my former life in Chicago, is quite significant. I chose over 30 years ago to retool as a solo Classical Guitarist since I wanted to continue to perform and there were and still are, real opportunities for paid performance. And, until Covid, I was a weekend warrior but I'm still concerned about contagion and haven't really sought any gigs. However, I do miss Jazz/Bossa ensemble playing but need to find other pros in my new area since I really don't have the time or inclination to be a mentor to developing musicians. I just want to play. I hope this is clear.
    Marinero
    Where are you? Maybe if you mention that, people here might have specific ideas for how/where to find players of a higher caliber than you've been able to find. Absent that, all you can really do is play with the people you do find. If no one meets your standards, then you can either change your standards or play with no one.

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    Are you trying to bully me? I was as always speaking for myself; the comments I read sounded like they were coming from an ignorant child who was frustrated with the realities of the world so I kindly offered a little help in an attempt to educate them. Deal with it.
    Tell you what. How about you be submissive all you want and I'll do as I please. Do you seriously think no one else on this forum can play single note lines over changes? I do that while accompanying myself with bass and chords on organ. And people who dispel bullying on a friendly forum where everyone is equal are out of line? I think you're the child.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I wish I had any kind of self-promotion skills. I absolutely HATE doing it.
    I think everybody hates it, but willingness to do it (despite hatred of it) is why some people get a lot of gigs and most of us don't.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    I think everybody hates it, but willingness to do it (despite hatred of it) is why some people get a lot of gigs and most of us don't.
    Someone does it for me.

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    Someone does it for me.
    Lucky you.

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I wish I had any kind of self-promotion skills. I absolutely HATE doing it.
    On the topic of selling a a group:

    Pitching my jazz group to a restaurant or bar was something I avoided for years. I didn't like what I imagined the relationship would be. And, with the money likely to be offered, I'd then have to ask my fellow musicians to play for an insulting amount of money. So, I didn't do it -- for years.

    Gradually it dawned on me that musicians of the level I needed were taking that kind of gig quite often. Which freed me up to try to sell the group.

    I was walking down the main business street in a nearby town when I saw an ad for a jazz trio in the window of a place I'd played at before. It had changed hands and was a different kind of restaurant -- but it was the same building. For some reason, I walked in and asked the guy behind the counter if there was anybody I could talk to about bringing in a band. He said sure, and asked for some tracks. I had to get his email, because I didn't have a website. So, I sent him 5 tracks. He wanted us. So, I asked the musicians I wanted if they were willing to play for this kind of money and they all said yes. I was pleasantly surprised. The place hired us and we've been there twice a month since.

    I then did the same thing at two other places, both assented. One required a website, which I made with bandzoogle in a couple of hours. We took one of the offers and turned the other down because we then had as many of this kind of gig as we wanted.

    I advertised the gigs on Facebook and a radio station's Jazz Calendar for the area.

    The reason I'm posting this is because I was surprised to find that it wasn't difficult or unpleasant. But, this type of gig is not something that a musician can make a living at.

  9. #83

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    "The reason I'm posting this is because I was surprised to find that it wasn't difficult or unpleasant. But, this type of gig is not something that a musician can make a living at. . . " rpjazzguitar

    Hi, RP,
    And, this is the million-dollar denouement! There ARE opportunities to play but at what price? And, please understand that this is NOT an attack against you but rather a fair statement of reality: namely, every time someone plays for peanuts it destroys anothers chance for playing for a fair price. Most musicians who are capable of playing with an ensemble have spent untold dollars on formal musical lessons, quality instruments, and uncountable hours of practice. That's why music unions started to provide a minimum wage and fair working conditions for musicians. However, as a member of Chicago's Local 10-208 for over 15 years, I can tell you that only happened in the top echelon venues in the city and everything else was a free for all. So, we musicians are really responsible for our problems and there's the rub.
    Further, for clarity, I never had a problem getting solo gigs for a fair price(with some research and pavement pounding) and although I haven't played since Covid in my new state, I'm certain I can find solo work when I'm ready. The difficulty, as in my original question, was to try to find other competent musicians for some ensemble work as a duo/trio playing Jazz which I've found lately . . . I really miss it. Thanks again for your honest reply.
    Marinero



  10. #84

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    The main problem for musicians self promoting is that musicians can play to a good or better level spend their time feeling profoundly incomplete as players. It’s what makes them good; that desire to improve and relentless self criticism.

    it doesn’t however make for the best self-promotional mindset.

    to self promote - indeed function - as a professional musician you kind of need to find a way to turn that off - or at least not signal it too much - when not in the practice room. It’s a weird duality, but it’s easier when you realise absolutely everyone feels the same thing.

    This conflict manifests in different ways, some benign, some health, some unhealthy, some toxic.

  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    The main problem for musicians self promoting is that musicians who are any good spend their time feeling profoundly incomplete as players. It’s what makes them good; that desire to improve and relentless self criticism.

    it doesn’t however make for the best self-promotional mindset.

    to self promote - indeed function - as a professional musician you kind of need to find a way to turn that off - or at least not signal it too much - when not in the practice room. It’s a weird duality, but it’s easier when you realise absolutely everyone feels the same thing.
    Excellent point, C!
    And, in that case, you need to find someone to book the gigs for you. . . a friend or family member who has these skills with a promotional package of recorded music, rate sheets, contracts, and examples of the self-advertising you'll do for the gig. And, since you play at a high level, you shouldn't ever play for free or the proverbial peanuts of lesser musicians. For me, however, it's soup du jour since I did it for every band I played in since my youth unless it was a union gig as a sub or when we had an agent(s) in the Jazz Rock big bands. A musician of your caliber should be working regularly . . . somewhere. Good luck, C!
    Marinero

  12. #86

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    M,

    Reading over your comments. You moved out of a major city, then COVID hit, and due to that, you haven't played live or gone out to make connections. Get a business card and start playing gigs, hit up open mic/jam nights and get friendly with the host band, these are the professionals in the room you have access to at jam nights. They have contacts, they know working musicians, they might know a player who has always wanted to play in a bossa nova duo but it's never happened.

    The guy who gets up there and flubs through a blues, when he's done tell him he did a good job and give him a smile, people like that keep the jam alive so you have somewhere to meet players, plus you don't know where they are in their journey and where they'll end up.

    It's like fishing, you don't catch a fish every time but sometimes you do. More importantly, you can't catch a fish at home.

  13. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Excellent point, C!
    And, in that case, you need to find someone to book the gigs for you. . . a friend or family member who has these skills with a promotional package of recorded music, rate sheets, contracts, and examples of the self-advertising you'll do for the gig. And, since you play at a high level, you shouldn't ever play for free or the proverbial peanuts of lesser musicians. For me, however, it's soup du jour since I did it for every band I played in since my youth unless it was a union gig as a sub or when we had an agent(s) in the Jazz Rock big bands. A musician of your caliber should be working regularly . . . somewhere. Good luck, C!
    Marinero
    thanks, I appreciate the vote of confidence, that’s very kind.

    I have gone through periods of that type of self promotion and I would say that picking up the phone or sending those emails may feel like a waste of time sometimes especially when you don’t even get a ‘no’, and it can feel like you are shouting into the void, but it always seems to get something moving. So, as painful as it is, it’s worth it. It’s also a bit of numbers game, at least at first.

    It’s astonishing that someone would book anyone new on the basis of an unsolicited email or call when you think about it. What’s the guarantee for the venue these people are even going to turn up? And yet it happens….

    it’s also a risk booking a new player for a gig.

    (Atm for various reasons I’m quiet on the gig front and mostly teaching.)

  14. #88

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    I didn't do it for decades for that reason. But, when I found out that so many musicians were doing it, including plenty above my level, it didn't seem like my reluctance made any difference. You might say, well, if nobody thought that way the problem might be solved, but is that going to happen? Seems to me that the ship has sailed.

    And, I can see how many dinners the restaurant is serving, their prices and their likely food cost. Nobody is getting rich off the band.

  15. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    thanks, I appreciate the vote of confidence, that’s very kind.

    I have gone through periods of that type of self promotion and I would say that picking up the phone or sending those emails may feel like a waste of time sometimes especially when you don’t even get a ‘no’, and it can feel like you are shouting into the void, but it always seems to get something moving. So, as painful as it is, it’s worth it. It’s also a bit of numbers game, at least at first.

    It’s astonishing that someone would book anyone new on the basis of an unsolicited email or call when you think about it. What’s the guarantee for the venue these people are even going to turn up? And yet it happens….

    it’s also a risk booking a new player for a gig.

    (Atm for various reasons I’m quiet on the gig front and mostly teaching.)
    Hi, C,
    A couple of things that will get you gigs right away:
    1. Go solo. Forget the other guys. It's more money for you and you'll work in more intimate settings with better pay.
    2. Start with the best 5-star hotels in your area and ask for the entertainment director. Bring your package, including a sampling
    of your music and a list of your previous gigs. No blue jeans and t-shirts: tux pants and shirt should be emphasized at
    your meeting for the performance. Forget the phone calls! You must go in person.
    3. Play standards that everyone knows: Stardust, Misty, Over the Rainbow, Body and Soul, Days of Wine and Roses, My Funny
    Valentine, etc. Forget the Swing stuff. People are eating dinner and just want enjoyable background music for their
    Rack of Lamb with oven-browned potatoes. You're still playing great music.
    4. Bring your CD's, business cards, and your TIP JAR!
    I've done this part-time for the last 30 years, albeit on CG, with a few Jazz/Bossa standards in the mix. There was never a time when I put in the effort that I couldn't find a gig. Stick with "high-line" venues and forget the beer crowd. Ever wonder why you always see a piano player working at the best restaurants in town? Once you're known, you'll be booked steadily ( as much as you want) and you'll get a shot at weddings, private parties, etc.
    5. You won't get gigs by talking about it. Plan a day when you'll hit 5 places a day. I would be surprised if you didn't have a gig after three days. Remember: Five-Star hotels, wine bars, upscale bistros, wine conventions/festivals. Really, there are gigs for the solo musician. Good luck!
    Marinero