The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    It's useful for those who play all day with another neck.
    I don't understand.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Hi !

    Forgive it @Litterick...

  4. #53

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    Really depends on how much rote memorization your brain can take.

    For me, knowing what notes are in a chord and therefore available is more useful than memorizing a hundred synonyms of rarely used chords. But certain relationships, like the half diminished/m6/rootless 9th chord are absolutely necessary.

    I'm thinking more and more in 2 and 3 note clusters these days. 4 notes seems like a lot for a chord.

  5. #54
    This thread had amused me, what started as a guitarist having a moan about being stuck on some chord fingerings unearthed some real deep philosophy about music, the universe and everything.

    I like the term 'cowboy chords' nice and derogatory to an 'inferior' type of music, how have I not heard this b4?!

    Anyway am pleased to announce that the stinking blue bossa chord study that had taken me back to my beginner days is now in the bag... After lots of good honest practice.

    Jazz chords are harder to finger than 'normal' chords. I will not accept any other arguments. Furthermore that assetion makes me feel better about the week of practice I've just had to do to be able to play a measly 6 new chord fingerings.

  6. #55

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    X x 6 7 x x
    x x 5 6 x x
    x x 6 7 x x
    x x 5 6 x x
    x x 6 7 x x
    x x 3 4 x x
    x x 8 8 x x
    x x 7 8 x x
    x x 6 7 x x
    x x 8 8 x x
    x x 7 8 x x
    x x 6 7 x x

  7. #56

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    Who gets to define "normal"?

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKong

    I like the term 'cowboy chords' nice and derogatory to an 'inferior' type of music
    I don’t think it’s supposed to be derogatory. Based on the second half I think your elitism is showing.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    I don’t think it’s supposed to be derogatory. Based on the second half I think your elitism is showing.
    Yeah, cowboys are cool. And tough. They'd wipe the floor with some jazz cat.

    Except the Dallas Cowboys.

  10. #59

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    About cowboy chords--before I came across that descriptor, I just thought of them as "folk chords," since they were sufficient for most of the Folk Scare material I came up with. When I started learning swing style and material, it was clear that those fingerings, with their open strings, weren't going to produce the swing rhythm sound, and that closed fingerings, along with chords beyond major, minor, and dominant-sevens, were a necessary part of that vocabulary.

    So for twenty years or so, I didn't play a lot of folkish material, but when I joined a bunch of bluegrass-country guys for a Sunday jam session, I rediscovered the utility of those basic voicings--in fact, for a lot of the country material they are optimal. I can get away with substituting some nines for dominant-sevens, but for the most part the chords I had mastered by 1966 do the job. And I confess that I find the music pretty satisfying. (Though I can understand why some folks are tired of "Wagon Wheel.")

  11. #60

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    My understanding is that the term cowboy chords derived from the type of chords (mostly open-string), used by the early US based cowboy singer\guitar players like Gene Autry and Roy Rogers. These guys were very popular and they were first rate performers.

    As others have noted, all type of chords can serve a purpose; e.g. sound "best" depending on the situation.

    I do find so call jazz chords to be harder to play, in that one is often having to suppress a string (e.g. on a root-6 chord one suppresses the 5th string), so it can take practice to ensure a clean sound.

  12. #61

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    If only Gary Larson had done a Far Side cartoon on cowboy chords...

    Tony

  13. #62

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    How do you call the chords of a real cowboy playing jazz?


  14. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    I don’t think it’s supposed to be derogatory. Based on the second half I think your elitism is showing.
    Please, it's meant to be humerous!

  15. #64

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    Hey, if a piano player can do it, you can too. Stay after it!

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKong
    Please, it's meant to be humerous!
    it figures, humor is lost in text. It’s like we need a font or punctuation for sarcasm.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    it figures, humor is lost in text. It’s like we need a font or punctuation for sarcasm.
    To be honest I think it’s more a cultural thing. I think in the US people make the assumption that stuff is to be taken at face value, whereas on this side of the pond we tend to expect humour. Flagging humour as such gets rid of the thing that makes it appealing, and the subtlety of it.

  18. #67

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    context is everything

    watching someone play a "chord melody" with "jazz" chords seems easier to play then someone playing basic triad based chords in the first position.

    I wonder if the chords know they are cowboys..or cowgirls..

    I have seen Larry Coryell in person and up close several times and he incorporated triad based chords in his playing which gave the tune a country flavor

    John Scofield also has used triads in some of his work

    same can be said of Ben Monder and Eric Johnson

    I often use triads (in all neck positions)

    My view of this thread .. if all you play are basic triads..of course more advanced chords are going to be more difficult but if you have been using

    "Jazz" chords for an extended period of time they may feel as easy to finger as a basic triad

  19. #68

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    I think a flat five (b5) is harder to change than a flat tire.

    Tony

  20. #69

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    Sometimes playing open-string chords can be "harder" when a song has chords that can't be played as open-string chords:

    Take Honey-Pie by Paul McCartney; The chords are G7, Eb7, E7, A7, D7, G7, Eb7, E7

    I played this using 6th string root bar chord for G7, and A7, and 5th sting root chords for the Eb7, D7, E7. Very basis chords all in one area of the next (i.e. little wrist movement).

    My friend likes using open-string chords and didn't know how to play an EB7. I showed him the 5th root chord and also "advised" him that he should not use any open-string chords. Well we start playing and he uses open-string chords for the progression (expect for that Eb7) but loses the rhythm since when going from the open string G7, to the Eb7 (at the 6th fret), and back to the top of the neck to play E7.

    I "advised" him that he can use the same Eb7 voicing to play the E7 at the 7th fret. I get "yea, I know that" (and he does since we play Sweet Georgia Brown using such chords and no open-string chords). BUT he just doesn't do it;

    The "B" section causes even more problem since it uses a C# m7b5. I.e. his wrist is going up-and-down the next making the rhythm all choppy. I show him how the song can be play where the wrist never has to move up-or-down more than 2 frets. I get "I get it", but his muscle memory playing open-string chords is so strong he can't stick to those bar-chords and 5th strong root chords.

    Oh well.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    To be honest I think it’s more a cultural thing. I think in the US people make the assumption that stuff is to be taken at face value, whereas on this side of the pond we tend to expect humour. Flagging humour as such gets rid of the thing that makes it appealing, and the subtlety of it.
    As an American who is at all times entirely sincere, my head literally exploded upon reading this.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    As an American who is at all times entirely sincere, my head literally exploded upon reading this.
    My condolences to your widow.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    My condolences to your widow.
    Thanks. I'll pass them along.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    Sometimes playing open-string chords can be "harder" when a song has chords that can't be played as open-string chords:

    Take Honey-Pie by Paul McCartney; The chords are G7, Eb7, E7, A7, D7, G7, Eb7, E7

    I played this using 6th string root bar chord for G7, and A7, and 5th sting root chords for the Eb7, D7, E7. Very basis chords all in one area of the next (i.e. little wrist movement).

    My friend likes using open-string chords and didn't know how to play an EB7. I showed him the 5th root chord and also "advised" him that he should not use any open-string chords. Well we start playing and he uses open-string chords for the progression (expect for that Eb7) but loses the rhythm since when going from the open string G7, to the Eb7 (at the 6th fret), and back to the top of the neck to play E7.

    I "advised" him that he can use the same Eb7 voicing to play the E7 at the 7th fret. I get "yea, I know that" (and he does since we play Sweet Georgia Brown using such chords and no open-string chords). BUT he just doesn't do it;

    The "B" section causes even more problem since it uses a C# m7b5. I.e. his wrist is going up-and-down the next making the rhythm all choppy. I show him how the song can be play where the wrist never has to move up-or-down more than 2 frets. I get "I get it", but his muscle memory playing open-string chords is so strong he can't stick to those bar-chords and 5th strong root chords.

    Oh well.

    Sounds like something they could fix with an hours practice at home.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbeltrans
    I think a flat five (b5) is harder to change than a flat tire.

    Tony
    My production company..3Flats..has a a musical staff In Eb with a light image under it of an old 40's style car with only one inflated tire

  26. #75

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    Unfortunately, there are a lot of myths about music and the guitar is no exception.

    I remember when I was a kid in grade school and they gave us a test. The teacher would play two notes on the piano and ask the kid which note was higher or which was lower (1 or 2). There were kids who obviously didn't quite understand what it was they were supposed to do and would invariably get it wrong. They would be labelled as not having musical "talent" and from then on, would not even be given the chance to learn to play an instrument. My wife was apparently one of these kids.

    Talent seemed to be a big deal when I was growing up and the general idea seemed to be that some have it and some don't, so if you don't then it is best to just forget it. Every human has some form of natural musical ability and any person with normal facilities can learn to play an instrument. It may well be that not everybody can go pro, but everybody can enjoy playing. It is sad to consider how many people, well into adulthood, believe they have no musical ability whatsoever and are therefore robbed of the joy of playing music.

    Then, when I was within my first year of learning to pay guitar, I went into a shop to look at guitars. I picked u one and played some stuff up the fretboard. The sales guy asked how long I had been playing. When I told him, he said I shouldn't be playing up the fretboard yet, it was too soon.

    You aren't "supposed" to be playing anything but simple chords within the first three frets for the first couple of years of playing guitar. How silly is that? If you know the notes on the fretboard and can find chords around the fretboard, why not? There is no time limit on these things.

    When learning to play the piano, those formally taught are drilled on the idea that there are "hard keys" and "easy keys", based on the number of sharps or flats in the key signature. I didn't learn that silly notion, so for me all keys are equal. It really depends on how one learns.

    It would be no surprise to me that there are people who still believe that so-called "jazz chords" are hard to play, when in fact, they are often easy to play, depending on how you voice them. But the myths persist and rob people of the joy of playing music. The challenge is not so much being able to play chords, but knowing what to do with them. There is a lifetime of enjoyable exploration in that.

    Tony