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Hi, I've been playing mostly nylon string, and some steel string acoustic guitar for about 10 years.
I'm been asked to play electric guitar at at upcoming gig and am struggling to adapt my technique.
Barre chords are not usually an issue for me, but on the electric, the intonation goes sharp. And when I relax the grip to mute or change position, there's an audible fall in pitch which makes me think of bagpipes running out of air.
I think my fretting grip, particularly my index finger, is too tight, causing the strings to bend. I realise electric strings have different tension and shouldn't need so much pressure, but when I try to play with a lighter grip, I have a lot of trouble getting the strings to ring out.
Has anyone experienced the same? Any tips on transitioning to electric?
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08-18-2022 11:56 AM
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The same way you get to Carnegie Hall. Practice.
Also make sure the setup is good. High action, whether caused by high nut slots, improper truss rod adjustment, or a bridge too high, or all of these, makes it hard to play, and affects intonation.
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Going to a heavier gauge string set will make it more difficult to squeeze the chord sharp.
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The usual problem is lack of strength holding a barre with the first or third finger. The usual remedy on electrics is to roll the index toward the nut so that the side of the index takes the load, and similarly rolling the third toward the bridge to use to opposite side of that finger. Both of those makes it feel like much less pressure is needed to hold the barre.
I don't think classical nylon uses that form, but I'm not sure. How are you doing it?
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Thanks. I made a quick recording to illustrate the problem.
I realise I have a lot to work on here, but the intonation is bothering me the most at this stage (I've only had the guitar a few days).
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I had the same problem. I think it is caused by trying too hard. Putting less pressure on the fret made it go away: counter-intuitive but effective. After a while, it becomes natural.
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Couple of thoughts, in case you haven't already gone through this.
1. Make sure the guitar is intonated properly. If you don't know how to do that, the Fender website has a setup guide which is very clear and will apply to most guitars. Don't forget to set intonation with new strings.
In fact, even before you do that, check to make sure that each note plays at, or very near, the correct pitch with an electronic tuner. If the notes are off, you'll know that you have to do the setup as Fender recommends.
2. Try tuning to the notes at the 5th fret instead of the open strings.
3. Turn the amp up pretty loud. That may help reduce any tendency to squeeze too hard. Don't practice a solid body without amplification -- it can breed some bad habits.
4. If the frets are really high, it's easier to pull strings sharp, or so I think -- I'm actually not certain how much difference this makes.
5. A trapeze tailpiece rather than a stopbar can reduce the tendency to pull things sharp.
6. Setup requires a couple of simple tools and is very easy to do on most electrics.
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I did already check at the 12th fret and made a couple of small saddle adjustments, but good idea to take a closer look.
I kind of feel is more of a technique issue though - because of that drop in pitch when I release the barre.
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Don’t press down too hard, don’t worry about bending the finger slightly, and be super specific about positioning
practice how little pressure you can use before you get a buzzy sound. It may be less than you think.
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What gauge strings are you using? Can make a difference. What gauge do you use on your steel-string acoustic? I use .012 on both.
I used to use .009 on electric in my rock days, but now I would find those much too light for jazz chord work, in fact I would probably have intonation problems too. Most electrics come with light (e.g. .009) strings fitted, if that is the case with yours and you are going to be playing a lot of chord stuff, I would seriously consider changing them to something heavier like .012s.
From the video it seemed to me your fingers were pushing the 3rd and 4th strings out of line a bit, but that may be just the angle of the camera. I’m not sure the index finger is the main culprit, it is mainly doing the low bass notes, but I hear intonation issues more in the upper notes of each chord.
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It still has the factory strings which are advertised as .010 - .046. My acoustic is .011 - .052, but I also play a lot of bass which I'm sure affects my playing.
Indeed the G string is the most obvious. You really hear it on the dominant 7 chords with roots on the 6th string. It seems it's the combined pressure of the index-finger barre plus the fretted G string is what's pushing up the pitch of the third.
Maybe I need to learn to apply different levels of pressure per finger... keeping the index finger firm enough to hold the barre while being really light with the other fingers.
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First check out the tuning of every string at the frets you play, not only on the 12th feet. Bad setup, frets or nut can cause problems, poor tuners, old strings too.
From looking at the way you fret your barre chords, you can improve your grip by moving your fingers as close to the frets as you can get them. Also try turning your hand a bit so that the barre finger is closer to the fret at the high strings. This (positioning the fingers right next to the fret rather then between frets), can help with string bend, and will also lead to an effortless barre.
You can get away with poor positioning sometimes if the guitar has low action and the player has a very light grip, but it's generally worth it to work on it, as it affords better sound and easier playing.
Take a look at how Hekselman places the fingers below:
Last edited by Alter; 08-19-2022 at 06:48 AM.
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Literally never had this problem, even when learning. I'm not sure on the pressing too hard theory, ud need to press pretty hard on a bar chord to change the pitch. Technique looks ok on the vid to be fair.
My money is on the guitar being the issue, in fact I can see the strings shifting about as you change chords.
- it looks like it has a pretty short scale, meaning looser strings for a given pitch, higher string gauge will help.
- also id guess the action were pretty high...
Also I don't actually think it sounds too bad. I wouldn't have noticed much just from the vid if you hadn't qualified it before hand.
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Look at the video you posted; everyone is looking at your left hand, just look up the neck at the strings themselves. You are not pushing the strings down too hard, you are pushing the strings a little sideways as you make the chords. When you release them they move back. Different chords are getting different strings bent and released.
Try working on forming the chords by pressing the strings straight down to the frets without any sideways displacement. It may help to continue to make videos so you can watch afterward and see how you are doing with not bending. In the video there are two string movements, one is just the string's vertical movement to the fret. The camera angle to the plane of the strings will show that slight movement - don't worry about that. It is the other movement you want to look at.
When you make a barre chord, the vertical movement to the frets is the same for all the strings involved. That means if you watch around the 12th fret, all those strings should look parallel... the deviation from parallel is how to see the ones being bent. It looks like the low E, A, D are showing the most sideways motion, the B string some, the G string a little.
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Try tuning the G and B string at the 7th and 6th fret, I do this for my tele. This will put the open notes a little flat but the closed chords will sound better.
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This sounds totally feasible. I've tried taking this onboard and being very deliberate about avoiding sideways movement, and even experimenting by overcompensating in the other direction and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Also, to my ears, the worst offender is the G string, which is where you're seeing the least movement.
Originally Posted by pauln
Anyway, thank you - this seems like sound advice and I try to incorporate this into my technique.
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Yes, it's a copy of the Gibson Junior Special - so 24.75? / 628mm scale length. Originally Posted by KingKong
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So, P,
There's a simple cure and answer. A CG has a straight fingerboard. And EG has a slightly canted fingerboard. So, here's your solution:
1. Be certain that your index finger is as close to the fret as possible since as you move towards
the headstock of the guitar(away from the fret) you need greater pressure to depress the
strings.
2. Depending on your size of hands, you must adjust where the tip of your index finger lays
in relation to the end of the fretboard(closest to you). You need to experiment with lateral
finger movement, play, and see where you get the best results. The more the tip of your
index finger lays outside the neck(generally), the more pressure you need for a clean
sound.
3. If you keep your index finger too flat on the neck, it takes more pressure than if you slightly
roll your finger towards the headstock.
4. Finally, practice the different positions until you find your sweet spot. Then, do finger
building exercises for greater strength. Never overdo these exercises since they can cause
pain and potential damage.
If your guitar has fresh strings and is accurately tuned, it's your hand dynamics that are off the mark.
I am a hybrid player and switch between CG and EG regularly and you need to adjust for the instrument. So, one last secret for clean barre chords(CG and EG): If you play them appregiated, slightly roll/cant your index finger back and forth(tip to base) as you play the notes and you'll never have a weak spot or muted note. If you play the chord in unison, you must use good technique, described above, and muscle-building exercises to accomplish your goal. Good luck.
Marinero
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Big strings
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I was playing acoustic for many years and then got a strat. Barre chords out of tune, just like you.
All I can offer is the consolation that the problem is long gone, and will be for you too. Here are some things I did.
1. You need to listen very closely and try to fret the chords as lightly as possible. Start by fretting them too light, then increase pressure just up to the point when the sound is clean.
2. Don't bother pushing with the barre on the strings that aren't playing at the moment or are fretted by some finger in front of the barre. Focus your barre on the necessary strings only.
3. Practice full chord vibrato and find the position where it's in tune.
4. The most important one: when playing electric guitar, most songs don't require you to play full barre voicings. Typically you play chord fragments, even if it looks like you have a barre going. Find partial voicings and switch between them. Everyone does this, from Hendrix to Metheny.
5. Focus on the shape of your finger and roll/curve it slightly to match it to the shape of the fingerboard. Also, place it such that the joints and the soft parts maximize the contact... the last point is hard to explain but adjusting your barre up or down a millimeter can make a huge difference.
Best of luck!
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If there aren't any of the mentioned intonation, nut height etc issues, you probably need to go up at least one gauge: the 11s you are used to on a presumably 25.5" scale acoustic will have proportionately more tension, plus a wound 3rd string. The plain 3rd in the set on that electric is likely not helping things.
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A few suggestions that may shortcut you to a solution:
- Put on a new set of good-quality strings. The strings installed at the factory are generally cheap and may have any number of problems that hamper intonation. The new strings don't have to be uber expensive; Ernie Ball or D'Addario or any number of name brands are fine. Sometimes, even expensive strings are bad out of the box but this is rare. A new set of Ernies or D'Ads could make a world of difference.
- Use a good electronic tuner to tune up before you play. If the guitar is not in tune before you start playing, your mechanical technique will have to compensate for that. This can ingrain bad habits that you'll have to undo later; if the initial tuning is bad enough, you just won't be able to compensate for it. There's a good thread on this forum about tuner phone apps, including recommendations to several freebies online. At $9.99 you can't go wrong with the Peterson iStrobosoft on your phone. There's also another thread about clip-on tuners and still another one about tuners in general. Also several older threads if you search.
- Take the guitar to a qualified luthier for a setup. For around $50 + the price of a new set of strings, the luthier will spot and fix any problems that you just don't have the experience to solve. It'll all be done in a half-hour.
With strings, intonation, action, and tuning eliminated as sources of problems, you can then concentrate on technique if there is still a problem.
HTH
SJ
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Peter, you must have read my mind as I ordered a set of Daddario EXL115Ws yesterday. Will report back about how I get on with those. Originally Posted by Peter C
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Cool, if you're not used to electric guitar setups, bear in mind that the wound 3rd will need intonating at the bridge (move the saddle backwards, IIRC!) and if the pole pieces in the pickups are height adjustable, raise that string's screws as output will be lower.
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There's too much angle in your barre finger. When the base of your finger is that far from the fret, the tension is lower than when you're close to the fret and you press down further. Bring your elbow in and it will pull your index finger into a straighter angle and then barre closer to the fret. Originally Posted by PatTheDog
Last edited by Jim Soloway; 08-28-2022 at 10:13 AM.
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