The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi everyone, forgive me if I should have posted this in maybe the Theory section, as I couldn't decide.

    But to my question: I've owned this book for a while, and initially when I got it I hated it because I wanted a "proper" method book. However, since then and getting lessons from various teachers over the years, I've REALLY started to appreciate it. I think my experience with teachers has shown that (at least for me) there's a million different ways to play chords/scales/arpeggios, visualize the fretboard, improvise etc, and all are valid, it's just certain ways will just "click" for a student...and that's not even to say that one particular method for let's say fretboard visualization will be what works for the student, it might be more a case of :

    "How do you visualize the fretbaord/improvise"?
    "Yes".

    Basically where it's kinda just all there- your personal way you combine all the various stuff you've learned or picked up. I've just really been on a kick of "figure out what works best for you" kind of idea, and I think really every great player out there has done that to some extent-probably mostly out of necessity as anyone over the age of 35 or so would not have had the internet and all information/methods basically a click away, so some self-figuring out was necessary. I think a lot of people. myself included, often don't really want to do the real work of taking what you learn and exploring with the idea, instead doing more of a "my teacher assigned me these chords to learn so I'll try to memorize them and that's that".

    So I'm sure you can see, that in a sense with that idea in mind the Advancing Guitarist is pretty much the "Bible" of creating one's own method. I'm just curious though, considering it came out in the 80s (which I do understand is relatively young in terms of a "method"), in your opinion has their been any form of instructional material that is now on par or perhaps even surpassed it? I think the flaw of today's world is there is SO Much out there it would be easy to miss out on worthwhile instruction.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm sure it doesn't work for everybody, but I will say that the Advancing Guitarist is one of very few instructional books I've ever just read for pleasure.

    Jim Hall's books fall into this category too.

  4. #3

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    I don’t see it as a method. A method to me is something like the Leavitt books. AG is more of a sourcebook, I would say.

    Doesn’t he say that in the introduction?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    I don’t see it as a method. A method to me is something like the Leavitt books. AG is more of a sourcebook, I would say.

    Doesn’t he say that in the introduction?
    well yes, it's most definitely not a method if someone wants to have a step-by-step approach, I just meant it's kinda the ultimate "you can figure out your own method" book because it really has everything in a sense...In my opinion if one knows the basics aka they know the different kinds of triads, arpeggios, scales, theory all from a more academic way (where you don't even need an instrument to learn) this covers pretty much all the ways you can translate it to actual music making on guitar.

  6. #5

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    Recent books I liked…

    im not a book person really. Here are some jazz books I either liked the look of or actually got something from, all more recent than the 80s. Not all are guitar related, but I don’t really care about that so much.

    - Roni Ben Hur - Talk Jazz Guitar
    definitive guide to Barry Harris style line construction on guitar, which is the way I do the bebop thing

    - Vic Juris - Modern Chords
    similar to the Goodrick voice leading almanacs in that you can sum up what’s in it on the back of an envelope but the practicing of these things will take years. I don’t in fact like this approach to harmony very much (too parallel), but it’s a good exercise for fretboard mapping.

    - The Guitarists Introduction to Jazz - Randy Vincent - a very good up to date honest to god method for jazz guitar

    - A Jazz Life - John Klopotowski
    Changed my life. Describes the teaching of Warne Marsh and the author’s relationship with him

    - Forward Motion - Hal Galper
    Also changes my life. Back of an envelope stuff again, but very far reaching

  7. #6

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    I remember when I was on the triad part of the book, there is this page full of triad to play on the instrument, "ok let's move the voices closely and try with different voicing", I wrote all the triads , the voices moving, and as I start to play one triad and another and another trying to stay in the clever finger zone, I felt like "what ? wow" "this is cool and I never thought like this before when comping for example"...

    I remember recording the modal patterns and play along to improve my modal sounds while improvising on the vamp.

    And the last pages with great advice inside.

    But Mick Goodrick told us in the book it's a "do it yourself book" .


  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jco5055
    well yes, it's most definitely not a method if someone wants to have a step-by-step approach, I just meant it's kinda the ultimate "you can figure out your own method" book because it really has everything in a sense...In my opinion if one knows the basics aka they know the different kinds of triads, arpeggios, scales, theory all from a more academic way (where you don't even need an instrument to learn) this covers pretty much all the ways you can translate it to actual music making on guitar.
    I’m not sure I agree exactly. There’s other things out there that give you more of an obvious ‘toolbox’ for going from scales etc to music (Barry Harris is fantastic for that in a bebop context for example, he tells you exactly what to practice lol, none of your airy fairy out of the box hippy stuff there), but it is a rich source of ideas and practice strategies.

    That said in practice I rarely use it. Not sure why. Maybe I have enough rabbit holes to explore for now?

    Probably time for a re read….

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Recent books I liked…

    im not a book person really. Here are some jazz books I either liked the look of or actually got something from, all more recent than the 80s. Not all are guitar related, but I don’t really care about that so much.

    - Roni Ben Hur - Talk Jazz Guitar
    definitive guide to Barry Harris style line construction on guitar, which is the way I do the bebop thing

    - Vic Juris - Modern Chords
    similar to the Goodrick voice leading almanacs in that you can sum up what’s in it on the back of an envelope but the practicing of these things will take years. I don’t in fact like this approach to harmony very much (too parallel), but it’s a good exercise for fretboard mapping.

    - The Guitarists Introduction to Jazz - Randy Vincent - a very good up to date honest to god method for jazz guitar

    - A Jazz Life - John Klopotowski
    Changed my life. Describes the teaching of Warne Marsh and the author’s relationship with him

    - Forward Motion - Hal Galper
    Also changes my life. Back of an envelope stuff again, but very far reaching
    I've actually been very interested in that book, I've debated if I shouldn't work through it just to feel 100% satisfied I'm advanced enough to use The Advancing Guitarist to it's full potential.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jco5055
    I've actually been very interested in that book, I've debated if I shouldn't work through it just to feel 100% satisfied I'm advanced enough to use The Advancing Guitarist to it's full potential.
    This might seem like a silly question but - can you play jazz?

    (No music student humble bs - just a straight yes or no, would you be comfortable playing a standards gig with local professional musicians?)

    If yes, I think MG is great next step stuff. Any of his books. My opinion is all that Berklee syllabus stuff - and he basically wrote the Berklee jazz guitar syllabus apparently - functions best when you can already play. Think about the players he taught - they were already gigging by the time they got to the school.

    (It’s also not everything. It’s not the material you need if you want to dive deep into real bebop, for instance. It’s the Berklee sound, which underpins most contemporary jazz guitar, but there are also roads less taken.)

    If not, it’s in my opinion the Randy Vincent is a very good book to use but really it’s about the listening and playing of course, not just a syllabus, however good. (Randy also has some other interesting looking books out that would suit a more advanced player but I haven’t checked them out yet.)

    (It’s not how I learned btw. But it contains all the stuff I learned and would consider solid basics.)

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    This might seem like a silly question but - can you play jazz?

    (No music student humble bs - just a straight yes or no, would you be comfortable playing a standards gig with local professional musicians?)

    If yes, I think MG is great next step stuff. Any of his books. My opinion is all that Berklee syllabus stuff - and he basically wrote the Berklee jazz guitar syllabus apparently - functions best when you can already play. Think about the players he taught - they were already gigging by the time they got to the school.

    (It’s also not everything. It’s not the material you need if you want to dive deep into real bebop, for instance. It’s the Berklee sound, which underpins most contemporary jazz guitar, but there are also roads less taken.)

    If not, it’s in my opinion the Randy Vincent is a very good book to use but really it’s about the listening and playing of course, not just a syllabus, however good. (Randy also has some other interesting looking books out that would suit a more advanced player but I haven’t checked them out yet.)

    (It’s not how I learned btw. But it contains all the stuff I learned and would consider solid basics.)
    Yeah, I'd lean towards no for myself playing Jazz...like many I have a rock background, so being able to comp as opposed to learning verbatim riffs and stuff was a completely new thing. I've learned some standards with my teacher, and come up with comping/chord substitutions strategy for these songs, but it's still an issue where without my teacher's instruction I'd at best be able to play the basic 7th chords and then maybe substitute minor 9ths for minor 7ths etc.

    So basically I can manage somewhat with TAG since it's not specfically jazz, but since no one would recommend a complete beginner who doesn't even know what a triad or major scale is to start with TAG as opposed to some structure, I feel like I still in a sense could benefit in being able to say without a doubt I have the absolute basics for Jazz down first.

  12. #11

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    K
    Quote Originally Posted by jco5055
    Yeah, I'd lean towards no for myself playing Jazz...like many I have a rock background, so being able to comp as opposed to learning verbatim riffs and stuff was a completely new thing. I've learned some standards with my teacher, and come up with comping/chord substitutions strategy for these songs, but it's still an issue where without my teacher's instruction I'd at best be able to play the basic 7th chords and then maybe substitute minor 9ths for minor 7ths etc.

    So basically I can manage somewhat with TAG since it's not specfically jazz, but since no one would recommend a complete beginner who doesn't even know what a triad or major scale is to start with TAG as opposed to some structure, I feel like I still in a sense could benefit in being able to say without a doubt I have the absolute basics for Jazz down first.
    Yeah it did occur to me that maybe you want to play prog originals or something in which case TAG would probably still be relevant. Which to me kind of reinforces the idea that what Mick is teaching is not necessarily ‘jazz’

    (and yes I’m of the unfashionable sentiment that jazz, as a specific type of music with a proud history and clear lineage, can actually be a noun and not just a process or whatever. There is such a thing as a bebop lick.)

    jazz sometimes gets conflated with music theory, improvisation, harmony, fretboard mapping and so on. For me those things are part of jazz education but have relevance outside the music, and are useful to any guitarist, not just jazz players.

    My main interest as a teacher and … maybe … as a player (tbh I have no idea these days) is straightahead jazz so my perceptions are affected by that lens.

    But yeah if you want to learn jazz, it’s those sorts of basic skills. Transcribe a few solos, mine them for ii V licks, learn to comp basic shell voicings, learn a few dozen standards etc and play with other people a lot. That sort of thing. There’s a lot of distractions out there. I think Randy’s book would be an excellent companion to that type of work.

  13. #12

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    Learning to play jazz is as divided and diverse as the individuals to set about studies and practice. Learning to improvise is a very complex process, multi layered and full of individual pitfalls. Learning to become a creative thinker can be coincidental but not necessarily the same thing.
    Advancing Guitarist is one man's take on an extremely broad, insightful and human based slice on what goes into mastery of a creative mindset; specifically improvisational guitar.

    Strange as it seems, there are people who want to learn "jazz" but they don't want to learn the lifetime endeavour of becoming a person who creates new horizons as easily as they create new solos.
    A lot of people just want to get around the changes convincingly, or play a beautiful chord solo, or show up at a jam, engage fully and be proud of their solo. To these valid and noble ends, The Advancing Guitarist is both more scope and falls short on quicker more concrete objectives.
    I think this is why it's such a great supplemental resource, and not as easy to sell as a primary resource for the concrete thinker who wants the satisfying skills of a guitarist without the nebulous questions of "Just how far does the universe go?"

    In the years since he wrote TAG, he has continued to uncover new harmonic and creative frontiers so now non triadic harmony, art, drawing and painting and the processing methodologies of right and left brain thinking are also part of this world between heav'n and earth.
    But all of that DNA is in there in that one book, and it's constantly alluded to in anecdotes and humour.

    It's a kind of manual on thinking creatively but there's an extremely open ended approach... a life's journey approach.
    I will say as a glimpse into the diversity of his self-make strategy, he personally does not consider transcribing other people's solos as a requirement to being a creative thinker. It's an attitude. He DOES consider thoroughly knowing the toolset of the masters who came before. His contention being, know what they knew and do it yourself.

    That is not for everyone. But one only needs to look at the players who love and live by that book to see the possibilities of a comprehensive toolset linked with a limitless creative attitude. Players speak for the book, he just puts a lot of tools in one place, doesn't hold back and lets a certain type of player discover their own way to ask questions. Answers are there to be found.

  14. #13

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    That book is the only thing I've been working on recentedly. So far having done 4 keys for the major scale and its modes (ALL Possible fingerings, single string, double string, open position, 12 positions, then the whole neck) I'm still pushing through. It takes forever but its worth it. For the chords section I've tuned my Guitar to major thirds just to breeze through it

  15. #14

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    It's a welcome addition to method books: a master's look, if you will. I have carried both the Unitar and "realm of the electric ice-skating ring" memes for many years, having spent time and taken a lesson with Mick. I think he supplied all the tools you need to get where you want to go, or at least have a thoughtful journey. He's never denigrated a method book, and was, in fact, a great fan of Bill Leavitt, as I am. It's hard to go wrong with those two approaches to start with.

  16. #15

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    I don't think of it as a 'method book' as far as it being a direct path to somewhere, it functions as more of an indirect path to anywhere and everywhere one might choose to go in exploring the guitar. I'm sure there are other helpful method and reference books that have been written since, but for what it is I can't see anything coming along that's 'better' for decades, if not centuries...

    Like some others here, I've been lucky to study with Mick. Keep the forum posted on what parts of the book youre working with, folks will be happy to help if they can. Best wishes for your music!

    PK

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Recent books I liked…

    im not a book person really. Here are some jazz books I either liked the look of or actually got something from, all more recent than the 80s. Not all are guitar related, but I don’t really care about that so much.

    - Roni Ben Hur - Talk Jazz Guitar
    definitive guide to Barry Harris style line construction on guitar, which is the way I do the bebop thing

    - Vic Juris - Modern Chords
    similar to the Goodrick voice leading almanacs in that you can sum up what’s in it on the back of an envelope but the practicing of these things will take years. I don’t in fact like this approach to harmony very much (too parallel), but it’s a good exercise for fretboard mapping.

    - The Guitarists Introduction to Jazz - Randy Vincent - a very good up to date honest to god method for jazz guitar

    - A Jazz Life - John Klopotowski
    Changed my life. Describes the teaching of Warne Marsh and the author’s relationship with him

    - Forward Motion - Hal Galper
    Also changes my life. Back of an envelope stuff again, but very far reaching
    I exchanged emails with John K., the author of A Jazz Life. The book was available on his website to read for free, which I did.
    I studied composition in school with the same teacher he studied with privately. One time i asked the teacher what he thought about jazz.
    His reply was, "I don't. I don't think about jazz."

  18. #17

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    Jo Damian is another teacher and player whose books are similar, great off the grid approaches, that are targeted on individuality and creativity. He's perhaps the greatest I've come across at exploring that.

    Jon Damian - Berklee Press

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    Jo Damian is another teacher and player whose books are similar, great off the grid approaches, that are targeted on individuality and creativity. He's perhaps the greatest I've come across at exploring that.

    Jon Damian - Berklee Press
    For decades, Jon and Mick were seen as the foundational teachers and 'must study with' presences at Berklee. Virtually anybody who wanted to get a comprehensive education based on their own individual potential knew they had to sign up with those guys. As a matter of fact, there was a triumvirate that formed the pillar and peak of Berklee instructors: Mick and Jon for conceptually adventurous players, and Mick and Tim Miller for those who concentrated on technical excellence. I could tell a lot about a student by the choice of teachers.
    Mick and Jon retired three years ago, and it ended an era of their knowledge punctuated by the generations that drew the mainstays of their playing approaches from them.
    I loved Jon's classes. It was the common ground for some of the most conceptually and artistically imaginative musicians in the school. Things like creating collective rhythmic compositions to the movement of pedestrians on Boylston Street three floors down, to using story narrative to improvise an improvisational soundtrack through dramatic arc and listening.
    Jon really knew the things that were essential and he planted so many seeds of ideas and sounds.
    He just put out an conceptual treasure in the form of a funky graphic novel called Welcome to Harmonyville 01625. Yeah, he's also really funny. One of the warmest and most challenging teachers I'd ever studied with.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    His reply was, "I don't. I don't think about jazz."
    That is a thoughtful statement that can only have meaning by being informed by a lot of thinking.

  21. #20

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    Jon Damian in his books presents a palette chart, codifying all 3 note harmonic structures derived from a diatonic scale. It is a beautiful graphic realization that shows 6 chord families in close and open inversions.
    This overlaps strongly with Mick Goodrick's quest to document all 3 and 4 note scale derived structures and then voice lead them.

  22. #21

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    Indeed Goodrick and Damian were the "out" teachers for decades in Berklee (amongst other great ones). But there were also John Thomas and Richie Hart, the "jazz" jazz ones! A good thing is, you could study with all of them!

  23. #22

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    I love The Advancing Guitarist. I bought it when it first came out based solely on the mysterious guru legend presented in interviews of other jazz guitarists around the late ‘70s/early ‘80s, and the one LP he put out for ECM, “In Pas(s)ing” (still one of my favorite albums). I found the book disconcerting, yet cleverly funny, at first, but over time much of my conception of improvisation, comping, chord voicing, and composition had its roots in working out Mick’s Yoda-like suggestions in TAG.

    That said, I don’t consider TAG a method book.

    For me, the ultimate method book has been Leavitt’s Modern Method, supplemented with his two reading books, his classical pieces arranged for plectrum guitar, and the melodic rhythms book. These together form a progressive technical method for playing plectrum guitar and reading guitar music. Some complain that the music in Leavitt’s books has little to do with jazz, but neither do the Arban and Klosé methods, yet they are still the standard texts for learning to play the trumpet and clarinet, regardless of what style of music you may end up playing. I see Leavitt’s books as providing plectrum guitarists with a similar comprehensive and progressive method.

    I see Mick’s books rather as a set of conceptual signposts pointing to less obvious approaches to harmony and improvisation. I wouldn’t trade what I learned from working out just a few of the ideas in TAG and the Mr. Goodchord books, but I also value Leavitt’s Method for providing me with a solid foundation of guitar technique and music reading skills.

  24. #23

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    I find Leavitt’s reading books fantastically unrewarding on a musical level, but all of his books are really well thought out. Not a composer- he should have found one to write rewarding music and dealt with the technicalities at which he was so brilliant.

    i understand for some this is not a deal breaker - it’s just reading material - and more power to you. It’s just never something I find myself reaching for.

    The graded reading book I do really like is Adam Levy’s. Every musical example is fun, challenging, pedagogical and rewarding on every level. Only problem is the bloody book is too short. More please Adam!

  25. #24

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    I've purchased too many books over the years. I've curbed my habit somewhat* I've sold many of these books including the one in this thread title. These days I tend to keep only song books. I also have a few of the Berklee Press jazz guitar books and the one on re-harmonization. I find the Berklee Press books to be well done. The Goodrick book gets you thinking.

    For me working on songs is the most benefit to me. I get a lead sheet and work on memorizing the changes and the melody. I will attempt a chord melody or at least some type of "solo" version. The end result being I am playing jazz guitar sort of. This is my own "method".

    I just bought Jim Hall's Exploring Jazz Guitar and am enjoying it...bits of sage advice along with some in depth analysis of several of his tunes. I also like Garrison Fewell's Melodic Improv book and probably got more out of that book then any other.

  26. #25

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    I just realized "The Realm of the Electric Ice-Skating Rink" makes perfect sense in conjunction with Garrison Fewell's Melodic Improv Book. When its time to solo the whole neck you'll be gliding all over thanks to the chord shapes. Definitedly look into the book while you can