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Exactly!
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Also, a lot of tunes rely on the various effects and instrumentation to make such melodies work. Without all that went into the original recording, much of it falls flat. It has been mentioned in this thread that we tend to associate a given pop tune with a specific recording, while the Great American Songbook has many performers, making those tunes fit into a wide variety of settings. Unfortunately, with a number of pop, especially rock, tunes, there are effects in the original recording that make the tune what it is, since it doesn't stand alone on its lyrics and/or harmonic structure.
Since not all pop tunes suffer this problem it is a matter of carefully picking those tunes that will work in a more jazz-oriented setting. The process is similar to a band selecting tunes for its repertoire based on what works for that particular combination of instruments, players, and skill level.
Tony
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04-05-2022 04:34 PM
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Well yeah. This is partly why I would want to do this anyway - i.e. to make them more interesting Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Yes, not something you can, nor would want to, do to every song. Originally Posted by tbeltrans
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So instead of spending time and energy on rehashing and tarting up "uninteresting" pop tunes, why not just write your own sh*t from the beginning?
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Because it's not the same thing, some people like to hear familiar tunes done differently, and it should not be either/or anyway. Originally Posted by Peter C
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corny humour aside, i think Lucas Brar is great at this:
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Ah, is this the motivation behind this thread -- to play tunes people would recognize? Originally Posted by j4zz
Because it's not the same thing, some people like to hear familiar tunes done differently, and it should not be either/or anyway.
If you have gigs with a singer, then "maybe;" if you are playing solo guitar or with an instrumental jazz combo, then don't bother (unless you just like the song). IME, only sophisticated, musician audiences in a "concert" setting (so they're listening) -- rather than "background music at a club/bar" -- will hear and say, "Oh, cool -- Nirvana!" Whether you play an instrumental version of Billie Eilish or the Beatles, most civilians (non-musicians) will not "hear" this, because they tend to hook onto the singer/lyrics, and not the notes/chord progression. You can play an Eilish tune, and right afterwards someone may say, "Hey, can you play something current?"
Again, if you want to have fun with arranging modern tunes, go for it! Don't expect people to notice, though ... (except us, so please post vids when you record them!)
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Adam Neely covered a lot of reharmonization techniques in this video:
I think that Video might be helpful to you. It certainly was for me!
Paul
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Who among us knows any of these tunes?
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To turn pop into jazz properly you have to know what jazz is... but, as we know, nobody knows what jazz is
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However, eminent jazz musicians know exactly what jazz is and what pop is.
Superb jazz versions of great pop songs arranged by Herbie Hancock - that's it.
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All jazz musicians / young old ones / have some pop songs in their repertoire ... Originally Posted by Peter C
why?
Because the audience loves it.
Pop music can also be good and can inspire.
e.g. "Fragile" song written by Sting.
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Current pop? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
The trash-commercial covers valuable things, as long as there is still something of value.
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I don’t hear current pop tunes very often, but when I do, they all seem to use the same 3 or 4 notes from the pentatonic scale (usually sung by auto-tuned vocals) over the same kind of identikit computerised backing.
It’s no surprise they all keep making plagiarism claims against each other, in fact I believe this was essentially the basis of Ed Sheeran’s defence in his latest trial.
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Seek and ye shall find. Who would have thought. Impressive! Not sure this really a pop song though.
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Seek and ye shall find. Who would have thought. Impressive! Not sure this really a pop song though. Smoke on the Water that is.
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Probably the best way is simply do not.
Stephane Grappelly tried it with Pink Floyd, and turned out so diasaster, the recording never went out. There was a so huge stylistic incompatibility, the result was tasteless and pathetic.
When I was teenager, my (jazz) guitar teacher said (he was 25?), "impovising on a Beatles song, is like making love with an old lady". Although this statement is obviosly not PC, but it was in the 80s we were young, seeing teenage girls, so you get the point. One for sure, improvising on a Beatles song is very hard, if not impossible, and inappropriate :-)
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It obviously depends on the pop song. Bubblegum kiddie stuff is probably not what we're talking about; the song would have to worth doing. I mean, they've already done songs by the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Bob Dylan... it goes on.
I don't listen to them but I should think some of Adele's melodies are pretty jazzable. Ed Sheeran would probably qualify easily too. That's modern enough, isn't it?
I might be missing something but I'm not sure what the issue is here, there's a ton of songs that good jazzers can tackle... aren't there?
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You have to look at what carries the tune. It might be the melody, but it might also be the groove, or a rhythmic pattern etc, and you have to find a way to play them.
But a good start is to just practice playing the melody along with the chord roots. Then maybe add some simple voicings when you can and the melody permits it. I see this as in any normal jazz tune, you just try to orchestrate a song's melody.
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Absolutely. I know Brad Mehldau tries his hand at lots of stuff.
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Brad has a remarkable ability to pick interesting modern pop/rock tunes to cover. Originally Posted by ragman1
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However, there are jazz musicians who play with pop stars. Originally Posted by Gabor
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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For some guitar examples of a jazz-oriented musician handling a variety of pop tunes, check out Jake Reichbart, who also shows up in these forums:
Jake Reichbart - YouTube
DVDs/downloadable guitar lessons
Tony
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But the OP's question was really about converting pop songs to 'jazz', which is actually quite interesting. There's a vid upthread with Brad Mehldau playing Beatles and others' tunes. You'll notice he doesn't really change them much. Brad is a highly technically skilled jazz player - I've heard him do some extraordinary stuff - but he doesn't really apply it much to those tunes.
And if one thinks about it there's no real need to do so, he simply plays them very fluently. The other guy in the vids, Lucas Brar, does change them into recognisable jazz swing with idiomatic changes, and all that. But it's amusing, it's a gimmick, it's a bit of fun.
So I'm wondering what the OP actually wants to do. Does he want to produce a gimmick or somehow, in his mind at least, bring more interest to the original songs? Or, forgive me, perhaps he doesn't know, it's just a notion he's got?
I think he should probably stick to playing jazz with jazz material. To do that is difficult enough rather than forcing a change of style on other kinds of tunes. Nothing wrong with that, but to do it seriously requires a high level of skill (Jacques Loussier comes to mind). It's not just a matter of changing your majors into M7's!
Last edited by ragman1; 04-13-2022 at 02:08 PM.
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