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Originally Posted by Litterick
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01-30-2023 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
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So isn't the whole question a bit like: "Why does a piano have black keys rather than all white?"
For me, it's about navigation. HOW you navigate (Dead reckoning, triangulation, sun and moon, GPS, etc.) is up to you. How WELL you navigate is in the eyes of the beholder. Done.
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Old thread, I know. But I just started learning the guitar and was wondering what those dot positions are about. I was hoping they could help me to learn the notes on the fretboard so I started to think about what those dots could mean.
Dots on 3,5,7,10 would be a minor pentatonic on the given string which could make sense. But the longer I stare at them I like the symmetry of 3,5,7,9.
Not only visually it's appealing to me but also when I look at the circle of fifths and take an open string as the "tonal center" the dots at 3,5,7,9 seem to have a kind of logic to them.
Granted the open A string is the "tonal center" the dot at the 3rd fret would be the c, 5th fret the d, 7th fret the e, 9th fret the f# which surrounds the A as the "tonal center" nicely. Imagine there would be dots at the 1st fret (which seems to be true for some guitars) 11th and 13th and you can "walk around" the circle of fifth in whole steps (skipping every other perfect 5) and always play a "dotted" note.
One can also move from the c at the 3rd fret on the A string down to the g on the E string, up to the d on the A string, then down to the a on the E string and so on. By doing that I alwas play a "dotted" note and play the notes from the circle of fifths in the correct order. A dot at the 10th fret would brake this. Maybe dots at 2,4,6,8,10 would have been a better solution? But this works for the strings 3-6 and 1-2 as a pair. The 3rd between the g and b string brakes this logic as well but the fact that the guitar is tuned in Em pentatonic is also quite nice (and I like an Em chord with open strings!).
I don't think the "tonal center" thing is intended (it just happens to be like that) but visually I like it I try to think of the dots as a representation of every 2nd circle of fifth interval (whole note scale) with the non dotted positions as the missing intervals in between.
This all could be BS but maybe it helps me to learn to navigate the fretboard some day
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On a bass guitar it's much more easier.
EADG 0000
GDAE 3579
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I think the main reason to have markers on the fretboard itself is to make it easier for others to see what you are playing. That'd be a good explanation why you don't find them on classical guitars.
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I'm more a visual player, so I always looked at the markers the same as landmarks or whatever when driving so you know which way to go. When I started playing classical guitar a few years ago, i would be playing lead over the ebony board, get lost, and drive right off the cliff. In this case, playing the wrong flippin notes. So I got the sticker markers and put one on the 5th,7th and 9th. No more getting lost. Well mostly.
Last edited by Brian859; 01-06-2024 at 05:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Brian859
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Classicals usually do have side-markers AFAIK. My Eastman has them, but they're either too small or I wasn't used to the parallax associated with holding the instrument at a roughly 45° angle. Whatever the reason, I often played a fret too low or to high during big jumps or placing a note "out of the blue" under visual control. That became a problem when I worked a piece with lots of harmonics (which still defy my mental fretboard map) so I made some markers myself. Problem solved.
But I continue to work on not having to look all the time because I know that makes me sloppy (I tend to aim for the midpoint between the frets and can't seem to unlearn that ... maybe that's also thanks to the dots??!)
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Originally Posted by rlrhett
That's all there is to it (for me, in practical terms).
I'll play/have played a neck with no position markers, of course it's possible, and I don't look at the fretboard all the time, still, I prefer one that has them (I sometimes "miss the target" even with markers!)
On the other hand, I do admire players who don't need them. Someone, earlier in the thread, mentioned practicing in the dark in order to develop a sense of direction beyond the visual... sounds like a good idea... and of course, if I think of amazing players such as pianist Tete Montoliu (who was blind, born blind if I'm not mistaken) well...
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"Classical guitarists don't need position markers"
Well, classical guitarists usually keep their eyes firmly on the score in front of them
RIP Nick Gravenites
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