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  1. #1

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    Hi !

    I've played with a looper for four months, I would like to know your opinion about it.



    - Alone Together 0:05
    - Cantaloupe Island 6:38
    - Work Song 13:18
    - The Days Of Wine And Roses 18:30
    - Summertime 24:47
    - All The Things You Are 29:55
    - Softly As In A Morning Sunrise 34:09

    I'm sorry, it was so cold that the guitar couldn't stay really in tune, some people came to talk to me, to know how I was, if I wanted to drink or eat something, or only to tell me it was too loud.
    So you won't see all the gig.

    Give me your opinion about it (feedback).

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I guess you're asking for comments about the looper?

    I've been thinking about getting one. So, while taking a solo in a band situation, I could actually do a few layers. But, I couldn't figure out exactly how to nail the time so that the repeats wouldn't screw up the group. Is there a way to do that?

    As far as this particular application, the idea is to do a bass line and chord stab chorus, then repeat that while you play the head and take a solo?

    So, the logical comparison would be to just bringing backing tracks, like Aebersold or similar, or so it seems to me. I don't have that bass and chord stab thing worked out as well as you, so I'd lean toward backing tracks for that reason, if no other.

    But, from the point of view of the audience, do they care if the gig is live in the sense that everything they hear is from that gig and not a prerecorded track? Maybe in a concert? Ed Sheeran does it in his shows, really well, and I certainly accept that as live performance. But, maybe it's not a problem in a background gig where just playing along with a backing track would be fine.

    If I had to start doing solo gigs, I'd probably go with backing tracks, but I also might dust off my guitar synth. Then, I could at least be playing some different sounds.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    I've played with a looper for four months, I would like to know your opinion about it.
    I had a Boss RC30 Loop Station for several years and used it exactly the way you do, LS - but I used it along with my Roland synth. I built up a band from scratch, starting with a bass line, adding rhythm guitar, keyboard, and sometimes a horn solo or even a little horn section for fills. Building the backing loops took several minutes (exactly as you're doing), after which I'd play a head and a solo or two over it all. It was fun and a good way to improve my timing, but I only used it for a few tunes per solo gig at the most. It's a legitimate way to gig and I have no problem with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I've been thinking about getting one. So, while taking a solo in a band situation, I could actually do a few layers. But, I couldn't figure out exactly how to nail the time so that the repeats wouldn't screw up the group. Is there a way to do that?
    That depends on the group and how easy your loops are to follow. I did it with a wonderful bass player, and we managed to stay right on time with it for the most part - but it's hard to do well, and it gets harder as your loops become more complex. The more players you have in the band, the less likely the group is to stay together as precisely as it needs to be. I finally sold my RC30 because it was more trouble than pleasure.

    If you're talking about adding additional voices to your solos like Les Paul used to do, there are loopers with tempo detectors that will set a delay to the tempo of your playing so you can play over it on the second pass. But, once again, the entire band has to be playing tightly together and at a very steady tempo to avoid being at least a tiny bit out of synch with the device. If you want multipart harmony for your solos, there are pedals that will add additional voices at intervals in real time.

    When all was said and done, in my hands I far prefer the guitar by itself as a solo instrument or in a band. I still use my Roland synth every once in a while, but I removed the pickups from all but one of my guitars.

  5. #4

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    @Lionel, thanks for posting - nice playing, and congrats on having gigs!

    Depending on the looper's memory, if you can store tracks before hand, I'd recommend that rather than playing/recording the whole form at the gig, and then soloing over it. I agree with RP, too, that for "background" music gigs, the audience/attendees don't really mind a looper/recording, so go for it!

  6. #5

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    When doing it like that, your "chords" run should be cool to listen too. Cant go easy there in this case. Because 32 measures is a LOT. Something has to happen.

  7. #6

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    Hi !

    Thanks for your advice.
    I prefer live playing but programming could be very useful if I think of playing the saxophone.

    About chords, I want to try the seven string guitar.

    I am sure it won't sound as good as my Nighthawk, I will try, it will be my Christmas present.

    Will I do it ? I don't know.

  8. #7

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    Some thoughts from someone who probably should not be giving advice. But I am interested in the topic so want to keep the thread going.

    Play some songs without the looper to mix it up. Expanding on that concept...play a chord melody version of Summertime and at the end set up a little loop on just the A section to play some lines over.

    If you are not going to use prerecorded loops try some songs with shorter forms for your loops. This Stevie Wonder tune makes a nice loop:



    Also Matt Otten has some of the best jazz loops out there



    Finally I bought this lesson and has some good solid basic looping advice:


  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    About chords, I want to try the seven string guitar.
    A seven makes it all happen! Here are two examples, both using Gone With the Wind. I made the first when I was developing a DAW and looper based on a Raspberry Pi. I laid down the comp with bass line first, then shot the video while playing the line over it. It was previously posted in my Sale ad for the Carvin.


    The second (made for my Sale ad on the Vox NightTrain head sitting on my RE Stealth 10 in the background) comes complete with clipping because I set the volume to peak at -3dB when shooting the making of the loop, and I forgot to reduce it in the mix when adding the lead to the soundtrack - but it’s good enough to appreciate what a 7 can do in this role. I played the line on my Tele 7 plugged directly into my M-Audio DAI.


    A good looper pedal like the Roland Loop Stations will hold several tunes in memory and/or let you make long ones live. FWIW, if you’re a tinkerer and already have one, I had great success with a Raspberry Pi 4 plus a basic USB DAI and Audacity recording software. I set up my iPhone as the display screen and played one solo gig with it just to prove to myself that it could be done.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    A seven makes it all happen! Here are two examples, both using Gone With the Wind. I made the first when I was developing a DAW and looper based on a Raspberry Pi. I laid down the comp with bass line first, then shot the video while playing the line over it. It was previously posted in my Sale ad for the Carvin.

    I really liked the Carvin, thanks for sharing !

  11. #10

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    Thanks @alltunes, I already know these videos but it's John Scofield who gave me the idea to play with a looper.

  12. #11

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    I'd like to say one more critizism but in good faith.

    When you're out there.. even in the corner.. Act like this is a performance. Every single second.
    Might be difficult to take care of all the knobs of the gear but learn or find a way to do that with dignity.

    It's half of the worth of your performance. Or even more - depending who is listening.

    Pls, back me up here, people It is important

  13. #12

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    I think for this type of gig, background music-- no slight intended, I've done a bunch of them-- what you're doing is probably fine. Yes, having loops stored would cut down on the monotony of having to lay out the full tune and loop before even getting to the melody, but I'm betting most people aren't noticing...

    If you do end up in a situation where you're playing to audiences that are paying closer attention, you'll have to mix it up a bit. For example, a full solo tune, or maybe a chord melody intro, then loop a chorus of chords and walking bass, and finish over that.

    I've never gotten along with loopers...maybe I'll try again someday.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu
    I'd like to say one more critizism but in good faith.

    When you're out there.. even in the corner.. Act like this is a performance. Every single second.
    Might be difficult to take care of all the knobs of the gear but learn or find a way to do that with dignity.

    It's half of the worth of your performance. Or even more - depending who is listening.

    Pls, back me up here, people It is important
    Absolutely!

    Apart from your personal pride and work ethic, the main reason it’s important is that you never know “who is listening”. Your next great gig might come from someone who just happens to catch a bit of your playing. It could be a band leader, a club owner, an engaged couple planning their wedding, etc.

    Learn your gear at home. If you can’t get through a gig (after a sound check) without adjusting more than your volume knob following the first tune, you may be using too much stuff. [Obviously, this excludes intentional changes in sound quality like pickup selection, chorus, vibrato etc.] Practice with that looper so that you can move from making to playing a loop seamlessly in real time. Make sure you have endings down cold - either include them in your loops or know exactly when to hit the stop pedal and how you’ll execute a graceful exit from the tune.

    FWIW - the older you get, the fewer knobs you need.

  15. #14

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    A lot of opinions here, that's good !
    Thanks !

  16. #15

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    Best thing is to mix it up. Play some sections solo guitar, then sneakily slip in a loop, delete it, play some more solo, do another loop. A pedal like a Boss OC3 (or whatever it's called now) would be a whole lot simpler and cheaper than buying and learning to play a 7-string, IMO.

  17. #16

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    Playing the keyboard is part of my job, on these keyboards there is a function called "transpose", I never use it because I want to learn. It's a challenge.
    I think a 7 string guitar can be a real instrument.
    An octaver like they do now is a great tool, but imagine, I am in a jam session, there is no bass player, should I bring my pedal ?
    I believe the 7th string has its own sound, other dynamics than regular strings modified by a pedal.
    I talk, I talk... I'd better try to play.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Best thing is to mix it up. Play some sections solo guitar, then sneakily slip in a loop, delete it, play some more solo, do another loop. A pedal like a Boss OC3 (or whatever it's called now) would be a whole lot simpler and cheaper than buying and learning to play a 7-string, IMO.
    Octave mutipliers are a great way to add a bottom to solo playing. Like loopers, their use requires skill and good judgment for the best effect. But they're not a substitute for a 7.

    As you point out, learning to play a 7 with full use of the 7th string is a long term endeavor and not a casual fling. I got my first 7 in the early '90s and thought I'd just ignore the 7th string until I learned to use it. This was a very foolish assumption, as just having that string there really threw me off when I least expected it. So I played only that guitar and practiced far more than I'd done for years - and in about 6 months, I started to feel as comfortable on it as I did on a 6. But it took another 2 years or more before it was second nature to me to use it in chording. I'd learned Cotten picking and Chet Atkins' approach to fingerstyle picking when I was a teenager, so I sort of knew how to lay down a bass line. But a walking line is much different from the up and down bass lines of Cotten, Atkins et al - it was a long time before I could keep a walking bass line going while comping.

    A 7 really makes a looper come alive when you can lay down a bass line and chording in one pass. But it's certainly not for everyone. Jimmy Bruno once told me not that long after I'd decided to switch that the only way to become a 7 string player is to "sell all your 6 string guitars" - so (except for oddballs like my National and my Kubicki Express) I did. After almost 30 years on a 7, I think he was correct. So the effort and journey were worth it to me - but it's not a casual undertaking.

  19. #18

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    New Looper from Boss:

    What's New Inside the BOSS RC-600? - BOSS Articles

    Boss RC-600

    Looks interesting.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu
    I'd like to say one more critizism but in good faith.

    When you're out there.. even in the corner.. Act like this is a performance. Every single second.
    Might be difficult to take care of all the knobs of the gear but learn or find a way to do that with dignity.

    It's half of the worth of your performance. Or even more - depending who is listening.

    Pls, back me up here, people It is important
    Some were listening to what I played but there were outside.
    It wasn't the right audience inside but the mayor took my visit cards.
    Maybe to destroy them.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Best thing is to mix it up. Play some sections solo guitar, then sneakily slip in a loop, delete it, play some more solo, do another loop. A pedal like a Boss OC3 (or whatever it's called now) would be a whole lot simpler and cheaper than buying and learning to play a 7-string, IMO.
    Hi !

    So I didn't listen to you, this is my first day, a very cheap guitar.


    7 String Guitar Harley Benton R-457 WH Progressive Series

  22. #21
    A very noble effort especially being able to keep time throughout. One thing that struck me is that listeners have to wait as you crank the shaft as it were. I'd have thought keeping it to short, say, 16 bar tunes gets round that problem, and then pre-program longer ones before the gig. Otherwise I think you did a great job. Well done!