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  1. #26

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    Yes, I haven't bothered with the sound files, but they will certainly be of use online.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Got my book, will be having a look tomorrow

  4. #28

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    This is a test. I want to make videos for this study group, but I don't want them to appear to my YouTube Subscribers, or anywhere else but here. They will just be phone videos. I can't upload them here, so I've put them on my YouTube channel, but Unlisted, meaning my subscribers won't know of it unless they have this link. Hopefully you can view it?

    I'm just showing my LH fingering for the chords in Chapter 1, final version. This is not a performance, by any means!


  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Now looking at the downloads, before I read anything I started downloading the audio files, large audio files. You don't need to do that. The ebooks link to the audio files online. And, you can right-click on the page it links to and download individual audio files.

    Going forward I'm going to just download the audio files that are backing tracks so I can load them in my DAW and record my guitar bits. For that matter, I'm going to delete the audio files I already downloaded to save space on my computer.

    The backing track I listened to, on page 38 of Jazz Blues 1, sounds great.
    good note, thanks for the heads up!

  6. #30

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    Yes, can view that fine, Rob.

    Okay, two questions from me - not to do with the playing which I'm okay with (so far), but with the VI7b9 chord.

    Firstly, why? Is it purely a sound thing, or is there some theory as to why we're adding the b9 to this chord? I know, in a way, this is irrelevant, and I should simply accept it, but I can't help but wonder why a b9?

    Secondly I don't understand the second statement below on page 13 (still on that same chord):

    I'm okay with this:

    "This chord is often labeled as a VI7b9 chord..."

    But this bit confuses me


    "But, it can also be thought of as the V7b9/iim7..."

    If I thinking of the D7b9 as a V chord would that not mean the iim7 should be an Amin7 - here it's Gmin7. I'm sure there's a simple explanation but I don't get it.

    Now to start doing the singing exercises on Page 17...

    Regards
    Derek

  7. #31

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    Hi Derek,

    Quote Originally Posted by digger

    Firstly, why? Is it purely a sound thing, or is there some theory as to why we're adding the b9 to this chord? I know, in a way, this is irrelevant, and I should simply accept it, but I can't help but wonder why a b9?
    Mostly a sound thing for me. But, if I tried to make some theory out of it... The D7b9 chord is "tonicizing" the Gm7, the Gm7 natural and harmonic minor scale both contain the Eb and F notes, which are the b9 and #9 of the D7, so both those notes sound good.

    Quote Originally Posted by digger

    Secondly I don't understand the second statement below on page 13 (still on that same chord):

    I'm okay with this:

    "This chord is often labeled as a VI7b9 chord..."

    But this bit confuses me


    "But, it can also be thought of as the V7b9/iim7..."

    If I thinking of the D7b9 as a V chord would that not mean the iim7 should be an Amin7 - here it's Gmin7. I'm sure there's a simple explanation but I don't get it.


    Regards
    Derek
    I think this is a V/ii/V or, a V ii of the V chord.

  8. #32

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    Derek, you can put a V7 chord in front of any chord, which serves to pull you more towards it. It therefore has forward momentum, which can be a good thing.

    D7 is the V7 of Gm. When a V7 is heading towards a minor chord, it very often sounds good if the 9th is flattened.

    V7 chords which are not the primary V7 of the song or tune, are called secondary dominants.

  9. #33
    Fep and Rob nailed it. You may want to look up "secondary dominants".

    They are referred to as "V of something". In this case, "V of II".

  10. #34

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    Cheers guys. Good learning already!

    Derek

  11. #35

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    I'm in as well. I bought the book and I'm looking forward to this.

  12. #36

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    Let's have a brief excursion to explore secondary dominants, as they are so important to jazz...as they were to Bach and others.

    Key of C - just strum basic first-position chords to get the feel of what is going on.

    CMajor is I
    Dm is ii
    Em is iii
    FMaj is IV
    GMaj is V
    Am is vi
    Bdim (not dim7) is vii

    Let's say we are going from C to Dm - just play that. Now lets insert V7 of that Dm, which is A7. So we now have C A7 Dm. Notice how the A7 pulls us more towards the Dm - that's the forward momentum I mentioned earlier.

    Now Let's go from C to Em. Put in the V7 of Em before the Em. That would be a B7. Now we have C B7 Em. Play that. It's important you play these things.

    Next up is F Major. The V7 of that is C7. So now we have C C7 F.

    Then G Major - V7=D7: C D7 G.

    Am. V7 of that is E7. Now we have C E7 Am.

    We'll miss out the V7 of the dim chord. You can do it, but it has limited usage.

    Now, what were all those V7 chords? A7, B7, C7, D7, E7. These are all Secondary Dominants, because G7 is the Primary Dominant of C Major. Notice that none of the Secondary Dominants actually belong to the key of C - they all contain one note that does not belong to C Major scale. That means they are somewhat dissonant to it. That dissonance resolves when you reach the chord that is in the key. Tension and Release - more forward momentum.

    So, in the key of C you can "visit" all the chords in that key by either just going straight to them, or inserting the V7 of the chord you are visiting. The latter approach will have more forward momentum, or pull.

    Now add a b9 to the V7, and you are officially a jazz musician!
    Last edited by Rob MacKillop; 10-28-2021 at 06:02 PM.

  13. #37

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    Ex 2 from page 9. I used the backing track from page 38 of the ebook. This is harder than it sounds or looks, there is a bit to it... how much you accent each beat; whether you're on the beat or ahead of the beat or behind affects the groove, how long you hold each strummed chord. Not completely happy with this. Listening back, I think the drummer's hi-hat would be something to lock into on this backing track.


  14. #38

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    I'd love to join in and perhaps I should but I've got a lot of pots on the cooker already

    I'll watch with interest anyway.

  15. #39

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    Hi, all. This is a great idea….I’m pretty new to playing and right now working my way through the Sagregras classical books (i just started book 2), but I would love to get into more jazz blues. I’ll have an hour a day or so for this - is that likely ok? Are there any guidelines for taking part in the study group that I should know about? Thanks again and looking forward to this!

  16. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by dws0821
    Hi, all. This is a great idea….I’m pretty new to playing and right now working my way through the Sagregras classical books (i just started book 2), but I would love to get into more jazz blues. I’ll have an hour a day or so for this - is that likely ok? Are there any guidelines for taking part in the study group that I should know about? Thanks again and looking forward to this!
    No, just jump in when ready. The thread was my idea but even I’m busy too, so will do the weekend warrior thing with a little work during the week.

    In other words, it’s self-paced so just do your best.

    P.S. Congrats on the Sagreras books. Great studies.

  17. #41

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    Ok, since we are just back from being away (and my wife had to meet her aunt as her uncle is doing very badly from Covid) and my classical is in the car I thought that I'd join here.

    The first chapter is fine. I have the Jim Ferguson jazz blues book so have done my share of Freddy Green rhythms. Although as fep said there are a lot of nuances in order to play it right so the more practise the better.

    Skipping ahead to chapter 2 and the 3 uses of the Penta/blues scale. Which approach are you all thinking of using?
    I'm going to experiment between 2 and 3.

    Fun times ahead

  18. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    Ok, since we are just back from being away (and my wife had to meet her aunt as her uncle is doing very badly from Covid) and my classical is in the car I thought that I'd join here.

    The first chapter is fine. I have the Jim Ferguson jazz blues book so have done my share of Freddy Green rhythms. Although as fep said there are a lot of nuances in order to play it right so the more practise the better.

    Skipping ahead to chapter 2 and the 3 uses of the Penta/blues scale. Which approach are you all thinking of using?
    I'm going to experiment between 2 and 3.

    Fun times ahead
    I dont know about the pentatonic answer yet - but - that Ferguson book on Jazz Blues comping is a good one!

  19. #43

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    Don, you rascal! You have got me revisiting this ebook.

    I purchased several years ago and had it on my old laptop, which I rarely use. I was able to copy the file over to my newer laptop and the course works well except for the audio files and the ability to print (neither of which I really need at this point).

    I am having fun playing in the material in this course, although that first full chord progression is a bit unlike other Jazz Blues Progressions that I had been working with earlier in the year. Still, it feels good using the shell voicings. The root on the heavier strings makes them so much easier to memorize, and the lack of notes makes them easier for me to switch between.

    Thanks for getting this going. It is a nice, attainable course that builds relatively slowly as it teaches.

  20. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Don, you rascal! You have got me revisiting this ebook.

    I purchased several years ago and had it on my old laptop, which I rarely use. I was able to copy the file over to my newer laptop and the course works well except for the audio files and the ability to print (neither of which I really need at this point).

    I am having fun playing in the material in this course, although that first full chord progression is a bit unlike other Jazz Blues Progressions that I had been working with earlier in the year. Still, it feels good using the shell voicings. The root on the heavier strings makes them so much easier to memorize, and the lack of notes makes them easier for me to switch between.

    Thanks for getting this going. It is a nice, attainable course that builds relatively slowly as it teaches.
    Dirk can help you with those tech problems. Drop him a line!

  21. #45

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    Until I get things straightened out, I will have to go to my laptop to be sure, but I think that when I first bought the course, maybe around 2015, I got confused at some of the language. Rob M has cleared up a couple of questions that I had at the time, and I guess still had. Specifically, when the text said something like V7b9 /iim7, I did not know what the heck that meant. Now, I do.

    Still, I can see that in book one, although I have the chord progressions all mastered, it is starting to look as though the soloing part, where it recommends various scales for the chords, is where I will get bogged down. I just don't see how I can learn to improvise over all the different progressions without a lot of playing - certainly a year of dedication, with my schedule.

    So I am thinking that I will take each progression, one-by-one, make a little recording, and then hammer away with the different recommendations. There is no way to avoid the work, I see. But, that's OK. At least it gives a good framework within to work. I have my favorite scales and arps that I use, but I have never gotten proficient at chasing the changes as some of the recommendations in the book spell out. Should be fun.

  22. #46

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    ^ I think there is a natural desire and expectation to keep moving through a book - in this case a pdf - and a feeling of negativity (getting “bogged down”, for example) when progress is halted. Add to that the fact that this is Volume 1 of 2, there’s the feeling of being “stuck” in the beginners lane.

    That is not the case.

    A few shell voicings can allow you to play literally hundreds of songs, in many different keys, and the minor and major blues scales can sound fantastic in a jazz context, as any listen to Midnight Blue will attest.

    In these JJG study groups there are always some who move at a quicker or slower pace than the majority. It’s important not to think “I’m doing really badly” or “I’m doing WAY better than others” as in both cases you are probably wrong, and besides, all the things we learn in this pdf can be used in real playing contexts.

    So don’t feel you have to keep taking on new stuff every day, week or month. Take a little bit and play with it for as long as it takes to become just something you know and do.

    As a practical ‘for instance’: take the shell voicings from Chapter 1 and apply them to various Blues heads in different keys: G Ab Bb and C. Try Freddie Freeloader from Miles’s Kind Of Blue. The chords you will need are:

    Bb7, Eb7, F7 and Ab7

    With half a dozen 3-note chord shapes you have at your command, most swing bands would be happy to hear from you.

  23. #47

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    Well I've had a closer look at the material this morning and I'm looking forward to really getting stuck in.

    Keeping to chapter one for the moment, I think I shall be on page 17 for a little while - again the playing isn't so bad as like a few of you I'm okay with shell voicings (I've done Chapter One of Randy Vincent's book about six times and a few of the voicings have stuck!). Nevertheless, it never hurts to check the foundations once in a while, so I've been playing the various blues sequences in all keys. To this end, I've been using the shapes for the 12 bar sequences not only as per the book (starting on the 5th string in the key of F) but also when we start in a key where a sixth string I7 chord is more appropriate (say Bb). All this is okay, although I keep wanting to resolve to a I chord rather than a I7.

    What's taking me the time - and I may be here a while - is getting the page 17 singing exercises right. I'm okay singing the root, but getting the 5ths and 3rds is proving problematic. I'm a really poor singer and actually have been reading up on, and practicing audiation, a lot these last few weeks - i.e. ensuring I can hear in my head what it is I want to sing before actually singing it. I want to nail the concept of hearing these 3rd and 5ths really well, and be able to sing them, as I know this will prove invaluable going forwards.

    Been enjoying playing Rob's additional lesson on secondary-dominants, too!

    Cheers
    Derek

  24. #48

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    First time I've come across the word "audiation" I'm definitely learning some things here!

  25. #49

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    Rather like trying to play jazz guitar - in which I've spent many years failing to do it - so the same can be said of singing. Audiation is my last stand before admitting defeat... Essentially it's about ensuring one can hear something before trying to sing it. I guess it's new brain science applied to singing and hearing music in one's head.

    So far as this study group it means when I play, say, the iim7 I don't want to have to physically find the note within the chord on the guitar and "lock on to it" and then sing it (which is what I've done for 40 years), I want to hear it in my mind and then sing it. The existing method has got me by, but as soon as I want to sing a note that isn't in the fingered chord, or is a little unusual I get stuck.

    Derek

  26. #50

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    Rob hit the nail on the head. With just a few chord shapes you can play many tunes. Interestingly advanced players like Tim Lerch use these shapes more often than you think. I'll record a chorus later on today once I have no guilt access to the music room.

    Digger, I'm in the same boat. I'm a terrible singer although I have improved a little over the years.
    What I found helpful was singing harmony to a scale and learning sight singing with solfege. Also play an open chord and sing the arpeggio. There are so many exercises really.