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  1. #226

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    Hey Joe, Sounds great, really like the 2nd lick, you nailed it. And the Mimi Fox bit is awesome.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #227

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    Okay, I had a go at playing the full sequence in the key of C (even added an extra ii-V in bar 4) and playing the first three licks from chapter two. I think what I discovered is that I need to practice these three licks a lot more before going onto the Kenny Burrell licks. I just don't know these first three well enough - you think you do, until it's time to play them in anger... (and this is only in one position)

    The bass line is just played on the same acoustic guitar - it's just another exercise to help me get the changes under my fingers.

    I'm happy with the sound, just not the lead playing which feels like it doesn't fit the chords very well.



    Cheers
    Derek

  4. #228

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    ... you think you do, until it's time to play them in anger...
    LOL! When the red record light goes on, it seems to also turn off my memory.

    I'm happy with the sound, just not the lead playing which feels like it doesn't fit the chords very well.
    I loved all of it Derek. Sounded smooth and relaxed to me. Well done!

  5. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger

    I'm happy with the sound, just not the lead playing which feels like it doesn't fit the chords very well.



    Cheers
    Derek
    Besides it is just plainly nice sounding, this is also a very apparent development of your playing, congratulations!

  6. #230

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    This might finally be my chance to learn how to really solo and play the melodies in my head.

    I can see that we will eventually go from the Blues Scales to actually playing the notes in the chords. In listening to a particular Tim Lerch solo, in the breakdown he says he likes to mix the beautiful arpeggios and extensions right along with his "dirty" Blues expressions. This is my goal, to be able to play the beautiful "Jazzy" lines along with the Blues Lines. And then, I want to be able to take those Jazz lines on to more traditional Jazz songs.

    Here is another fellow, Henry Johnson, who I want to be able to play like. Maybe these videos can help with your mindset as you try to learn to improvise freely. One is solo, the other is a breakdown of what he is thinking, and he gives the various "tools" that he used.




    I think I can get there this time, although my family might leave me before it is all said and done LOL!

  7. #231

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    No problem with the chords in chapter 1, been using them in similar progressions for a while. I do like the suggestion to sing the root, third and seventh while playing. Root, no problem, third and seventh will take a little work. I wonder if it would be best to isolate them on the guitar and sing with them that way before trying to sing with the whole chord. Any thoughts?

  8. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4d8
    No problem with the chords in chapter 1, been using them in similar progressions for a while. I do like the suggestion to sing the root, third and seventh while playing. Root, no problem, third and seventh will take a little work. I wonder if it would be best to isolate them on the guitar and sing with them that way before trying to sing with the whole chord. Any thoughts?
    Can someone tell me what is to be gained by singing the root, third, and seventh tones? I am not sure of the direct benefit.

  9. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4d8
    I do like the suggestion to sing the root, third and seventh while playing. Root, no problem, third and seventh will take a little work. I wonder if it would be best to isolate them on the guitar and sing with them that way before trying to sing with the whole chord. Any thoughts?
    I'm still struggling with this, too, but I have moved on as well to try the first few licks. If I wait until I can hear and sing those tones to my own satisfaction I'll never get more than 10% of the way through.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Can someone tell me what is to be gained by singing the root, third, and seventh tones? I am not sure of the direct benefit.
    I think being able to hear those tones - and hence sing them - will be really beneficial when we come to hear and play lines that cross the chords. The 3rds and 7ths may prove to be target notes so (I believe) it'll be vital to be able to hear them amongst everything else that is going on.

  10. #234

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    Anticipation. It's good to know the sound you are about to play. Or if you hear a note in your head, you are more likely to play it.

  11. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Anticipation. It's good to know the sound you are about to play. Or if you hear a note in your head, you are more likely to play it.
    OK, then.

    I will play only roots, then only 7ths, and only the thirds to see if I can internalize and hear the individual notes when played as a complete chord. Thanks

  12. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4d8
    I do like the suggestion to sing the root, third and seventh while playing. Root, no problem, third and seventh will take a little work. I wonder if it would be best to isolate them on the guitar and sing with them that way before trying to sing with the whole chord. Any thoughts?
    Hard for me too. Try playing just the root and singing the interval you're after above it while just doing a simple blues, check yourself for accuracy, repeat, just a three dominant 7th chords blues to start. Once you find that first note, it's not so hard to move it to the other chords in a simple progression. Baby steps.

    I think it's a good ear training exercise and probably good training for singing harmonies (my main thing is songwriting and recording my songs so singing harmonies is something I'm trying to develop). But, will this exercise help me improvise? I don't think so, not in my lifetime (I'm 63, your mileage may vary).

    Things happen too fast while improvising for this to have any utility for me. I think we improvise in chunks of notes, not one note at a time (like this exercise).

    I think improvising is like speed reading. We don't read one letter at a time and sound out the word that way, we see the whole word of several letters as one unit. And depending on how fast you read, you actually take in several words at a time as one thing, that's how you speed read. I think improvising is like that, you play/hear whole phrases at a time, phrases made up from your vocabulary.

    Just my opinion, and I'm a nobody.

    As an aside. I was taking guitar lessons from a pro in San Diego, a first-call kind of guy. At the same time, I was in an ear-training class. I showed him how I could sing all the intervals up or done from a given note. He said, "I can't do that". But, he sure could improvise, and knew hundreds of tunes, and was gigging multiple times a week with various jazz musicians in San Diego.

  13. #237

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    Another approach is to scat sing what you are playing, like George Benson would do. I officially have the World’s Worst Voice, but even I can get a little out of this approach.

  14. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I think it's a good ear training exercise and probably good training for singing harmonies (my main thing is songwriting and recording my songs so singing harmonies is something I'm trying to develop). But, will this exercise help me improvise? I don't think so, not in my lifetime (I'm 63, your mileage may vary).

    Things happen too fast while improvising for this to have any utility for me. I think we improvise in chunks of notes, not one note at a time (like this exercise).

    Just my opinion, and I'm a nobody.
    Fep, I am 58 and I have been wondering if that "ship may not have sailed (I am talking about improvising at an above average level)" for me as well. But, to blunt, I am a stubborn bastard, maybe even a little spoiled by life. I am used to overcoming.

    But, I am also a realist, especially given my time constraints. But, I gotta tell you, I am pulling out all the stops on this one. To start, I have the neck diagram of the scales in front of me all the while. I am also copying the practice that you, Clifford Brown, and many other have of practicing various licks repeatedly.

    I am doing 2 hours a day (staying up late sometimes). I am progressing so the idea of improvising is teasing me on. I will give it some time before I abandon the idea and drown my tears with booze in one of the "Blues alleys" that we have here in Texas. lol

  15. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Another approach is to scat sing what you are playing, like George Benson would do. I officially have the World’s Worst Voice, but even I can get a little out of this approach.
    That... I think is much more useful.

    Just gave it a shot. I think it helps with rhythm and perhaps one's lines end up making more sense. Really, for me, this is singing what I play (as opposed to playing what I sing). And the guitar hides the pitchiness.

    Last edited by fep; 11-23-2021 at 06:11 PM.

  16. #240

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    Interesting few posts and they're exactly things I could have written. Seems no man is an island.

    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Just gave it a shot. I think it helps with rhythm and perhaps one's lines end up making more sense. Really, for me, this is singing what I play (as opposed to playing what I sing). And the guitar hides the pitchiness.
    Exactly what happens to me when I try this. My fingers end up doing something and my voice follows. I'd love to be able to do it the other way around! Same result with pitchiness, too ;-)

    One thing I have been doing, strangely, is playing the clarinet. I love old 20s and 30s swing and have a fondness for the clarinet so back when we weren't allowed out of an evening I took up this instrument and have somehow managed to carry on with my 30 minutes a day. Obviously one can't sing and play the clarinet at the same time, but being a brand new instrument it's made me think a lot more about scales and about what notes I am going to play. That said, a year and a half in and I'm already finding I've developed some lines that I keep falling back on...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Fep, I am 58 and I have been wondering if that "ship may not have sailed (I am talking about improvising at an above average level)" for me as well. But, to blunt, I am a stubborn bastard, maybe even a little spoiled by life. I am used to overcoming.

    But, I am also a realist, especially given my time constraints. But, I gotta tell you, I am pulling out all the stops on this one. To start, I have the neck diagram of the scales in front of me all the while. I am also copying the practice that you, Clifford Brown, and many other have of practicing various licks repeatedly.

    I am doing 2 hours a day (staying up late sometimes). I am progressing so the idea of improvising is teasing me on. I will give it some time before I abandon the idea and drown my tears with booze in one of the "Blues alleys" that we have here in Texas. lol
    58 here, too, and pretty convinced that the ship has sailed for me. I've put in a lot of work (clearly nowhere near enough, though) over the years and still can't improvise for toffee. My lines just don't have that swing and that interesting structure and they don't follow the chords and there's no story and no progression as a solo develops. I'm pretty good on a single chorus of Chuck Berry, though :-)

    This is why, deep down, I think I may well end up focussing on the harmony side of this course (and maybe the Chord Melody PDF). I do enjoy playing the rhythm tracks especially as more and more ii-Vs and passing chords are added. Not quite ready to really admit defeat yet, though.

    Two hours a day is great! Well done.

    Derek

  17. #241

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    I'd like to clarify...

    I believe I can improvise and I can improve at improv (Improve at Improv, a good name for a book).

    What I wrote and meant, is I don't think the exercise of singing the 3rds or 7ths of the chords while playing a chord progression will help me improve as an improvisor.

    There's plenty of other things I can work on that will help me improve as an improvisor (including plenty of other things from this book).

    I certainly didn't intend to encourage anyone to throw in the towel on improvisation just because of a comment I made about one of the books suggested exercises.

    As an aside, didn't anyone like the title of my last video?

  18. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    ....One thing I have been doing, strangely, is playing the clarinet. I love old 20s and 30s swing and have a fondness for the clarinet so back when we weren't allowed out of an evening I took up this instrument and have somehow managed to carry on with my 30 minutes a day....
    Derek
    As a former sax/flute player, I think a big difference is that wind players think melodically, guitarists more chordally. When I studied with Lee Konitz, he stressed learning the melody and then adding lead in or out notes, usually 1/2 step or whole step above or below the melody as you went on to improvise around it.

  19. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4d8
    . When I studied with Lee Konitz
    What?! Wow! You’ve got to tell us more about that, Brad!

  20. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    What?! Wow! You’ve got to tell us more about that, Brad!
    Long time ago, and only for a year or so. Very friendly and open, just a nice guy. AFAIK, much of his approach was gleaned from Lennie Tristano, an early collaborator. I'm more into chord style playing, but I do try to use some of his tips when I'm I'm trying to improvise on a tune melodically.

  21. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4d8
    As a former sax/flute player, I think a big difference is that wind players think melodically, guitarists more chordally. When I studied with Lee Konitz, he stressed learning the melody and then adding lead in or out notes, usually 1/2 step or whole step above or below the melody as you went on to improvise around it.
    Yes, B,
    And, if you don't think melodically, all songs sound the same and you're just playing changes. Everything starts with the melody. Period. This is why so many young players eager to show their chops are so predictable and for me . . . boring. Listen to players like Wes, Kenny Burrell, Barney Kessel, Grant Green . . .
    Play live . . . Marinero


  22. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I'd like to clarify...

    I believe I can improvise and I can improve at improv (Improve at Improv, a good name for a book).

    What I wrote and meant, is I don't think the exercise of singing the 3rds or 7ths of the chords while playing a chord progression will help me improve as an improvisor.

    There's plenty of other things I can work on that will help me improve as an improvisor (including plenty of other things from this book).

    I certainly didn't intend to encourage anyone to throw in the towel on improvisation just because of a comment I made about one of the books suggested exercises.

    As an aside, didn't anyone like the title of my last video?
    Sorry I misunderstood. It is clear to me that you can improvise from the videos you have posted. I was thinking that you were saying you were not at the level you wanted and had kind of left that pursuit behind.

    Thanks for the clarification and sharing your thoughts. Its helpful to me to see what people are hoping to get out of this course. (And by the way, internet issues kept me from watching your most recent video. I will circle back to it.)

  23. #247

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    Making a bit of progress, recorded a backing track in G and had a go at developing a solo based on arpeggios and also using a couple of the minor blues scale riffs. This is 'warts and all', evidently not striving for perfection here, I find the recording process difficult, but I can see the benefits.

  24. #248

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    That’s progress indeed, Jona. Keep it up!

  25. #249

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    Jona - Nice job and agree with Rob. You didn't rush, and remained in control throughout.

  26. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar
    Jona - Nice job and agree with Rob. You didn't rush, and remained in control throughout.
    Thanks Don & Rob, it’s been an interesting process developing and planning the flow. I’ve always noodled about with minor blues scale up to now, so its a bit of a revelation to find I can go from chord to chord like this with a bit of practice