The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Posts 1 to 25 of 78
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    I've been playing guitar on and off for years. I play trumpet to a medium grade, but my theory is useless. I'm learning jazz guitar and having a great time playing the licks and chord studies, but I know I'm going to have to confront the theory at some point.

    The question is, where to start?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Dirk (host of this forum) has some excellent introductory material.
    Jazz Guitar Online | Free Jazz Guitar Lessons For All Levels

    It’s best to learn theory in the context of standards—for example, Dirk’s video on Autumn Leaves.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Can you get a small (even toy casio, etc) keyboard? Theory is the systemization of sound and relative and linear order. A piano keyboard does that intuitively. A guitar is confusion to the third order. Intervallic space can be elusive for ear training (an essential element of knowing theory) on the guitar, it's more than natural on a keyboard.
    A keyboard will help you understand creatively without the initial landmine of guitar grabs and fingerings that can be distracting to what is happening sonically.
    Of course books, studies and other outside sources come highly recommended, but knowing the reference on a piano can give you a sure visual and aural foundation that facilitates creative play. It doesn't exclude guitar study but as a supplemental aid, I can't recommend it enough.
    My two cents anyway

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Where to start with chord theory?

    Don't. Run. Save yourself while there's still time :-)

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    There are some books on it which may be helpful.

    Mark Levine's Jazz Theory is one that I like. Others find fault with it (and they may chime in), but there's a lot in Levine's book and it's well written with lots of examples. if you have a kb and the ability to read, however slowly, in bass and treble clefs. There may be, somewhere, a recording of all his examples -- that would be helpful.

    That said, I think the best way to learn chords and the underlying theory is through learning chord melody. That's best done with a teacher.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladders
    I've been playing guitar on and off for years. I play trumpet to a medium grade, but my theory is useless. I'm learning jazz guitar and having a great time playing the licks and chord studies, but I know I'm going to have to confront the theory at some point.

    The question is, where to start?
    Honestly if it’s chord construction etc you are interested in you’d be better off looking into learning a little arranger’s piano.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    You have an excellent head start from playing your horn; on the guitar, let yourself find things and figure them out (its really good for you), then look briefly and casually at the theory stuff periodically and see what you recognize of what you discovered yourself... let the theory naturally back fill your knowledge as you go forward (don't take it too seriously).


    That said, here is some reference theory stuff.


    Chord theory has two main parts; the construction of the sounds of chords themselves, and the way they form sequences of sounds to make songs.


    These chord constructions are rooted on C below, kind of spelled out for clarity - there are a few versions of the compact chord symbology which you will want to learn how to interpret (also, guitarists don't play all the notes, usually start dropping out the lower octave chord tones as the extensions and alterations are added into the upper octave):


    C Major (C E G)
    C Minor (C Eb G)
    C Augmented (C E G#)
    C Diminished (C Eb Gb)
    C Dominant 7th (C E G Bb)
    C Major 7th (C E G B)
    C Minor 7th (C Eb G Bb)
    C Minor Maj 7th (C Eb G B)
    C Aug 7 (C E G# Bb)
    C Aug Maj 7 (C E G# B)
    C Half Dim 7 (C Eb G Bb)
    C Full Dim 7 (C Eb Gb Bbb)
    C Dim Maj 7 (C Eb Gb B)
    C 9 (C E G Bb D)
    C b9 (C E G Bb Db)
    C #9 (C E G Bb D#)
    C Maj 9 (C E G B D)
    C Maj b9 (C E G B Db)
    C Maj #9 (C E G B D#)
    C Min 9 (C Eb G Bb D)
    C Min b9 (C Eb G Bb Db)
    C Min Maj 9 (C Eb G B D)
    C Min Maj b9 (C Eb G B Db)
    C Min Maj #9 (C Eb G B D#)
    C Aug 9 (C E G# Bb D)
    C Aug b9 (C E G# Bb Db)
    C Aug #9 (C E G# Bb D#)
    C Aug Maj 9 (C E G# B D)
    C Aug Maj b9 (C E G# B Db)
    C Aug Maj #9 (C E G# B D#)
    C Half Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bb D)
    C Half Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bb Db)
    C Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bbb D)
    C Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db)
    C Dim Maj 9 (C Eb Gb B D)
    C Dim Maj b9 (C Eb Gb B Db)
    C 11 (C E G Bb D F)
    C b9 11 (C E G Bb Db F)
    C #9 11 (C E G Bb D# F)
    C #11 (C E G Bb D F#)
    C b9 #11 (C E G Bb Db F#)
    C #9 #11 (C E G Bb D# F#)
    C Maj 11 (C E G B D F)
    C Maj b9 11 (C E G B Db F)
    C Maj #9 11 (C E G B D# F)
    C Maj #11 (C E G B D F#)
    C Maj b9 #11 (C E G B Db F#)
    C Maj #9 #11 (C E G B D# F#)
    C Min 11 (C Eb G Bb D F)
    C Min b9 11 (C Eb G Bb Db F)
    C Min #9 11 (C Eb G Bb D# F)
    C Min #11 (C Eb G Bb D F#)
    C Min b9 #11 (C Eb G Bb Db F#)
    C Min #9 #11 (C Eb G Bb D# F#)
    C Min Maj 11 (C Eb G B D F)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F)
    C Min Maj #9 11 (C Eb G B D# F)
    C Min Maj #11 (C Eb G B D F#)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 (C Eb G B Db F#)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 (C Eb G B D# F#)
    C Aug 11 (C E G# Bb D F)
    C Aug b9 11 (C E G# Bb Db F)
    C Aug #9 11 (C E G# Bb D# F)
    C Aug #11 (C E G# Bb D F#)
    C Aug b9 #11 (C E G# Bb Db F#)
    C Aug #9 #11 (C E G# Bb D# F#)
    C Aug Maj 11 (C E G# B D F)
    C Aug Maj b9 11 (C E G# B Db F)
    C Aug Maj #9 11 (C E G# B D# F)
    C Aug Maj #11 (C E G# B D F#)
    C Aug Maj b9 #11 (C E G# B Db F#)
    C Aug Maj #9 #11 (C E G# B D# F#)
    C Half Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bb D F)
    C Half Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bb Db F)
    C Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb D F)
    C Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db F)
    C Dim Maj 11 (C Eb Gb B D F)
    C Dim Maj b9 11 (C Eb Gb B D F#)
    C 13 (C E G Bb D F A)
    C b9 11 13 (C E G Bb Db F A)
    C #9 11 13 (C E G Bb D# F A)
    C #11 13 (C E G Bb D F# A)
    C b9 #11 13 (C E G Bb Db F# A)
    C #9 #11 13 (C E G Bb D# F# A)
    C Maj13 (C E G B D F A)
    C Maj b9 11 13 (C E G B Db F A)
    C Maj #9 11 13 (C E G B D# F A)
    C Maj #11 13 (C E G B D F# A)
    C Maj b9 #11 13 (C E G B Db F# A)
    C Maj #9 #11 13 (C E G B D# F# A)
    C Min11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F A)
    C Min b9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F A)
    C Min #9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F A)
    C Min #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F# A)
    C Min b9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F# A)
    C Min #9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F# A)
    C Min Maj 13 (C Eb G B D F A)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F A)
    C Min Maj #9 11 13 (C Eb G B D# F A)
    C Min Maj #11 13 (C Eb G B D F# A)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 13 (C Eb G B Db F# A)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 13 (C Eb G B D# F# A)


    Sometimes complex chords may be simplified as stacks of simpler things (polychords)


    Triads over two note chords:
    Db minor over C Bb results in C7 #5 b9
    D major over E Bb results in C7 #11
    Eb major over C E results in C7 #9
    F# major over C E results in C7 b5 b9
    F# minor over E Bb results in C7 b5 b9
    A major over C Bb results in C7 b9


    Chords over chords:
    Ab major over C major results in C7 #11 b9D major over C7 results in C9 13 #11
    A major over C7 resulting in C13 b9
    Ab major over C7 resulting in C7 #5 #9
    Eb minor over C7 resulting in C7 #9 #11D major over Cmaj7 results in Cmaj13 #11
    D minor seventh over C minor seventh results in Cm13
    Abmaj7 over C7 results in C7 #9 b13
    A6 over C7 results in C13 b9 #11


    Progressions may be described by the Roman numeral system, which identifies the root of a chord by substituting the Roman numeral corresponding to that root's scale degree (including relative accidentals as needed) of the key of the progression. Major chords use upper case, minor chords use lower case. Here is an example of how common chord progression changes are shown schematically; ...follow the arrows, branching points, cycles, etc.



  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    "Chord Theory" or "Harmony"?


    Try this, you will see that there are two more basic books from Berklee too. I doubt if you need them.

    Sorry! Something went wrong!

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    You have an excellent head start from playing your horn; on the guitar, let yourself find things and figure them out (its really good for you), then look briefly and casually at the theory stuff periodically and see what you recognize of what you discovered yourself... let the theory naturally back fill your knowledge as you go forward (don't take it too seriously).


    That said, here is some reference theory stuff.


    Chord theory has two main parts; the construction of the sounds of chords themselves, and the way they form sequences of sounds to make songs.


    These chord constructions are rooted on C below, kind of spelled out for clarity - there are a few versions of the compact chord symbology which you will want to learn how to interpret (also, guitarists don't play all the notes, usually start dropping out the lower octave chord tones as the extensions and alterations are added into the upper octave):


    C Major (C E G)
    C Minor (C Eb G)
    C Augmented (C E G#)
    C Diminished (C Eb Gb)
    C Dominant 7th (C E G Bb)
    C Major 7th (C E G B)
    C Minor 7th (C Eb G Bb)
    C Minor Maj 7th (C Eb G B)
    C Aug 7 (C E G# Bb)
    C Aug Maj 7 (C E G# B)
    C Half Dim 7 (C Eb G Bb)
    C Full Dim 7 (C Eb Gb Bbb)
    C Dim Maj 7 (C Eb Gb B)
    C 9 (C E G Bb D)
    C b9 (C E G Bb Db)
    C #9 (C E G Bb D#)
    C Maj 9 (C E G B D)
    C Maj b9 (C E G B Db)
    C Maj #9 (C E G B D#)
    C Min 9 (C Eb G Bb D)
    C Min b9 (C Eb G Bb Db)
    C Min Maj 9 (C Eb G B D)
    C Min Maj b9 (C Eb G B Db)
    C Min Maj #9 (C Eb G B D#)
    C Aug 9 (C E G# Bb D)
    C Aug b9 (C E G# Bb Db)
    C Aug #9 (C E G# Bb D#)
    C Aug Maj 9 (C E G# B D)
    C Aug Maj b9 (C E G# B Db)
    C Aug Maj #9 (C E G# B D#)
    C Half Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bb D)
    C Half Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bb Db)
    C Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bbb D)
    C Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db)
    C Dim Maj 9 (C Eb Gb B D)
    C Dim Maj b9 (C Eb Gb B Db)
    C 11 (C E G Bb D F)
    C b9 11 (C E G Bb Db F)
    C #9 11 (C E G Bb D# F)
    C #11 (C E G Bb D F#)
    C b9 #11 (C E G Bb Db F#)
    C #9 #11 (C E G Bb D# F#)
    C Maj 11 (C E G B D F)
    C Maj b9 11 (C E G B Db F)
    C Maj #9 11 (C E G B D# F)
    C Maj #11 (C E G B D F#)
    C Maj b9 #11 (C E G B Db F#)
    C Maj #9 #11 (C E G B D# F#)
    C Min 11 (C Eb G Bb D F)
    C Min b9 11 (C Eb G Bb Db F)
    C Min #9 11 (C Eb G Bb D# F)
    C Min #11 (C Eb G Bb D F#)
    C Min b9 #11 (C Eb G Bb Db F#)
    C Min #9 #11 (C Eb G Bb D# F#)
    C Min Maj 11 (C Eb G B D F)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F)
    C Min Maj #9 11 (C Eb G B D# F)
    C Min Maj #11 (C Eb G B D F#)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 (C Eb G B Db F#)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 (C Eb G B D# F#)
    C Aug 11 (C E G# Bb D F)
    C Aug b9 11 (C E G# Bb Db F)
    C Aug #9 11 (C E G# Bb D# F)
    C Aug #11 (C E G# Bb D F#)
    C Aug b9 #11 (C E G# Bb Db F#)
    C Aug #9 #11 (C E G# Bb D# F#)
    C Aug Maj 11 (C E G# B D F)
    C Aug Maj b9 11 (C E G# B Db F)
    C Aug Maj #9 11 (C E G# B D# F)
    C Aug Maj #11 (C E G# B D F#)
    C Aug Maj b9 #11 (C E G# B Db F#)
    C Aug Maj #9 #11 (C E G# B D# F#)
    C Half Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bb D F)
    C Half Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bb Db F)
    C Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb D F)
    C Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db F)
    C Dim Maj 11 (C Eb Gb B D F)
    C Dim Maj b9 11 (C Eb Gb B D F#)
    C 13 (C E G Bb D F A)
    C b9 11 13 (C E G Bb Db F A)
    C #9 11 13 (C E G Bb D# F A)
    C #11 13 (C E G Bb D F# A)
    C b9 #11 13 (C E G Bb Db F# A)
    C #9 #11 13 (C E G Bb D# F# A)
    C Maj13 (C E G B D F A)
    C Maj b9 11 13 (C E G B Db F A)
    C Maj #9 11 13 (C E G B D# F A)
    C Maj #11 13 (C E G B D F# A)
    C Maj b9 #11 13 (C E G B Db F# A)
    C Maj #9 #11 13 (C E G B D# F# A)
    C Min11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F A)
    C Min b9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F A)
    C Min #9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F A)
    C Min #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F# A)
    C Min b9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F# A)
    C Min #9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F# A)
    C Min Maj 13 (C Eb G B D F A)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F A)
    C Min Maj #9 11 13 (C Eb G B D# F A)
    C Min Maj #11 13 (C Eb G B D F# A)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 13 (C Eb G B Db F# A)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 13 (C Eb G B D# F# A)


    Sometimes complex chords may be simplified as stacks of simpler things (polychords)


    Triads over two note chords:
    Db minor over C Bb results in C7 #5 b9
    D major over E Bb results in C7 #11
    Eb major over C E results in C7 #9
    F# major over C E results in C7 b5 b9
    F# minor over E Bb results in C7 b5 b9
    A major over C Bb results in C7 b9


    Chords over chords:
    Ab major over C major results in C7 #11 b9D major over C7 results in C9 13 #11
    A major over C7 resulting in C13 b9
    Ab major over C7 resulting in C7 #5 #9
    Eb minor over C7 resulting in C7 #9 #11D major over Cmaj7 results in Cmaj13 #11
    D minor seventh over C minor seventh results in Cm13
    Abmaj7 over C7 results in C7 #9 b13
    A6 over C7 results in C13 b9 #11


    Progressions may be described by the Roman numeral system, which identifies the root of a chord by substituting the Roman numeral corresponding to that root's scale degree (including relative accidentals as needed) of the key of the progression. Major chords use upper case, minor chords use lower case. Here is an example of how common chord progression changes are shown schematically; ...follow the arrows, branching points, cycles, etc.


    1) I’m totally showing my mate Kit those diagrams, he will love them
    2) whenever I think I’m being a bit much I’ll refer to this post
    3) I tolerate only the thoroughbass. What are these heretic sigils?
    4) DEATH TO FALSE GOD OF HARMONY. LONG LIVE COUNTERPOINT!

    Think that covers it. Carry on.

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    You're all mad.

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Honestly if it’s chord construction etc you are interested in you’d be better off looking into learning a little arranger’s piano.
    That's a good point. I do have a piano.

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    You have an excellent head start from playing your horn; on the guitar, let yourself find things and figure them out (its really good for you), then look briefly and casually at the theory stuff periodically and see what you recognize of what you discovered yourself... let the theory naturally back fill your knowledge as you go forward (don't take it too seriously).


    That said, here is some reference theory stuff.


    Chord theory has two main parts; the construction of the sounds of chords themselves, and the way they form sequences of sounds to make songs.


    These chord constructions are rooted on C below, kind of spelled out for clarity - there are a few versions of the compact chord symbology which you will want to learn how to interpret (also, guitarists don't play all the notes, usually start dropping out the lower octave chord tones as the extensions and alterations are added into the upper octave):


    C Major (C E G)
    C Minor (C Eb G)
    C Augmented (C E G#)
    C Diminished (C Eb Gb)
    C Dominant 7th (C E G Bb)
    C Major 7th (C E G B)
    C Minor 7th (C Eb G Bb)
    C Minor Maj 7th (C Eb G B)
    C Aug 7 (C E G# Bb)
    C Aug Maj 7 (C E G# B)
    C Half Dim 7 (C Eb G Bb)
    C Full Dim 7 (C Eb Gb Bbb)
    C Dim Maj 7 (C Eb Gb B)
    C 9 (C E G Bb D)
    C b9 (C E G Bb Db)
    C #9 (C E G Bb D#)
    C Maj 9 (C E G B D)
    C Maj b9 (C E G B Db)
    C Maj #9 (C E G B D#)
    C Min 9 (C Eb G Bb D)
    C Min b9 (C Eb G Bb Db)
    C Min Maj 9 (C Eb G B D)
    C Min Maj b9 (C Eb G B Db)
    C Min Maj #9 (C Eb G B D#)
    C Aug 9 (C E G# Bb D)
    C Aug b9 (C E G# Bb Db)
    C Aug #9 (C E G# Bb D#)
    C Aug Maj 9 (C E G# B D)
    C Aug Maj b9 (C E G# B Db)
    C Aug Maj #9 (C E G# B D#)
    C Half Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bb D)
    C Half Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bb Db)
    C Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bbb D)
    C Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db)
    C Dim Maj 9 (C Eb Gb B D)
    C Dim Maj b9 (C Eb Gb B Db)
    C 11 (C E G Bb D F)
    C b9 11 (C E G Bb Db F)
    C #9 11 (C E G Bb D# F)
    C #11 (C E G Bb D F#)
    C b9 #11 (C E G Bb Db F#)
    C #9 #11 (C E G Bb D# F#)
    C Maj 11 (C E G B D F)
    C Maj b9 11 (C E G B Db F)
    C Maj #9 11 (C E G B D# F)
    C Maj #11 (C E G B D F#)
    C Maj b9 #11 (C E G B Db F#)
    C Maj #9 #11 (C E G B D# F#)
    C Min 11 (C Eb G Bb D F)
    C Min b9 11 (C Eb G Bb Db F)
    C Min #9 11 (C Eb G Bb D# F)
    C Min #11 (C Eb G Bb D F#)
    C Min b9 #11 (C Eb G Bb Db F#)
    C Min #9 #11 (C Eb G Bb D# F#)
    C Min Maj 11 (C Eb G B D F)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F)
    C Min Maj #9 11 (C Eb G B D# F)
    C Min Maj #11 (C Eb G B D F#)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 (C Eb G B Db F#)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 (C Eb G B D# F#)
    C Aug 11 (C E G# Bb D F)
    C Aug b9 11 (C E G# Bb Db F)
    C Aug #9 11 (C E G# Bb D# F)
    C Aug #11 (C E G# Bb D F#)
    C Aug b9 #11 (C E G# Bb Db F#)
    C Aug #9 #11 (C E G# Bb D# F#)
    C Aug Maj 11 (C E G# B D F)
    C Aug Maj b9 11 (C E G# B Db F)
    C Aug Maj #9 11 (C E G# B D# F)
    C Aug Maj #11 (C E G# B D F#)
    C Aug Maj b9 #11 (C E G# B Db F#)
    C Aug Maj #9 #11 (C E G# B D# F#)
    C Half Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bb D F)
    C Half Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bb Db F)
    C Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb D F)
    C Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db F)
    C Dim Maj 11 (C Eb Gb B D F)
    C Dim Maj b9 11 (C Eb Gb B D F#)
    C 13 (C E G Bb D F A)
    C b9 11 13 (C E G Bb Db F A)
    C #9 11 13 (C E G Bb D# F A)
    C #11 13 (C E G Bb D F# A)
    C b9 #11 13 (C E G Bb Db F# A)
    C #9 #11 13 (C E G Bb D# F# A)
    C Maj13 (C E G B D F A)
    C Maj b9 11 13 (C E G B Db F A)
    C Maj #9 11 13 (C E G B D# F A)
    C Maj #11 13 (C E G B D F# A)
    C Maj b9 #11 13 (C E G B Db F# A)
    C Maj #9 #11 13 (C E G B D# F# A)
    C Min11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F A)
    C Min b9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F A)
    C Min #9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F A)
    C Min #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F# A)
    C Min b9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F# A)
    C Min #9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F# A)
    C Min Maj 13 (C Eb G B D F A)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F A)
    C Min Maj #9 11 13 (C Eb G B D# F A)
    C Min Maj #11 13 (C Eb G B D F# A)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 13 (C Eb G B Db F# A)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 13 (C Eb G B D# F# A)


    Sometimes complex chords may be simplified as stacks of simpler things (polychords)


    Triads over two note chords:
    Db minor over C Bb results in C7 #5 b9
    D major over E Bb results in C7 #11
    Eb major over C E results in C7 #9
    F# major over C E results in C7 b5 b9
    F# minor over E Bb results in C7 b5 b9
    A major over C Bb results in C7 b9


    Chords over chords:
    Ab major over C major results in C7 #11 b9D major over C7 results in C9 13 #11
    A major over C7 resulting in C13 b9
    Ab major over C7 resulting in C7 #5 #9
    Eb minor over C7 resulting in C7 #9 #11D major over Cmaj7 results in Cmaj13 #11
    D minor seventh over C minor seventh results in Cm13
    Abmaj7 over C7 results in C7 #9 b13
    A6 over C7 results in C13 b9 #11


    Progressions may be described by the Roman numeral system, which identifies the root of a chord by substituting the Roman numeral corresponding to that root's scale degree (including relative accidentals as needed) of the key of the progression. Major chords use upper case, minor chords use lower case. Here is an example of how common chord progression changes are shown schematically; ...follow the arrows, branching points, cycles, etc.


    OK, I've memorised all that. What next?

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladders
    OK, I've memorised all that. What next?
    Where to start with chord theory?-2d9a857e-f57a-4d1b-8583-2878e81b1711-jpeg

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Come on guys, really no different than having a couple of theory books on the shelf. Learn songs the hard way by ear, discover things, then check the book if you want to find out what others have called the things you discovered. It is raw reference material, not a regular lesson plan; but for more advanced folks, maybe every blue moon or so deliberately play through the list of chords or the progression paths to calibrate your horizon, then off to the songs again.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    You have an excellent head start from playing your horn; on the guitar, let yourself find things and figure them out (its really good for you), then look briefly and casually at the theory stuff periodically and see what you recognize of what you discovered yourself... let the theory naturally back fill your knowledge as you go forward (don't take it too seriously).


    That said, here is some reference theory stuff.


    Chord theory has two main parts; the construction of the sounds of chords themselves, and the way they form sequences of sounds to make songs.


    These chord constructions are rooted on C below, kind of spelled out for clarity - there are a few versions of the compact chord symbology which you will want to learn how to interpret (also, guitarists don't play all the notes, usually start dropping out the lower octave chord tones as the extensions and alterations are added into the upper octave):


    C Major (C E G)
    C Minor (C Eb G)
    C Augmented (C E G#)
    C Diminished (C Eb Gb)
    C Dominant 7th (C E G Bb)
    C Major 7th (C E G B)
    C Minor 7th (C Eb G Bb)
    C Minor Maj 7th (C Eb G B)
    C Aug 7 (C E G# Bb)
    C Aug Maj 7 (C E G# B)
    C Half Dim 7 (C Eb G Bb)
    C Full Dim 7 (C Eb Gb Bbb)
    C Dim Maj 7 (C Eb Gb B)
    C 9 (C E G Bb D)
    C b9 (C E G Bb Db)
    C #9 (C E G Bb D#)
    C Maj 9 (C E G B D)
    C Maj b9 (C E G B Db)
    C Maj #9 (C E G B D#)
    C Min 9 (C Eb G Bb D)
    C Min b9 (C Eb G Bb Db)
    C Min Maj 9 (C Eb G B D)
    C Min Maj b9 (C Eb G B Db)
    C Min Maj #9 (C Eb G B D#)
    C Aug 9 (C E G# Bb D)
    C Aug b9 (C E G# Bb Db)
    C Aug #9 (C E G# Bb D#)
    C Aug Maj 9 (C E G# B D)
    C Aug Maj b9 (C E G# B Db)
    C Aug Maj #9 (C E G# B D#)
    C Half Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bb D)
    C Half Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bb Db)
    C Dim 9 (C Eb Gb Bbb D)
    C Dim b9 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db)
    C Dim Maj 9 (C Eb Gb B D)
    C Dim Maj b9 (C Eb Gb B Db)
    C 11 (C E G Bb D F)
    C b9 11 (C E G Bb Db F)
    C #9 11 (C E G Bb D# F)
    C #11 (C E G Bb D F#)
    C b9 #11 (C E G Bb Db F#)
    C #9 #11 (C E G Bb D# F#)
    C Maj 11 (C E G B D F)
    C Maj b9 11 (C E G B Db F)
    C Maj #9 11 (C E G B D# F)
    C Maj #11 (C E G B D F#)
    C Maj b9 #11 (C E G B Db F#)
    C Maj #9 #11 (C E G B D# F#)
    C Min 11 (C Eb G Bb D F)
    C Min b9 11 (C Eb G Bb Db F)
    C Min #9 11 (C Eb G Bb D# F)
    C Min #11 (C Eb G Bb D F#)
    C Min b9 #11 (C Eb G Bb Db F#)
    C Min #9 #11 (C Eb G Bb D# F#)
    C Min Maj 11 (C Eb G B D F)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F)
    C Min Maj #9 11 (C Eb G B D# F)
    C Min Maj #11 (C Eb G B D F#)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 (C Eb G B Db F#)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 (C Eb G B D# F#)
    C Aug 11 (C E G# Bb D F)
    C Aug b9 11 (C E G# Bb Db F)
    C Aug #9 11 (C E G# Bb D# F)
    C Aug #11 (C E G# Bb D F#)
    C Aug b9 #11 (C E G# Bb Db F#)
    C Aug #9 #11 (C E G# Bb D# F#)
    C Aug Maj 11 (C E G# B D F)
    C Aug Maj b9 11 (C E G# B Db F)
    C Aug Maj #9 11 (C E G# B D# F)
    C Aug Maj #11 (C E G# B D F#)
    C Aug Maj b9 #11 (C E G# B Db F#)
    C Aug Maj #9 #11 (C E G# B D# F#)
    C Half Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bb D F)
    C Half Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bb Db F)
    C Dim 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb D F)
    C Dim b9 11 (C Eb Gb Bbb Db F)
    C Dim Maj 11 (C Eb Gb B D F)
    C Dim Maj b9 11 (C Eb Gb B D F#)
    C 13 (C E G Bb D F A)
    C b9 11 13 (C E G Bb Db F A)
    C #9 11 13 (C E G Bb D# F A)
    C #11 13 (C E G Bb D F# A)
    C b9 #11 13 (C E G Bb Db F# A)
    C #9 #11 13 (C E G Bb D# F# A)
    C Maj13 (C E G B D F A)
    C Maj b9 11 13 (C E G B Db F A)
    C Maj #9 11 13 (C E G B D# F A)
    C Maj #11 13 (C E G B D F# A)
    C Maj b9 #11 13 (C E G B Db F# A)
    C Maj #9 #11 13 (C E G B D# F# A)
    C Min11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F A)
    C Min b9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F A)
    C Min #9 11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F A)
    C Min #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D F# A)
    C Min b9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb Db F# A)
    C Min #9 #11 13 (C Eb G Bb D# F# A)
    C Min Maj 13 (C Eb G B D F A)
    C Min Maj b9 11 (C Eb G B Db F A)
    C Min Maj #9 11 13 (C Eb G B D# F A)
    C Min Maj #11 13 (C Eb G B D F# A)
    C Min Maj b9 #11 13 (C Eb G B Db F# A)
    C Min Maj #9 #11 13 (C Eb G B D# F# A)


    Sometimes complex chords may be simplified as stacks of simpler things (polychords)


    Triads over two note chords:
    Db minor over C Bb results in C7 #5 b9
    D major over E Bb results in C7 #11
    Eb major over C E results in C7 #9
    F# major over C E results in C7 b5 b9
    F# minor over E Bb results in C7 b5 b9
    A major over C Bb results in C7 b9


    Chords over chords:
    Ab major over C major results in C7 #11 b9D major over C7 results in C9 13 #11
    A major over C7 resulting in C13 b9
    Ab major over C7 resulting in C7 #5 #9
    Eb minor over C7 resulting in C7 #9 #11D major over Cmaj7 results in Cmaj13 #11
    D minor seventh over C minor seventh results in Cm13
    Abmaj7 over C7 results in C7 #9 b13
    A6 over C7 results in C13 b9 #11


    Progressions may be described by the Roman numeral system, which identifies the root of a chord by substituting the Roman numeral corresponding to that root's scale degree (including relative accidentals as needed) of the key of the progression. Major chords use upper case, minor chords use lower case. Here is an example of how common chord progression changes are shown schematically; ...follow the arrows, branching points, cycles, etc.


    The parts list looks complete, but I think you might want to check the diagram. Looks like you have a ground loop there (as evidenced by the buzzing in my head looking at this triggered).

    John

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Could have been worse...

    Where to start with chord theory?-coltrabe-jpg

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Gladders -

    Google 'chord theory' and take your pick. Easier.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    Could have been worse...

    Where to start with chord theory?-coltrabe-jpg
    Don't read that backwards after midnight...

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    yea... chord construction or what notes etc... usually comes after getting some basic musical knowledge.

    For most musicians... chord theory involves understanding chord movement. Which is like counterpoint but two dimensional. A few more layers of guidelines.

    Usually most start with Diatonic Functional Harmony Theory.


    Diatonic........notes and chords constructed from a Scale

    Functional..... Chords and chord progressions... movement or at rest with reference to a given Key, fall into one of three types of Function. Tonic, subdominant and dominant... the functional thing is the type of movement or rest implied.

    Harmony....... the chordal or vertical structure of music... in contrast to contrapuntal or horizontal.

    Theory.......... study of practices and possibilities of music.


    Anyway.... start with Diatonic Chords constructed from scales, usually 1) Maj/Min. 2)Harmonic and 3) Melodic Min.
    then Symmetrical scales, dim. and whole tone etc... the last 20 years Harmonic Maj.

    That's a lot of work just there... eventually you'll learn how chords fall into Functional groups. And then you'll learn how to expand possibilities using more types of organizations that create different results...

    You really can't get into possibilities without knowing the basic language, terms and what they imply etc...

    I understand all this BS and actually use it, if you want more just ask.

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Gladders -

    No one could possibly enlighten you about chord theory here without starting a book (!) and taking up most of the page. Even then I doubt if it would go much further than the melodic minor chords. And there's debate about them.

    You need a dedicated website, if not a study course. Really. And, though this may be controversial, it wouldn't help you learn much about the guitar either. For that the general advice would be to start playing tunes. Learn on the job, how the chords are arranged and what, and how, to play over them.

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    Like most discussions on theory, I ask: what is one trying to accomplished as it relates to the playing of their instrument?

    I.e. what are the practical implications? (assuming that is the main driver for learning).

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladders
    I've been playing guitar on and off for years. I play trumpet to a medium grade, but my theory is useless. I'm learning jazz guitar and having a great time playing the licks and chord studies, but I know I'm going to have to confront the theory at some point.

    The question is, where to start?
    Start by taking harmony classes with a teacher who explains EVERY theoretical construct in sound. You can't understand it if you can't hear it. While you can take the self-taught route, harmony is a LOT easier to understand if someone lays it out for you. Community college classes are cheap or free, and there are some great teachers lurking in the community college circuit. Also, you will meet other players, which can help a lot in getting gigs.

    Good luck,

    SJ

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Gladders -

    start playing tunes. Learn on the job, how the chords are arranged and what, and how, to play over them.
    This is great advice. It's all about tunes. There are lists of jazz standards everybody should know (g) all over. Pick 10 (Bruce Forman, I think, lists 10) and start there. Then another list of 20 or 50. Play the tunes and get familiar with the way the chords move -- since there are lots of common movements. In fact, you can get lists of the common movements and the tunes that contain them.

    Learning how chords are constructed and named is maybe an hour or two of work -- and you can get that from Levine's book, Jazz Theory, or from websites. This book also covers many ideas for what to play over a single chord, or chord progression.

    The sound comes first. You can know sound without theory, but theory won't do you much good if you don't know the sounds.

    Tunes. Chord melody.

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Unless you're happy to remain an academic, of course :-)

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    OK... he did say what he wants from his study of theory... Chord Theory. At the moment he can only play memorized licks and Chord studies. Meaning he knows that to actually play jazz in a jazz style he need to understand what and how chords and chord progressions work in a jazz style. And please don't get into the melody is the guide to a Jazz Life etc... BS.

    So Gladders...the study of Jazz theory starts with basic traditional Music theory.... What's the difference between Maj/min functional harmony and Modal Functional Harmony. 20+ years ago was basic one of a few basic questions I asked music grad students... and in 10 words or less. Most to my embarrassment failed miserably.

    Anyway...it's not that complicated and you don't need teachers. You actually need to just do the basic work. You need to notate or write out the material... not just play it. Theory will help your ears get their shit together.

    You'll learn terms and what they can imply or be in different contexts with different references. The sound is not everything unless you can understand what the sound can imply to other people also.

    Yea playing tunes is great and yes one needs to hear.... but who gets into theory with out being able play or hear. And generally many players just can't really hear... (or play), it's like there there is only one color and everything is a version of that color... the Vanilla Syndrome.

    Don't get hung up on the BS... (mine included), I'll be happy to help, there are probable others.... I can cover... which only means I can also play at a professional level and arrange or compose music on paper...without an instrument, I can hear music on paper, which if your a professional is just part of the job.

    The old approach of learning on your instrument takes a life time... and that's if you actually put in the time playing gigs with enough different musicians.