-
There's (1) theory and (2) applied theory (on your instrument/instruments). It's not either/or, it's both, even if one's ambition stops at the guitar. Learn both and you'll learn faster/better.
And - if one intends to compose or arrange for ensembles that are anything other than tiny? Possessing only a geetar picker's knowledge of harmony/theory ain't gonna get the job done.
-
03-24-2021 10:09 PM
-
Alan Kingstone says ‘you are either a gripper or a mover.’ (Grips as in chord shapes.)
The former can be characterised as vertical harmony, the second as counterpoint.
Guitar by its necessity starts off as a grips oriented instrument, and some carry on in that vein. But you aren’t limited to that in the long run. Chord grips and voicings (including extended voicings) are like frozen instants in musical time, still images in a movie.
(Practically, it’s good to become flexible in your fingerings if you want to develop a more moving version of harmony.)
however, starting with grips is a time honoured way to go about things. So if you’re new to it, do that for a few years. You can use grips as a basis for chord melody, soloing and comping without necessarily having to know a ton of theory. Many greats of the past have done exactly this.
Theory is the map of the piano not the guitar, in a way. Or, should I say, it is much easier to put theoretical ideas onto the keyboard. Hence, learning at the piano is the best way of learning theory. I’ve got a lot from taking things from the piano onto the guitar (I’m a terrible pianist btw.)
-
Originally Posted by Gladders
-
Christian... that gripper and mover analogy... really. I don't think Gladders a kid. It's almost like there are two flavors in life... Vanilla and chocolate.
Piano is just a visual tool.
-
Thank you everyone. There's some really helpful stuff here.
My main take-away is, don't worry about it. Just play. So I'll do that and let it all fall into place gradually. That suits me just fine.
Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
-
Yeah. One of my teachers compared music to a building site. I like that analogy.
-
Originally Posted by Gladders
Whether it was necessary for drums to be loud enough ( back in the jungle days ) or orchestras to be loud enough
( back in Victorian days )
big bands ( 40's 50's ) or just Franz List banging away in a parlor, volume was vital.
It doesn't make the piano the perfect learning machine and can lead to guitaritis ( why am I spending so much time on guitar when the knowledge is on the piano? ).
Ironically the instrument laid out CHROMATICALLY ( well designed to teach music ) is used to teach Western TERTIARY theory.
So we all start out the same and then piano players head right for drop two voicing which is probably introduced in book 1 of the Mel Bay Guitar series.
-
Well historically it was the quietest instrument - the clavichord.... so ...
-
Don't play standards if you don't like them.
-
On the other hand, don't keep choosing tunes that you can play blues and pentatonics over and kid yourself you're playing jazz... cause you ain't.
Besides, categorising hundreds of tunes under one name as 'standards' and thinking all standards are boring and old fashioned is an excuse.
('You' means anyone. Not being personal to you, Litterick)
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
an early keyboard instrument producing a soft sound by means of metal blades
attached to the inner ends of the keys gently striking the strings.
-
Originally Posted by WILSON 1
Bebung - Wikipedia
-
Originally Posted by ragman1
-
Originally Posted by WILSON 1
-
Whoa, that's a fascinating instrument.
-
David Berkman's The Jazz Harmony Book is all about practical application with no indulgence in theory for theory's sake. I find it very good and very clear. The Open Studio website, run by two other master piano players, is also very good IMO.
-
Originally Posted by Litterick
-
Originally Posted by ragman1
-
Originally Posted by Litterick
We study them to understand those functions which are then applied to other "more modern" tunes.
I never liked a musician who didn't know what he / she was rejecting.
-
Music aside, the social aspect of the music is so important Miles called jazz ‘social music.’ Standards are a lingua franca. They allow the social music to happen.
Without them we’re jamming on vamps. (Or we could do free jazz I suppose.)
Standards are also super flexible. You can change a lot about them and the melodies are strong enough to support this.
unless someone comes up with a new standard repertoire that is. (Are pop songs today good jazz vehicles?)
if Litterick can teach me something he likes in a few minutes, grand, we can play some music. Works with singer songwriter and so on. But OTW modern jazz compositions are complicated and require elite level sight reading or rehearsal (or both)
So you lose that conversational aspect of the music. I’m open to a new repertoire but I don’t know what that would be exactly. Perhaps the schools are standardising everything too much.
-
Originally Posted by Litterick
-
Bert Ligon' s Jazz Theory Resources Volume 1 is the best beginner jazz chord theory text IMO. Basic functional harmony starting point as opposed to CST. We used to have a lot of people on the forum triggered by the Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine. Anyway, Ligon is somewhat a balancing source.
Anyway, it's largely what Reg always talks about.
1) Learn 7 scale degrees of major, spelled as 13ths.
2) 7 scale degrees of harmonic minor, spelled as 13ths.
3) 7 scale degrees of melodic minor- spelled as 13ths.
Honestly, those cover almost everything, at least basic theoretical starting points. Secondary dominants and their tritones will imply a chord from one of those scales.
Harmonic minor is especially important from theoretical standpoint (because it's functional), but melodic minor may have more practical use from a playing perspective. It's important to understand things, like the fact that altered "references" harmonic minor's functional application, and doesn't make much sense without understanding that relationship. (Most #'5s are really b13' s, or at least that's their functional basis, again, most of the time).
Anyway, Ligon is highly recommended.
-
Originally Posted by Litterick
-
Originally Posted by ragman1
-
Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar
Chief Xian aTunde Adjuah (Christian Scott)
Today, 12:32 AM in The Players