The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    eric gale was never really a burner...he was a rhythm chops specialist..him and cornell dupree wove some nice guitar lines in stuff...but was never known for blazing solo playing

    his distorted lead tone from a full hollowbody doesn't help either

    mister magic was not groundbreaking jazz..it was aimed at the dance/disco crowd...very formula nyc cti sound...with that typical of the era steve gadd drum sound...bah

    cheers

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  3. #27

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    I thought he did about as well as could be expected, given how repititious the song was. Disco era music.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Sounds like a jazz guy suddenly asked to play a blues solo on a jazz box with flatwounds.
    This

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I think it’s an interesting question actually. People hear differently and you can learn a lot from how other people hear.

    The way you hear music will be the most important influence on how you play it...
    This is probably true, and exactly this is because it should not be a goal. I mean learning too much how others, especially the mainstream hear, points to the direction to a statistical equalization in hearing, then playing. Maybe understanding is overrated. Maybe many artists never understand what others, the listeners "understand into" their creations.

  6. #30

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    I don't think the OP is missing anything. It's a pretty perfunctory solo. (Then again, who hasn't played a solo that felt like ten blind thumbs in search of a groove!) But Eric Gale could, and did, do better. I always thought his solo on the Grover Washington album version of "Trouble Man" was pretty good. Nothing too fancy, but some very tasty (and spacey) jazz-blues licks -- kind of Kenny Burrell with a side order of psychedelia. Gale's solo starts about 1:45.


  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    This is probably true, and exactly this is because it should not be a goal. I mean learning too much how others, especially the mainstream hear, points to the direction to a statistical equalization in hearing, then playing. Maybe understanding is overrated. Maybe many artists never understand what others, the listeners "understand into" their creations.
    Maybe, but I think there’s a typical nature vs nurture element to this. I think I was always drawn to the stuff I was drawn to by temperament.

    Most in the ‘mainstream’ don’t hear like musicians anyway. Which is not to say what they hear is worthless (actually I think learning to pop for instance on its own terms has taken me a long time after getting into more ‘complex’ music.)

    I agree that understanding is also not just overrated but to some extent essentially impossible. You always place yourself into the act of listening; this is why learning solos etc is actually a process of self discovery, not mere imitation.

  8. #32

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    Yeah, well you notice this kinda thing a lot, all over the world, and probably for many decades - Smoking hot Jazz players burning it up with their solos until the guitarist's solo, which sometimes is "high school blues jam" level that any rank amateur guitar player would recognise, and yet, the other players, and perhaps much of the audience, probably think it's high level playing or something!

    Often wondered why that is, perhaps it's because they expect different sounds and ideas to come from guitar players, you know, those box shaped pentatonic riffs that amateur noodlers love and the same ol' bendy licks you learned in your first month of playing. Sounds embarrassing to guitar players who outgrew that stuff ages ago, but in the 60's and 70's it was a hip new sound to some, which is why you hear a lot of Grant Green doin' the "Boogooloo" even though the dude obviously had some decent hard bop chops.

    Oh, and I still notice amazing sax players talk in serious admiration of this kind of rank guitar playing, as though they don't recognise that entry level blues noodling is as common as muck. They also fail to realise that what high level sax playing entails is perhaps a thousand times more interesting, difficult, and compelling when compared to the 3 lick wonders out there .

    Yeah, I know some of you will find this offensive because you feel the Eric Gale solo was fine, but it has long been a pet peeve of mine when I see a hot jazz band with a lame guitar player who is obviously bluffing their way into the gig. The other players are A+ players, but the guitar whacker is a D-, and no one seems to notice or care. If the piano or horn players were only, say, B+ standard, they wouldn't have made it past the audition!. Ya feelin' me?

  9. #33

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    Or another, more respectful way of looking at it is that a pro guitarists job is to play rhythm guitar really really well and anything else is the icing on the cake.

    Plenty of burning soloists out there, but great rhythm guitarists? Always in work.

  10. #34

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    Oh man I absolutely LOVE this solo! Everything about it- the tone, the phrasing, the vibe- even some imperfections sounds great. I love guitarists who attack the instrument, rather than smooth playing. Albert Collins, Frank Zappa, they would totally dig this!

    If someone can find that as bad guitar playing I def at odds with the guitar community. I guess what most people like, I don't, and vice versa.

  11. #35

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    On the top posted video and the Montreux concert with Stuff. I felt he was more or less noodling.

    He seems much more engaged as a band leader. It’s mostly a bunch of blues licks, but a crowd-pleaser.

  12. #36

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    He’s most definitely engaged on his 1988 album with Ron Carter.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Can you help me understand what I am missing in this solo?




    I agree that solo suited the piece as much as anything would, except many players would have blasted it a hundred times better and more excitingly.
    Who do you have in mind? Who would do 100 better?

    I can't help but think many would prefer someone like Larry Carlton in this style, and to me what he represents is a middle of the road, very predictable and anti-exciting solos. Just not inspiring at all. I take Eric Gales solo any day over some pseudo blues shit.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Over pseudo blues, obviously, but not over jazz at a jazz festival. They're playing Bloomdido. That's a bebop number by Charlie Parker! Not Elmore James!

    If they only play jazz at jazz festivals there would be no crowd. Anything that swings or grooves is fair to be featured. Very few care about bebop or purity of jazz, including me.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I agree, but I'm not being purist, it was just the wrong kind of blues for a jazz number. Repeating it makes it sound like I care desperately... but I don't :-)

    Who do I think could have done it better? Um... I'd take Scofield or Metheny, probably.
    Oh well, if only Sco and Metheny could have done better, Gale did a bloody good job.


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  16. #40

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    I like the other recordings posted. Vibey player.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Over pseudo blues, obviously, but not over jazz at a jazz festival. They're playing Bloomdido. That's a bebop number by Charlie Parker, not John Lee Hooker!

    Errr... have you been to any jazz festivals?
    Last edited by christianm77; 11-01-2020 at 06:06 AM.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I agree, but I'm not being purist, it was just the wrong kind of blues for a jazz number. Repeating it makes it sound like I care desperately... but I don't :-)

    Who do I think could have done it better? Um... I'd take Scofield or Metheny, probably.
    Def not Metheny lol. Sco would done good, but different of course. Nah, Eric Gales just fits better on this. IMO and for my taste.

    I kinda care, because imagine you have a sound in your head that you trying to achieve and aspire to play, and then find out that this sound and style considered faulty or something. Not jazz, cant play at jazz gigs like that wow, ok, turn out never cared to play jazz then?

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Yeah, well you notice this kinda thing a lot, all over the world, and probably for many decades - Smoking hot Jazz players burning it up with their solos until the guitarist's solo, which sometimes is "high school blues jam" level that any rank amateur guitar player would recognise, and yet, the other players, and perhaps much of the audience, probably think it's high level playing or something!

    Often wondered why that is, perhaps it's because they expect different sounds and ideas to come from guitar players, you know, those box shaped pentatonic riffs that amateur noodlers love and the same ol' bendy licks you learned in your first month of playing. Sounds embarrassing to guitar players who outgrew that stuff ages ago, but in the 60's and 70's it was a hip new sound to some, which is why you hear a lot of Grant Green doin' the "Boogooloo" even though the dude obviously had some decent hard bop chops.

    Oh, and I still notice amazing sax players talk in serious admiration of this kind of rank guitar playing, as though they don't recognise that entry level blues noodling is as common as muck. They also fail to realise that what high level sax playing entails is perhaps a thousand times more interesting, difficult, and compelling when compared to the 3 lick wonders out there .

    Yeah, I know some of you will find this offensive because you feel the Eric Gale solo was fine, but it has long been a pet peeve of mine when I see a hot jazz band with a lame guitar player who is obviously bluffing their way into the gig. The other players are A+ players, but the guitar whacker is a D-, and no one seems to notice or care. If the piano or horn players were only, say, B+ standard, they wouldn't have made it past the audition!. Ya feelin' me?
    Thinking about how to express myself on this one, I read your post and felt like you read my mind. That solo sounded like he was struggling in every way - tone, timing, concept, phrasing, and feel.

  20. #44

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    Can you help me understand what I am missing in this solo?-playing-shop-jpg

  21. #45

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    Eric Gale indeed looks tensed up and not content with what he is doing.
    The spot is not comfortable - an up tempo 2 chord vamp with 'disco feel'.
    What could work back then with a guitar: bluesy phrasing + bends requiring lots of sustain or sustained fast runs ala Blackmore or some really strong lines.

    He seems to be trying to do all 3, but neither gear nor his style fit.

    Said that, as a way to say 'hello' to the audience the solo is totally fine. There are not too many discerning guitar players and the groove of the band is strong, so I'm sure nobody cared

  22. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    @SandChannel, for fun, post a video of a solo that you enjoyed! [I probably have a couple hundred saved on my YouTube account!]
    Sure - I can even do one better. This track also features Gales, but I really dig his solo on this one. It is kinda strikes me as Benson meets Burrell but rougher around the edges. (Starts right around 1:50)


  23. #47

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    He's shooting for Santana-style lines using the wrong tools, IMO. Hand that same archtop to Benson and he would kill it.

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by SandChannel
    Sure - I can even do one better. This track also features Gales, but I really dig his solo on this one. It is kinda strikes me as Benson meets Burrell but rougher around the edges. (Starts right around 1:50)

    This is the same guy, playing the same style, but, on the record, he's executing his ideas whereas in the live clip he was clearly having some physical difficulty. It's the kind of thing that happens if you're too cold, or not sufficiently relaxed, or if you can't hear everything in balance, if your gear sounds bad to you because it's not adjusted properly, you're not feeling well etc.

    One of the hallmarks of a pro player is that he sounds good even when all the planets are aligned against him. That's not a comment about Eric Gale, though. I don't know what was going on in this performance. And, his comping on Mr. Magic is one of the great bits of rhythm guitar ever, IMO.

  25. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    This is the same guy, playing the same style, but, on the record, he's executing his ideas whereas in the live clip he was clearly having some physical difficulty. It's the kind of thing that happens if you're too cold, or not sufficiently relaxed, or if you can't hear everything in balance, if your gear sounds bad to you because it's not adjusted properly, you're not feeling well etc.

    One of the hallmarks of a pro player is that he sounds good even when all the planets are aligned against him. That's not a comment about Eric Gale, though. I don't know what was going on in this performance. And, his comping on Mr. Magic is one of the great bits of rhythm guitar ever, IMO.
    The Mr. Magic clip I posted was the last song played into an hour and 15 minute set, so I would hope he was warmed up by then. Maybe he just wasn't feeling it? I dunno. Gales sounds great on the records, but I would guess that most of these guys are studio players and nail a song in a take or two. I haven't listened to him live that often so I was surprised that he sounded (IMO) off. I guess I figured that these studio hawks would sound the same in front of a crowd.

  26. #50

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    Hi guys- first-time poster.

    I remember this tune and Eric's playing with Stuff and others- I graduated from high school in the mid 70s.

    If you listen to his playing on other albums he is using the same music vocabulary and the same tone. Either a Super 400 or L-5 through a clean Fender/Musciman amp with minimal effects (Phaser, Wah). Eric was never a real jazz guy, but was really an R&B/Funk/Soul player- he was a late-60's-early 70's transitional guy playing a Jazz guitar with a gritty funk approach. The tone is not far from early George Benson, but the note choices are not typical jazz vocabulary- too many bends for jazz.

    I remember his sound because it is distinctive: gritty, clean and bluesy. I think it's because he had that unique funk/blues style that he became recognized. Listen to his earliest album, "Forecast" to hear the funk- not much jazz going on with it.