The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #151

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    Learn your notes, scales, licks. You haven't, that's obvious in your playing.

    Nothing to do with me. I could be the worst guitarist in the world and it would still be true.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

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  4. #153

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    It sounded like you have a some nice things going. Only thing I might offer is..

    play something a little slower,
    use more space (i.e. take more "breaths" like a horn player)
    emulate more minimalistic and melodic players for a little while (Dexter Gordon comes to mind, Grant Green maybe)
    then inch toward the busier bebop style, remaining in full control of your ideas as you progress
    keep working, working, working

  5. #154

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    Thanks for sharing your playing!
    The tempo you try to play is too high. It is about 102 on the 2 and 4. Therefor you stumble over your 8ths or try to avoid them.
    You have to get back in tempo f.e. 70 on beats 2 and 4 and groove and swing with very simple 8ths.
    And with that feeling, the groove and swing, you very slowly increase the speed and swing on f.e. 75.
    etc. etc. But keep that groove and swing feel, which might mean that you cannot play what you use to play. So you will have to redefine your licks and ideas.

    Here is an example:


    Hans

  6. #155

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    Those videos you posted, you're playing the song too fast and stumbling around. Slow it down a bit, if you can't get through the head how are you expecting to improvise.

  7. #156

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  8. #157

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    Nice playing!

    If you didn't sourpuss when you made a mistake it wouldn't even notice.

  9. #158

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    Try using a looper or other recording device and lay down a few choruses of comping for yourself. Focus on playing good solid time and then solo against that recording. Do it at a tempo you're very comfortable with at first. Eventually you'll want to work your way out of your comfort level. Jam tracks are good too, but I recommend starting with your own home made jam track. It will make things more intuitive for you.

    You sound good; you just need to focus on that inner groove.

  10. #159

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    hi lionelsax,
    i think you are on the right path, and your goal to improvise through a jazz blues form with a metronome on 2 and 4 seems reasonable.

    from what i have seen from this thread it seems to me though as if you don't simplfiy things enough for a practice purpose. don't confuse playing with practicing

    first of all i think you should slow way down, about half of the tempo you would usually play it, so for the purpose of practice 70 bpm or even slower if it needs to be is just fine. don't underestimate this. slowing things down has it's own challenges, and it will help you to reveal weaknesses. by this you also practice audiating things in different tempos (very useful). don't increase tempo until you can do it easily and reliably at a very slow tempo.

    also narrow things down: use a simple rhythmic motif, 1 or 2 bars and improvise using only chord tones and this motif to play through the whole 12 bar form. it could be as easy as just playing one note each bar. this is also an exercise in maintaining focus. if that is still too difflicult, narrow it down even more and only play on the first 4 bars, the 2nd 4 bars or the 3rd 4 bars of the form to familiarize yourself with that part. always try to make an exercise like this as easy as possible in the beginning so you can do it without going tense and overstressing your brain (and thus limiting it's potential to maintain focus) and then gradually increase diffliculty until you reach a point where it is kind of difflicult but still doable, and then remain at this point until it's not difflicult anymore and increase diffliculty again.
    it should always be easy enough so you still have brain capacity left to play with a clean technique and have full control over what you play.

    if it's getting too easy you can challenge yourself by playing through the form multiple times in a row, and each time through, you switch to a different rhythmic motif. preferably, have a list of them written out so you don't have to make them up on the spot. you must narrow down the factors of improvisation to really get the form down. if this is getting too easy as well, you may increase the tempo.

    good luck on your quest, c.

  11. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    learn your notes, scales, licks. You haven't, that's obvious in your playing.

    Nothing to do with me. I could be the worst guitarist in the world and it would still be true.
    lol

  12. #161

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    Hi lionelsax,

    just stumbled upon this thread and had a listen to some of your videos.

    If I just take the 3 videos from post #154 this are my impressions:

    First I agree with the other posters, the tempo you're in is way too fast for practising purposes. In this tempo you're practising the mistakes you - inevitably - make.

    Second I have the impression that you do not really listen to the backing track while playing. You start the phrase on point but after a couple of notes (4 -5) you drift away. At the end of every phrase you're not in sync with the playback any more.

    My impression is that you go with some kind of autopilot through every phrase, and because your timing is no more coupled to the backing, you never surface on point when you end the phrase.

    It happens even in the head.

    This for me is a sign, that you don't listen while you play. Maybe you're too loud in the room too (that worsens the effect). Try playing softer and increase the volume of the backing track.

    You and the band (a.k.a. backing track) must be locked in like the teeth of a zipper. Check your listening.

  13. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonEsteban
    Hi lionelsax,

    just stumbled upon this thread and had a listen to some of your videos.

    If I just take the 3 videos from post #154 this are my impressions:

    First I agree with the other posters, the tempo you're in is way too fast for practising purposes. In this tempo you're practising the mistakes you - inevitably - make.

    Second I have the impression that you do not really listen to the backing track while playing. You start the phrase on point but after a couple of notes (4 -5) you drift away. At the end of every phrase you're not in sync with the playback any more.

    My impression is that you go with some kind of autopilot through every phrase, and because your timing is no more coupled to the backing, you never surface on point when you end the phrase.

    It happens even in the head.

    This for me is a sign, that you don't listen while you play. Maybe you're too loud in the room too (that worsens the effect). Try playing softer and increase the volume of the backing track.

    You and the band (a.k.a. backing track) must be locked in like the teeth of a zipper. Check your listening.
    Hi ! Thanks for listening ! Yes you're right, the backing track was not loud enough. That was one of the things.
    I resolved the problems with a looper.
    I let all the videos because I like keeping episodes of my Story.
    Thanks again. I may lock this thread.

  14. #163

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  15. #164

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    I listened to the vids and tried counting along.

    What I think is happening is that when u hesitate or make a mistake, instead of just glossing over it and carrying on to the same beat, you're slowing up, then staring again, throwing the timing off. Or allowing the blip to throw u off where u are in the bar.

    Dunno what to advise, the thing I do when messing about with blues on my own is to tap my teeth and imagine the bass line as I play on. Dunno how in time it shows as I don't really record it, but I enjoy it anyway and don't have any problems playing with others or a backing track.

  16. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKong
    I listened to the vids and tried counting along.

    What I think is happening is that when u hesitate or make a mistake, instead of just glossing over it and carrying on to the same beat, you're slowing up, then staring again, throwing the timing off. Or allowing the blip to throw u off where u are in the bar.

    Dunno what to advise, the thing I do when messing about with blues on my own is to tap my teeth and imagine the bass line as I play on. Dunno how in time it shows as I don't really record it, but I enjoy it anyway and don't have any problems playing with others or a backing track.

    Tap your teeth? I'm sure all the dentists are cringing reading that line.

  17. #166

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    To the O.P. - I have to second the "knock off the metronome" advice previously mentioned.

    What will help is to know the 12 bar STRUCTURE - inside and out over under sideways down By that I mean, you do not have think about where you are at, you just feel it. That will be the day you "get it". You just feel where you are at.

    It happened to me at some point, I don't remember when or where but I realized that I just felt the changes. I laughed when I remembered that I used to stress on blues changes as being "hard".

    That comes first, in my opinion. I mean don't worry so much about soloing as such. Get the structure internalized.

    If you wanna see some guys who are not thinking, but just playing their asses off watch this: They're feeling it, lol.

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChazFromCali
    To the O.P. - I have to second the "knock off the metronome" advice previously mentioned.

    What will help is to know the 12 bar STRUCTURE - inside and out over under sideways down By that I mean, you do not have think about where you are at, you just feel it. That will be the day you "get it". You just feel where you are at.

    It happened to me at some point, I don't remember when or where but I realized that I just felt the changes. I laughed when I remembered that I used to stress on blues changes as being "hard".

    That comes first, in my opinion. I mean don't worry so much about soloing as such. Get the structure internalized.

    If you wanna see some guys who are not thinking, but just playing their asses off watch this: They're feeling it, lol.
    Great advice !
    Can you tell me what's happening here because I don't really know.

  19. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    Great advice !
    Can you tell me what's happening here because I don't really know.
    I'm not sure I know how to answer that question.

    You sound like you understand lines..... maybe a little stiff in a couple places, but you generally "got the concept." I dunno man, just listen to a lot of blues..... of all types.

    Get an acoustic guitar and as previously mentioned listen to Lightning Hopkins, JLH, etc. It occurs to me right this moment, get a copy of the first Fabulous Thunderbirds album. That record is a PRIMER on how to play old-school blues (electric) rhythm guitar, and the songs are fun to play.


    cheers
    Last edited by ChazFromCali; 10-12-2022 at 07:15 PM.

  20. #169

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    I remembered this from a guy named George Bouchard. He has an excellent jazz instructional book. Hope it helps.


    Some problems with blues-screenshot-2022-10-12-16-14-22-png
    Some problems with blues-screenshot-2022-10-12-16-17-32-png
    Attached Images Attached Images Some problems with blues-screenshot-2022-10-12-16-15-05-png 

  21. #170

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    What I noted in the video in post #156 of this thread is that you tap (in that case almost stomp) your foot on all for beats. While in traditional rural folk blues and urban forms directly derived from that many players do this — John Lee Hooker is famous for that —


    following the advice in this video


    and later this one (at ca.3:00)


    helped my jazz time feel a lot. It took a little while to get used to tapping on 1 and 3 but now I cannot imagine doing it any other way than than (except for slow ballads where I tap on all four beats).

  22. #171

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    Lionel -

    I've been watching you play right from your very first video to the latest one and I've always thought the same. I may be wrong but we'll see.

    I don't think your problem is timing. I've heard you swing perfectly well both on sax and guitar. What I think is this. The lines you're playing are quite complex. They're very jazzy and advanced. But the guitar isn't easy and the problem, in my view, is that your fingers can't keep up with your brain.

    You can hear something in your head. I think you know what you want to play. If your fingers could instantly play it without hesitation there'd be no problem. But that doesn't happen a lot of the time. There's a gap, a hiatus, between what you want to play and your fingers finding it. It's this pause that throws your timing because obviously it lags behind the beat. Which you call having a timing problem.

    My guess is that if you were playing something very, very simple, something you didn't have to think about, your timing problem would disappear. And I think you should try that and see.

    I've done some demo things for you in the past and you've said (correctly) what I was playing was too basic, too simplistic, for you. It wasn't what you wanted to hear. It wasn't the sort of jazz sound you like and want to play. I accept that. I know if I tried to play that kind of thing I'd be hesitating all over the place!

    So, again, try playing something much easier so your fingers are right there on the beat and see what happens. And if you must bang your foot on the floor, so be it

    I made this last night. Sorry about the lousy quality. It was late so it's fairly laid back, etc. I know it's not the sort of blues you like to play but that's not the point. The point is that it's on the beat, and it's a swing beat.

    When you see my hand dithering it's not nerves, it's because I'm thinking ahead. I know what the next chord/sound is but I have choices. What I'm doing is deciding which choice on the neck to make. But because I'm thinking ahead I can still hit the beat when I make up my mind, that's all.

    Now compare it with how you play. Are you thinking ahead or trying to decide on the instant? If you're trying to decide on the instant, by the time you've decided probably the beat has come and gone. It's all very fast but that's enough to throw your timing out.

    See what you think. Consider the hypothesis!


  23. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Lionel -

    I've been watching you play right from your very first video to the latest one and I've always thought the same. I may be wrong but we'll see.

    I don't think your problem is timing. I've heard you swing perfectly well both on sax and guitar. What I think is this. The lines you're playing are quite complex. They're very jazzy and advanced. But the guitar isn't easy and the problem, in my view, is that your fingers can't keep up with your brain.

    You can hear something in your head. I think you know what you want to play. If your fingers could instantly play it without hesitation there'd be no problem. But that doesn't happen a lot of the time. There's a gap, a hiatus, between what you want to play and your fingers finding it. It's this pause that throws your timing because obviously it lags behind the beat. Which you call having a timing problem.

    My guess is that if you were playing something very, very simple, something you didn't have to think about, your timing problem would disappear. And I think you should try that and see.

    I've done some demo things for you in the past and you've said (correctly) what I was playing was too basic, too simplistic, for you. It wasn't what you wanted to hear. It wasn't the sort of jazz sound you like and want to play. I accept that. I know if I tried to play that kind of thing I'd be hesitating all over the place!

    So, again, try playing something much easier so your fingers are right there on the beat and see what happens. And if you must bang your foot on the floor, so be it

    I made this last night. Sorry about the lousy quality. It was late so it's fairly laid back, etc. I know it's not the sort of blues you like to play but that's not the point. The point is that it's on the beat, and it's a swing beat.

    When you see my hand dithering it's not nerves, it's because I'm thinking ahead. I know what the next chord/sound is but I have choices. What I'm doing is deciding which choice on the neck to make. But because I'm thinking ahead I can still hit the beat when I make up my mind, that's all.

    Now compare it with how you play. Are you thinking ahead or trying to decide on the instant? If you're trying to decide on the instant, by the time you've decided probably the beat has come and gone. It's all very fast but that's enough to throw your timing out.

    See what you think. Consider the hypothesis!

    It's the first time I hear you playing so well.
    For your question, sometimes I play what I sing at the same time.
    Sometimes the fingers don't follow very well.
    I don't think in terms of chords but like if it were a road, going from point A to point B.
    I lose my timing when I'm thinking about my articulation, my mind leaves my body then I come back and figure out I lost the timing because of thinking too much.
    Phrases are not a real problem, my problem comes when I think of something I've got naturally.

  24. #173

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    That's right.

    There's a lot in your post. First, it's not easy to sing and play at the same time. I couldn't do it, I'd find singing a total distraction. But I've seen very good players do it.

    Then you say you don't think in terms of chords. I don't see why you shouldn't. I'm not suggesting slavishly and mechanically following each precise chord but the harmony is what it is and there's no way round it. A G is a G and a C7 is a C7. It has a sound, it's performing a function, it's necessary. So if your lines don't mirror that function what are you playing?

    That doesn't mean the sound of the line can't embellish that chord, it certainly can, but it mustn't usurp its function. Or, in short, one can insert tension and that tension can enhance the current chord and yet resolve to the next.

    Then there's thinking too much. Well, there's thinking and thinking. What you should be doing is listening, which is paying attention. But attentive listening can also include looking ahead. If what you mean by thinking takes you away from what you're doing then it's no more than day-dreaming, which is not attentive listening.

    I hope this isn't too complicated!

  25. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    That's right.

    There's a lot in your post. First, it's not easy to sing and play at the same time. I couldn't do it, I'd find singing a total distraction. But I've seen very good players do it.

    Then you say you don't think in terms of chords. I don't see why you shouldn't. I'm not suggesting slavishly and mechanically following each precise chord but the harmony is what it is and there's no way round it. A G is a G and a C7 is a C7. It has a sound, it's performing a function, it's necessary. So if your lines don't mirror that function what are you playing?

    That doesn't mean the sound of the line can't embellish that chord, it certainly can, but it mustn't usurp its function. Or, in short, one can insert tension and that tension can enhance the current chord and yet resolve to the next.

    Then there's thinking too much. Well, there's thinking and thinking. What you should be doing is listening, which is paying attention. But attentive listening can also include looking ahead. If what you mean by thinking takes you away from what you're doing then it's no more than day-dreaming, which is not attentive listening.

    I hope this isn't too complicated!
    I think in terms of forms (a blues is a blues, cadences are cadences, modulations are modulations) and structures, most of the time horizontally, I don't mind how the chords are made because I know what they are, their functions, I don't think about them. There are there. Don't forget that before playing jazz on the guitar, I played jazz on bass. I play lines.
    Have you ever noticed that I am more comfortable while I'm playing on the first frets ? I think in terms of notes, I know what they are, don't forget I'm a saxophonist. When I'm moving on the neck, it's less interesting because I play a lick like 90% of guitarists, on the other hand, guitarists want to hear licks they know. I invented "mine". They are not "mine" of course, they are what they are.
    Sometimes I feel good when I figure out I'm able to play a lonely phrase all over the changes, that's I'm working on these days.

  26. #175

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    I think in terms of forms (a blues is a blues, cadences are cadences, modulations are modulations) and structures, most of the time horizontally, I don't mind how the chords are made because I know what they are, their functions, I don't think about them.
    I may not have understood correctly but it all sounds very complicated to me. But I suppose if that's the way you find your notes, so be it!

    But what we're discussing here isn't how you choose your lines, it's about the gap between what your thought is telling you and its being relayed to your fingers. Which, it would seem, is responsible for the lag in timing.