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  1. #1

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    Hello all

    Ive been playing about 15 years. I fell into the noodle camp and long story short - im now focusing on my time and focus. Through this I've improved a lot, however Ive realised that i'm pretty dreadful at shifting mentally as the chord changes, and terrible at visualising scales. I can play my way round the CAGED shape pretty well in all keys, but i've realised i tend to feel my way, and often starting from a note other than the root throws me right off.

    Im dyslexic. I found this out late in life and on my recent realisation Im convinced this makes it harder than it 'should' be. However Im sure there are many musicians that are too, and either dont know or dont care... Im guessing its not an area many people research because if you are good nobody asks questions


    does anyone with dyslexia also struggle here ? does anyone without it also just find it really hard? can anyone suggest ways to improve their ability to visualise? do any teachers have any students that they have noticed this in ?

    Im not worried about being the next Wes, I'd just like to be able to blow over a few tunes at some point in my life

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I think this is very interesting and look forward to any responses. I have a student who, although a very good by-ear guitarist (he's 12), he seems to find it surprisingly difficult to recognise shapes of repetition for example, on music we are working on in a grade book. Admittedly, this is music notation and he is not at the level of reading it fluently, though the repeated forms are pretty clear to me, and others I have done this with. It's a grade level appropriate to his ability, though it seems it will be a long time before he is able to do anything other than play it by ear. But he's a good little player. So, I have decided to start him reading notation as a focus, so he can develop his sight/play relationship a bit more.

    Is Dyslexia a visual thing in that it is connected to drawing meaning from visual cues, like "is that word/series of letters/ musical shape meaningful? (or just a mass of undiscernable shapes)" or is the translation of those cues "what does that word/ musical thing mean?" (I know the word, but what is its meaning?) that is the problem? I certainly suffer from the latter, but I put that down to my mental deterioration through the aging process .

    The guitar is a great visual instrument. If you look at any simple chord shapes (M, m, dim), it is possible to see the encircling form of the scales that the chord is drawn from in each position. Easiest with major scales. That's the visual thing. Can you see the scale forms around chord shapes? It may be that you are not familiar enough with the chord shapes and scale shapes that share the same space, but it may be that you find it difficult to see those shapes? If it's seeing a chord come into view then having difficulty with the cognitive process of choosing and then seeing a scale that is at least appropriate that's a different problem to me, and might be just lack of internalising. Maybe your woodshedding, training methods have been inefficient?

    Anyway, I guess we all suffer from something similar and have found a variety of ways to get out of 'bandstand' as it seems to be called here, danger. For me, I play chord tones loud and long.

  4. #3

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    I don't have dyslexia. I'm also not a teacher. It sounds like you are a kinesthetic learner/player. That's totally fine. You can learn to play almost entirely by feel. I would start by learning some long phrases (maybe 2 bars ascending and 2 bars descending) that represent the sound of one chord (another aside, don't ?try to fit this into a CAGED shape, just pick the best fingering for the phrase). You drill and drill this phrase until you can easily play it with your eyes closed. Then, you "tie" this phrase to a chord shape. So, all you do is visualize the chord shape and "fire off" your lick starting and ending in different places each time. Then, you'll naturally start making enough variation to the lick that you'll be completely improvising. In short, you'll be visualizing a chord shape for reference, but not visualizing an entire scale. That's the thought I had when I read your post at least. Best of luck to you.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Gainly
    I think this is very interesting and look forward to any responses.......
    thanks for the response - I think i can identify with that student. Its probably what made me originally shy away from caged (or other) systems thinking id never get them internalised. I find reading music very difficult, and have avoided unless learning a head.

    in my case it is more a case of not recognising familiar patterns. Obviously this sounds like its going to be a hinderance at some stage learning any craft, but i do think i have an unusually vivid memory of sound (ear worms often keep me awake at night to the point of madness if i have been learning a tune) which suggests to me that we all have areas that are weaker / stronger than others.

    Can you see the scale forms around chord shapes? It may be that you are not familiar enough with the chord shapes and scale shapes that share the same space, but it may be that you find it difficult to see those shapes?

    This is where i struggle. Memorising Chord shapes arent too bad. I suspect thats easier to remember because you always see the chord in its entirety rather than 'filling in the blanks' like you would with a scale. - I think thats what im after, woodshedding methods to link the two rather then seeing them separately

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by corpse
    I don't have dyslexia. I'm also not a teacher. It sounds like you are a kinesthetic learner/player. That's totally fine. You can learn to play almost entirely by feel. I would start by learning some long phrases (maybe 2 bars ascending and 2 bars descending) that represent the sound of one chord (another aside, don't ?try to fit this into a CAGED shape, just pick the best fingering for the phrase). You drill and drill this phrase until you can easily play it with your eyes closed. Then, you "tie" this phrase to a chord shape. So, all you do is visualize the chord shape and "fire off" your lick starting and ending in different places each time. Then, you'll naturally start making enough variation to the lick that you'll be completely improvising. In short, you'll be visualizing a chord shape for reference, but not visualizing an entire scale. That's the thought I had when I read your post at least. Best of luck to you.
    interesting idea. I'll give it a shot. I imagine this could be quite tricky if changing keys a lot would it not?

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by basinstreet
    interesting idea. I'll give it a shot. I imagine this could be quite tricky if changing keys a lot would it not?
    What do you mean, because of the long phrases? You're taking small parts of the phrase, almost like a pool of notes, but more a like a pool of phrases. You could just play 2 beats if you want.

  8. #7

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    Have you tried playing off the melody, displacing notes, adding chromatic approaches, enclosures, etc...no theory or scales at all?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Have you tried playing off the melody, displacing notes, adding chromatic approaches, enclosures, etc...no theory or scales at all?
    yes thats kind of what ive been doing to get by to be honest. Its as i have tried to go to a more organised method that its highlighted im quite limited in some respects

    for example in blue bossa. I can play the head in Cminor (thinking about Eb maj) for the A section happily enough in multiple positions. But the change to C# major in the B section takes me a while to get my bearings

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by basinstreet
    Hello all

    Ive been playing about 15 years. I fell into the noodle camp and long story short - im now focusing on my time and focus. Through this I've improved a lot, however Ive realised that i'm pretty dreadful at shifting mentally as the chord changes, and terrible at visualising scales. I can play my way round the CAGED shape pretty well in all keys, but i've realised i tend to feel my way, and often starting from a note other than the root throws me right off.

    Im dyslexic. I found this out late in life and on my recent realisation Im convinced this makes it harder than it 'should' be. However Im sure there are many musicians that are too, and either dont know or dont care... Im guessing its not an area many people research because if you are good nobody asks questions


    does anyone with dyslexia also struggle here ? does anyone without it also just find it really hard? can anyone suggest ways to improve their ability to visualise? do any teachers have any students that they have noticed this in ?

    Im not worried about being the next Wes, I'd just like to be able to blow over a few tunes at some point in my life
    Hello! Well my sister and dad are both dyslexic. I probably am myself but undiagnosed (I have some classic symptoms such as right/left, transposition of digits, tendency to spell phonetically and so on.)

    so: the main takeaway is that it takes me flipping ages to learn anything. Repetition is very important.

    my main aim has been towards trying to make myself more flexible, which seems to work. But things take ages to go in.

    sometimes I’ll still do strange things like mess up arrangements I’ve played loads of times or start a tune in the wrong key despite having agreed it a moment ago.

    Corpse said you might be a Kinaesthetic learner. Leaning styles have been debunked, but I think there’s something to the K thing for dyslexics.

    anyway, if nothing else your post has reminded me that I know relatively little about dyslexia as an educator. I did attend a lecture where we were told - what is good practice for teaching dyslexics is good practice for teaching non dyslexics too, which I thought interesting .

  11. #10

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  12. #11

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    Dyslexia - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic

    That links to the Mayo Clinic's article on dyslexia.

    When carefully defined it relates rather narrowly to sound-symbol relationships.

    It does occur co-morbidly with other issues, for example, ADHD.

    I doubt that pure dyslexia impairs music reading ability. I know a very poor reader of words who is an absolute machine at reading music, including transposing concert charts to Eb or Bb instruments on the fly at full speed.

    I also doubt that it impairs the abiilty to learn patterns. People have different strengths and weaknesses, it doesn't mean they get a diagnostic label.

  13. #12

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    There were a l-o-t of blind guitar players. Presumably it's done by ear and feel.

    Of course, I don't think many of them were jazz players, which might be more difficult than say blues or other styles. There are quite a few blind piano players, though. Like Art Tatum.

    Of guitar players, Jose Feliciano could played pretty complicated stuff all over the neck. If he'd been solidly into jazz I think he could have done it.

    I'm not saying that dyslexia is the same as being blind, thank god, only that not having a good sense of visualisation is not necessarily the end of the world.

  14. #13

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    Hmm, that seems to associate music reading with increased pressure, when I was thinking of using it as a means of increasing confidence - rewarding on the fly and correcting things which can be repeated correctly - and developing systematic thinking.

    I'll have to see.

  15. #14

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    I would caution teachers of children who have been labeled as "dyslexic" to be very careful not to over-generalize.

    The core feature is difficulty with sound-symbol relationships, which impairs reading ability and not much else -- unless there's a comorbidity.
    In some cases, additional problems develop over time because trying to go to mainstream school with real dyslexia is probably unpleasant, to say the least.

    Even assuming the diagnosis of dyslexia is correct, you still don't know much about the individual's strengths and weaknesses.

    So, I think the aware music teacher might reasonably consult with the child's neuropsychologist -- assuming there is one (probably not) and that there has been a detailed assessment (also probably not). No, I don't have a solution to offer -- I'm just trying to describe the problem accurately.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Gainly

    I'll have to see.
    No pun intended, one assumes :-)

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Leaning styles have been debunked...
    If you meant "learning styles", I'd like more about what you mean.

  18. #17

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    I am both dyslexic and dyscalculiac which for me means having to teach myself methods other than traditional math to arrive at the information needed I have been a woodworker and luthier for all my adult life and learning to play guitar for the last twenty years in wood working I use a measuring tape to add subtract even seemingly simple problems some things do become rote after much repetition but not all. I do have very good visualization skills and learned the fret board well and construct chords using them but always counting on my fingers to find the fifth the seventh etc because they dont stay in my head but I do eventually learn to hear it

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    If you meant "learning styles", I'd like more about what you mean.
    theres no scientific evidence to support the learning styles theory. (VARK etc)

    https://www.psychologicalscience.org...i/PSPI_9_3.pdf

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    theres no scientific evidence to support the learning styles theory. (VARK etc)

    https://www.psychologicalscience.org...i/PSPI_9_3.pdf

    Respectfully, I disagree fairly strongly with this study, both from personal experience, education in education, as well as teaching countless students (we would see over a thousand a week in public school).

    Furthermore, there has been numerous studies showing positive results in real world testing, from 2018 but it’s just one of many.

    The effectiveness of multiple intelligences based teaching strategy in enhancing the multiple intelligences and science process skills of junior High School students | Winarti | Journal of Technology and Science Education





    A very interesting case of this was my wife and I taking the same class in college.

    She is a note taker, I am an auditory learner (learns best through listening). If you looked at the two of us in class, you would think she was the A student, and I wasn’t even paying attention.... but that’s how I learn. I just listen, and it sticks (I literally passed multiple college courses with no book, just go to class and listen to the lecture). We both did great in the class.


    Now, we also took a sign language class, but that one sucked for me. I was stuck in a situation where my main learning tool was useless. I got through it, but it was way more difficult than other things I studied because it was a class that specifically handicapped my learning preference.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagelove
    Respectfully, I disagree fairly strongly with this study, both from personal experience, education in education, as well as teaching countless students (we would see over a thousand a week in public school).

    Furthermore, there has been numerous studies showing positive results in real world testing, from 2018 but it’s just one of many.

    The effectiveness of multiple intelligences based teaching strategy in enhancing the multiple intelligences and science process skills of junior High School students | Winarti | Journal of Technology and Science Education





    A very interesting case of this was my wife and I taking the same class in college.

    She is a note taker, I am an auditory learner (learns best through listening). If you looked at the two of us in class, you would think she was the A student, and I wasn’t even paying attention.... but that’s how I learn. I just listen, and it sticks (I literally passed multiple college courses with no book, just go to class and listen to the lecture). We both did great in the class.


    Now, we also took a sign language class, but that one sucked for me. I was stuck in a situation where my main learning tool was useless. I got through it, but it was way more difficult than other things I studied because it was a class that specifically handicapped my learning preference.
    So what my tutor pointed out (I haven’t read the literature myself as I always found VARK a bit annoying so I’m just glad to have a reason to ignore it) is that people tend to self classify. You can disagree all you like but it doesn’t mean it has any more to do with real world brain science than Astrology.

    However - whether or not it can be a useful teaching tool is subjective (teaching is an art of course.) I find the left/right brain thing useful and that is outdated neuroscience. I’m also a typical Aries.

  22. #21
    Cool thanks for the replies everyone. I will read and digest properly.

    I was mostly interested in a discussion of peoples experiences with it / strategies they have come up with rather than looking for an excuse if it comes across that way...

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by corpse
    What do you mean, because of the long phrases? You're taking small parts of the phrase, almost like a pool of notes, but more a like a pool of phrases. You could just play 2 beats if you want.
    sorry I had misunderstood your post. makes more sense now

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Dyslexia - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic

    I doubt that pure dyslexia impairs music reading ability. I know a very poor reader of words who is an absolute machine at reading music, including transposing concert charts to Eb or Bb instruments on the fly at full speed.

    I also doubt that it impairs the abiilty to learn patterns. People have different strengths and weaknesses, it doesn't mean they get a diagnostic label.
    that student sounds interesting! transposing sort of melts my brain unless I am going by ears. I find it really hard to think ok so "its the 3rd of THIS key, which would be the Third in THAT key" every change.

    I thought it definitely effects recognition of patterns? I agree labelling everything doesn't really help anyone

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    So what my tutor pointed out (I haven’t read the literature myself as I always found VARK a bit annoying so I’m just glad to have a reason to ignore it) is that people tend to self classify. You can disagree all you like but it doesn’t mean it has any more to do with real world brain science than Astrology.

    However - whether or not it can be a useful teaching tool is subjective (teaching is an art of course.) I find the left/right brain thing useful and that is outdated neuroscience. I’m also a typical Aries.

    With all due respect to your tutor...






    From the institute for education

    “Perhaps what riles me most about the idea that multiple intelligences isn’t ‘’research-based’’ is that it implies research results must be limited to standardized tests and statistical analysis. In truth, multiple intelligences is the solidest research-based theory that education has ever had, if you count as research: neuroscience studies, anthropological findings, semiotic research (intelligences have different representational systems), animal studies, cognitive archeology (the presence of the eight intelligences are suggested in archeological digs), and abnormal and developmental psychology (highlighting the life trajectories of noted individuals as well as savants)”


    For instance,

    “More than 500 studies of brain function (largely fMRI experiments) were matched to the skills and abilities integral to each of the eight intelligences. Multiple studies of the core abilities for each intelligence were included to maximize reliability.
    To summarize, an initial review of more than 318 experiments found a pattern of neural activations well-aligned with the cognitive components for each intelligence [1]. This was followed by a study of 417 experiments examining specific skill units within each intelligence and their relationships to each other, the other intelligences, and general intelligence [9]. A third review of 420 reports found that there are observable and meaningful differences in the neural activation patterns among skill level ability groups in four levels of brain analysis: primary regions, subregions, particular structures, and multi-region activations [10]. A study of 48 resting-state experiments found seven to fifteen intrinsic, functionally connected neural networks that are closely associated with seven of the eight intelligences [11]. Lastly, the neural architectures cited for general intelligence were compared with a proposed new category of Cognitive Qualities

    Taken together, these investigations indicate that the multiple intelligences have clear, logical, and coherent neural patterns that are comparable to those identified with general intelligence. These data lend support to the proposition that each of the eight intelligences have unique neural architectures”



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC648071





  26. #25

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    Very interesting thread. I don't want to derail it but I wonder if anyone has experience teaching students with ADD. I have such a student right now - a good guy with some talent - but it is quite frustrating holding his attention for more than 20 seconds. Some days are better than others though. It must be a challenge going through life and learning like that.

    Thanks

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagelove
    With all due respect to your tutor...






    From the institute for education

    “Perhaps what riles me most about the idea that multiple intelligences isn’t ‘’research-based’’ is that it implies research results must be limited to standardized tests and statistical analysis. In truth, multiple intelligences is the solidest research-based theory that education has ever had, if you count as research: neuroscience studies, anthropological findings, semiotic research (intelligences have different representational systems), animal studies, cognitive archeology (the presence of the eight intelligences are suggested in archeological digs), and abnormal and developmental psychology (highlighting the life trajectories of noted individuals as well as savants)”


    For instance,

    “More than 500 studies of brain function (largely fMRI experiments) were matched to the skills and abilities integral to each of the eight intelligences. Multiple studies of the core abilities for each intelligence were included to maximize reliability.
    To summarize, an initial review of more than 318 experiments found a pattern of neural activations well-aligned with the cognitive components for each intelligence [1]. This was followed by a study of 417 experiments examining specific skill units within each intelligence and their relationships to each other, the other intelligences, and general intelligence [9]. A third review of 420 reports found that there are observable and meaningful differences in the neural activation patterns among skill level ability groups in four levels of brain analysis: primary regions, subregions, particular structures, and multi-region activations [10]. A study of 48 resting-state experiments found seven to fifteen intrinsic, functionally connected neural networks that are closely associated with seven of the eight intelligences [11]. Lastly, the neural architectures cited for general intelligence were compared with a proposed new category of Cognitive Qualities

    Taken together, these investigations indicate that the multiple intelligences have clear, logical, and coherent neural patterns that are comparable to those identified with general intelligence. These data lend support to the proposition that each of the eight intelligences have unique neural architectures”



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC648071




    you seem quite invested in the multiple intelligences model in the sense that you are keen to back it up scientifically. (TBH I probably won’t wade through that literature unless I’m required to write an essay on it.)

    As your IoE person says; does it really matter? I mean you might find it useful anyway. But you know, I am simultaneously capable of thinking something is scientifically hogwash - or at least not empirically verified - and also a useful tool for what we might call headology. It feels right, doesn’t it?

    I’m rather partial to a lot of that shit. I’m quite Alan Moore about it tbh. Archeological ancient beliefs are not valueless.

    OTOH we should choose the right time to be positivist about this stuff - we don’t base our astronomy on the teachings of Ptolemy any more.

    personally I never liked this idea for music so I’m glad to be able to dispense with it at least for now. Music is auditory at its basis. Avoiding this in favour of other approaches is going to lead to problems down the line. A student that doesn’t audiate is not going to be able to play music. They’d be like a painter with no visual imagination.

    While we all have to practice kinaesthetic things on the instrument, kinaesthetic memory is fragile, read/write while important for a functional professional can lead to overly notational or technical approaches and visual, while important for the guitar, has its own pitfalls.

    My job is not to give alternative sensory input but to help students become better auditory learners. I need a variety of strategies to help with that, true, but that’s the bottom line, that’s the most important thing about my job.

    there are other components to it as well, but that’s the main focus.
    Last edited by christianm77; 02-27-2020 at 02:59 PM.

  28. #27

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    teachers of students with dyslexia - visualising scales-phrenology-jpg

  29. #28

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    I dispute the diagram above. GAS needs to take up at least half of the diagram.

  30. #29

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    I have no difficulty believing that there are multiple aspects of intelligence.

    But, the link led to papers that weren't convincing. The one referring to hundreds of supportive studies cites references for those studies, but not one of them is a peer-reviewed journal article. That doesn't prove it's wrong, but when the author refers to a 35 year accumulation of information proving Gardner's theory, how about at least one peer reviewed article? I didn't spend a lot of time on it, so maybe I missed something. But, this stuff comes across as pet theory without scientific rigor, at least in the material I checked.

    The risk here is that a teacher will think s/he knows how a student learns best based on "learning styles" - but, in fact, misunderstand the student. For example, if you think dyslexia means that a student can't learn to read music and you then don't try to teach it ... well, that's just plain wrong. Dyslexia doesn't predict that.

    If a student has difficulty memorizing the geometric patterns of scales, that's a useful thing to know. There are other ways to learn that material. Don't diagnose. Don't put people into boxes. Just pay attention to the person in front of you and adapt. The theory, arguably, is as likely to mislead as to inform.

    People have patterns of strengths and weaknesses that are all over the map.

    For the teacher of the ADHD student: the treatment is, typically, medication. But, not everybody wants to take it and not all the time. There are good reasons for that. Many ADHD people can pay attention to things like video games, apparently because they're fast moving and engaging. That observation might inform an approach to a guitar lesson. Short, intense bursts, if it's possible to do that. Minimal lecture. Lots of hands on.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I have no difficulty believing that there are multiple aspects of intelligence.

    But, the link led to papers that weren't convincing. The one referring to hundreds of supportive studies cites references for those studies, but not one of them is a peer-reviewed journal article. That doesn't prove it's wrong, but when the author refers to a 35 year accumulation of information proving Gardner's theory, how about at least one peer reviewed article? I didn't spend a lot of time on it, so maybe I missed something. But, this stuff comes across as pet theory without scientific rigor, at least in the material I checked.

    The risk here is that a teacher will think s/he knows how a student learns best based on "learning styles" - but, in fact, misunderstand the student. For example, if you think dyslexia means that a student can't learn to read music and you then don't try to teach it ... well, that's just plain wrong. Dyslexia doesn't predict that.

    If a student has difficulty memorizing the geometric patterns of scales, that's a useful thing to know. There are other ways to learn that material. Don't diagnose. Don't put people into boxes. Just pay attention to the person in front of you and adapt. The theory, arguably, is as likely to mislead as to inform.

    People have patterns of strengths and weaknesses that are all over the map.

    For the teacher of the ADHD student: the treatment is, typically, medication. But, not everybody wants to take it and not all the time. There are good reasons for that. Many ADHD people can pay attention to things like video games, apparently because they're fast moving and engaging. That observation might inform an approach to a guitar lesson. Short, intense bursts, if it's possible to do that. Minimal lecture. Lots of hands on.


    I just posted above a study (one of many)

    THE EFFECTIVENESS OF MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCES BASED TEACHING STRATEGY IN ENHANCING THE MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCES AND SCIENCE PROCESS SKILLS OF JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS




    Better yet, consider why for almost 4 decades teachers have embraced the wisdom that can be found in this approach to education.





    Ps, there are misconceptions in your post specifically addressed by Gardner, such as “putting people in boxes”. He was entirely against that. His work was to empower the learner to understand how they learn best, not to have teachers label and dictate.

    fwiw, we studied his work (among others) in educational psychology classes. It’s not that I’m “passionate” about any one system of education, I just caution anyone in thinking its “debunked” because they’ve read so in a source or two.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I have no difficulty believing that there are multiple aspects of intelligence.

    But, the link led to papers that weren't convincing. The one referring to hundreds of supportive studies cites references for those studies, but not one of them is a peer-reviewed journal article. That doesn't prove it's wrong, but when the author refers to a 35 year accumulation of information proving Gardner's theory, how about at least one peer reviewed article? I didn't spend a lot of time on it, so maybe I missed something. But, this stuff comes across as pet theory without scientific rigor, at least in the material I checked.

    The risk here is that a teacher will think s/he knows how a student learns best based on "learning styles" - but, in fact, misunderstand the student. For example, if you think dyslexia means that a student can't learn to read music and you then don't try to teach it ... well, that's just plain wrong. Dyslexia doesn't predict that.

    If a student has difficulty memorizing the geometric patterns of scales, that's a useful thing to know. There are other ways to learn that material. Don't diagnose. Don't put people into boxes. Just pay attention to the person in front of you and adapt. The theory, arguably, is as likely to mislead as to inform.

    People have patterns of strengths and weaknesses that are all over the map.

    For the teacher of the ADHD student: the treatment is, typically, medication. But, not everybody wants to take it and not all the time. There are good reasons for that. Many ADHD people can pay attention to things like video games, apparently because they're fast moving and engaging. That observation might inform an approach to a guitar lesson. Short, intense bursts, if it's possible to do that. Minimal lecture. Lots of hands on.
    tbh it sounds like good practice for ADHD student is good general practice too

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    tbh it sounds like good practice for ADHD student is good general practice too
    Always a good idea to notice when the person you're talking to has left the room, mentally.