-
first off i like to say hi and how great this site is with a very short introduction about me so i won't annoy anyone.
im are of a blues rock player who basically flirted with fusion jazz in the past, I've been at guitar 30 plus years, but you all probably guessed what i know based on the music genre, i did study classical but forgot most of it, not embarrassed to say that after meeting Andy Summers and hearing the same during the late 1980s.
I used to sight read music but ruined it with tab stuff, i have the real pro app on my mac and ipad and fake and real books, yet even with this i stuck for some reason.
for example, i got the set list from a very good singer who asked me to play with her
Whisper not, by Benny Golson ANITA O'DAY
Close your eyes, Bernice Petkee STACEY KENT
A night in Tunisia, Dizzy Gillespie CHAKA KHAN
Doodling, Horace Silver DEE DEE BRIDGEWATER
Autumn leaves, Joseph Kosma DEE DEE BRIDGEWATER
Four, Mils Davis ANITA O'DAY
Corcovado, Antonio-Carlos Jobin SARAH VAUGHAN
It ain’t necessarily so, Goerge Gershwin - Aretha Franklyn JAMIE CULLUM
I got rythm, Goerge Gershwin
Cheek to cheek, Irvin Berlin JANE MONHEIT
Witchcraft, Cy Coleman
Caravan, Duke Ellington
Well you needn’t, Thelonious Monk
Yesterdays, Jerome Kern
One note samba, Antonio-Carlos Jobin STACEY KENT
Miss Celie’s blues, Quincy Jones
Dat dere, Bobby Timmons OSCAR BROWN
Tangerine, Victor Schertzingr
You don’t know what love is D, Raye-DePaul
I’ll wind, Harold Arlen LONETTE MAC KEE
the list above is are the songs, versions and her fav singers.
so i whipped out iReal Pro, downloaded all this material both to real pro as well as youtube videos of the original tracks and people performing them on youtube., im still lost.
i started with "whisper not", in iReal pro the chords are not at all identical to what i hear the app playing...very annoying...not sure what i am doing.
Then i tried learning the song from the original track on youtube and realized this was not in the same key...very frustrating,
is there a idiot proof jazz standard song book with the right chords according to the record, i tried fallowing chordify.com versions and those where also out of touch with reality lol
i got the melody down in my head and on guitar,, i can play the 7th chords but im baffled on how to pull off Whisper not and Close your eyes, im sued to tab books etc.
lease advise on a route here, very much appreciate it.
please advise
-
02-20-2020 07:18 PM
-
Can't you choose any key you want for the tunes in ireal pro? What's the problem? Are you saying you can't read chords on a lead sheet?
-
To change key just tap on the key signature next to the treble clef.
-
Yes, iRealPro lets you change the key to any other, at will. One thing to keep in mind is that the singer may have a preferred key, perhaps a mandatory key, so you need to learn the songs in any key, or at least get the singer's preferences. Other than that, I don't know of any shortcuts, I just have to practice a song. Once you have much more experience it gets easier, because you learn to recognize progressions, and can more easily hear where the changes go. But that takes a lot of listening and practice. Often you can drop some of the chord extensions and play simpler chords. The chords in iRealPro are not necessarily the correct or best chords, they're just what one player decided to use, based on his own ear and experience. They should get you close, but not necessarily exactly to the best choices. To back a singer in a duo is very demanding, much moreso than just banging out rhythm in a band, and very much moreso than playing blues and rock. Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more.
-
yeah deffo get the key , tempo
and style for each tune from the singer herself ...
plonk them into ireal and off you go
do ask advice on individual tunes if needed here ...
this forum is usually very helpful like that ....
-
So yeah, you need to figure out what key SHE'S going to sing in. Just because those are her favorite singers doesn't mean those will be in her "key."
Then you can use the Real Book or IReal to get you in the ballpark. In jazz, there's few times there's only one right way to do things...
By the way, if she doesn't know her keys, RUN FROM THIS GIG.
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
Originally Posted by corpse
-
Oh man, I can only imagine...
It's like the time I was told that I had to jam with this "really great drummer who can totally play jazz." Guy gets to my house and starts unloading multiple bass drums.
Seriously though, OP, do get as much info as you can...I'm not trying to say this as a slight to you, but more as a warning--generally, "really good jazz singers" don't hire guitar players for a duo gig who haven't played a standards gig before...so I just worry that she might not be as professional as she comes off (or as others have built her up to be)
Or I could be completely wrong...I've just...been burned before.
-
I've been working on playing jazz for a while and I would find that list daunting. Not particularly common tunes.
She's either awesome or clueless. She should be giving you charts if she's good.
I don't like to say working with singers sucks, but it sort of does. Usually just no idea of the basics of how music works.
"Let's just do elect to do the bridge really quickly and now we are 6 measures ahead. Weeee!"
-
Originally Posted by pingu
A lot of singers get the idea they are better than they are (well, most musicians, but singers are a little different) For instance, anyone can sing, but if they're slightly above average at young age they are told how beautiful their voice is, and then they have this god-given talent and never learn anything about music. Gigging isn't karaoke.
-
Your stated experience and present struggle describes a mismatch from what's needed for that set list...
You could rehearse with the singer to find out.
It's not clear (and strange no one has asked) if she has a band with which she wants you to play, or wants you to accompany her as a duo. A blues/rock guitarist getting stuck with music beyond 7th chords can't properly accompany a jazz singer as a duo. Chances are a little better if the singer has a band.
-
Originally Posted by pauln
for example i have Whisper Not on jazz-ballad swing at 100bpm, the chords i hear the piano playing are not at all the same as the guitar, i tried Guitar Trio instead of jazz ballad swing and the guitars i hear are not at all playing those chords im seen...its hard to learn a while new genre when you cant even hear the right chords or exact chords in the chord charts.
if you guys have iReal pro try it., compare it to the original track or a decent recording, on top of this iReal pro claims they can not allow lyrics because of copyrights...really? there i another program that is just a program which allows ne to import pdf and other format of music, no matter who wrote it.
-
Are you going to rehearse? How long do you have to prepare for this?
-
Well, the piano player in iReal pro sucks, I fired him a long time ago and just work with the bass player and drummer.
Kidding aside, don't try to learn the rhythm of the comping from iReal, it's god awful. But the chords you're hearing are right. iReal plays inversions, not just root position chords. It also defaults to "embellished" chords, which means it might thrown in some extensions where they are not specifically written. That's kinda what jazz playing is...so if you're looking for a set "part" to play, you're not going to find it.
It'd be helpful if we knew a little more about what your skill set is now. Do you know your drop 2 and 3 voicings and inversions for maj7, m7, 7, m7b5 and some altered dominant chords?
-
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
My advice is to carefully consider whether you can make this gig successful.
To be honest, and maybe a little too blunt, I'd bet against it.
This doesn't strike me as an easy gig. You'll be playing unfamiliar tunes, and the singer is going to be singing along with the recording in her head, not what you're looking at. Or maybe not what you remember from the recording.
So, if you can play along, capably, with all those recordings, you'd be fine. But, with this singer, if anything goes wrong, like she forgets where she is in the arrangement, how are you going to recover?
Also, that's a lot of material to memorize. Most people would make their own charts if they were forced to play this sort of a gig. And, if errors creep in, it's a potential trainwreck. I think you'd have to transcribe all the changes from all her recordings. Otherwise, if you play the usual changes (and IRealPro has them, no problem there) but if you play IRealPro's version, you take a risk of throwing the singer off when she doesn't hear what she's expecting.
Whole thing sounds like trouble.
-
Originally Posted by corpse
im confident that i love jazz fusion guitar, come on, John Scolfield? Mike Stern?, Frank Gambali, Joe Pass, Martino etc, i love these players, i think im ready to invest 10 hours a day including buy a a nice 335., i wish i did this when i was younger because the way i think now as a producer and rock guitarists is probably mediocre to a jazz musician,
example:, if there is a piece music that never had a guitar part or the parts are very complex for me to play, like a set of difficult chords, a transition or adding music to a accapela i would slow the track down and record myself playing to it,
But i had no luck with Whisper not etc, i found a few videos on youtube now after 2 weeks...do you guys have recordings of guitars played to the originals vinals versions of these tracks?
-
Originally Posted by Gavriel
I'm still confused... if she offed to drive you to rehearsal, that sounds like a band rather than a duo, which she could have done at your place. Is this thing a band or a duo? Not clear if you declined rehearsal because of a legit conflict or just put it off. What do you mean you didn't play your guitar for three days?
-
Do you know how to play the standard jazz guitar chord shapes, and the typical comping rhythms used? Do you realise that a jazz lead sheet or chord chart is just a skeleton, the player is expected to use their stylistic knowledge to flesh it out and sound right?
If not, I think you are in over your head, frankly. People spend years learning how to do this stuff properly.
-
This is the chart for Whisper Not in iReal pro, these chord changes look and sound perfectly ok to me. I know how to play all these chords with suitable jazz voicings on the guitar. If you don’t already know how to do this, I think you will struggle.
-
Originally Posted by Tone Deaf Tony
Having backed female singers, I would only add that you have to keep aware of their position on stage if they like to move around - if you are behind them and they wear high heels, watch out for your toes and cords!
-
By the way I listened to Anita O’Day’s version on YouTube, she is doing it in F minor so the chart for that would be as below. But do you even know what key your singer wants to do it in? Could be anything, singers will choose a key that suits their vocal range.
-
Hello, to answer the curious about this singer, its a band and she wants to meet together with or with out the band to start working and we cant do this in my place because of my kids are off from school.
She gave me charts, they look identical to iReal or Fakebook charts, but we are talking about learning versions from a record sung by someone she likes,
the first chart
second in another key
the 3rd looks like a print out from ireal pro, its identical.
What i think would speed up my situation is if i had guitar versions with exact chord charts for example the version of "whisper not" with Anita O'Day ,
so far the closest i found is this video , i played classical in the past so i picked up some allot from the video already, i can play this version along with the Anita O'Day recording but wish there where exact chord charts because i have to write them out myself, im surprised they are not ut there for this version but i understand that the jazz genre thrives from inversions.
i hope this gives you guys an idea of how mediocre i am with learning songs , its like learning a Beatles tune from a record or tabs.
so with all that said i tried setting up iREAL to sound as close as possible to the recorded versions of the songs the singer will be performing, the closest i got to "whisper not" with Anita O'Day was by using the "Jazz-Medium Swing" feel, i add a screenshot showing the other options.,as for understanding the drop chords, inversions and the great info on this site i need to invest more hours everyday and i will as i go,
i also use several other OS X and ios apps that are sort of like the guitar grimoire, the apps help me get a birds eye view of the guitar neck, everything you can think of from scales, modes, chords arps etc etc the solution in the long run is hard work and i know it.
i hope this post gives you guys a better idea of what's going on, it is trouble or a challenge which is how i see it, i think this will push me to play jazz like always wanted and enjoy what i can learn from this site and more.
P.S. the chordify version starts with Gm7 not Fm7
Whisper Not-Anita O'Day Chords - ChordifyLast edited by Gavriel; 02-21-2020 at 07:54 PM.
-
Originally Posted by grahambop
RIP Nick Gravenites
Yesterday, 05:48 PM in The Players