The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    MIT Press Journals

    Sorry don't have more... I was looking for examples, they are pretty generic, but work.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    As Alan Moore would remind us, Science is the child of Magic
    Love his BS. Art is the science of manipulating... and to get there... Shamanism, (not to be confused with Scamism), is the path towards interaction and enlightenment.

  4. #28

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    Apparently the HBO series of Watchmen is really good

  5. #29

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    Identify the Tonal Centre? Too general, too simplistic...

    Play a specific corresponding pitch collection for each chord? (cst etc) - too complicated!

    Break down Tonal centres to divide into Tonic related chords as opposed to Dominant (or alt dom) chords? Yup, works for me!

  6. #30

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    I prefer the three act structure

    setup
    rising tension
    resolution

    but more resonant than numbers or trad theory terms? Also helps you tell a story....

    An obvious example is the chord sequence that we all know and love, the ii v I, but that’s just one of a load of progressions that do basically the same thing.

    (In general the reason one would favour a ii v I over, say, a ii biiio7 iii is down to the melody and bassline of a song, as well as your personal taste, which is one reason why learning tunes is important, but when it comes to solos you can invent a new melody, and of course reharmonise the existing tune.

    This is part of the reason why I think (within one key) of subdominant (one place)/tonic (another place), because the dominant is the conflict that gets you from one to the other. It is not of its self stable.

    of course that ending up place might itself be a tension place - so the narrative becomes episodic, such as the B section of a Rhythm tune.

    too much status quo (tonic) and we end up with the equivalent of episodic tv eg in a turnaround which can be comforting, but larger narrative arcs and structures can be made by keeping away from that particular resolution.

    and is with any fleshed our narrative this structure occurs on different levels within music.
    Last edited by christianm77; 02-10-2020 at 06:04 AM.

  7. #31

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    When I studied thorough-bass on lute (kind of similar comping thing - only from baroque) I asked a friend of mine who was very much experienced to make different contextual excersises for me... like those that I did in jazz for some guys -- I like doing that stuff... not just pattern, or theoretic idea application...
    but something more specific - like something that provokes you to move into some particular direction in realization...
    and also not just standard turnarounds but things more individual - more complex...

    I had to play from figuered bass line (a bit like playing from pure chord sybols) and there were different stipulation - sometimes very free - sometimes very strict... but at the beginning I struggled a lot becasue I did not have much experience and often I could not read the chord quickly.. could not figure out what the figuers mean on the spot.. and because of that I tried to interprete bass notes and figuers as chords... like ok 'this is triad' and 'this is bass moving to 7th inversion and here diminished going to modulate and so and so on... ''
    Of course I tried to connect it in classical rules and all that... but still I tried to think in chords...

    And suddenly I realized that it is not the right way... I have had enough background in music in general - I could hear chords and harmony and form well...

    What I had to do actually - and what I did - was to think of just a melody agains the bass... yes I still knew what was going on harmonically ... but now I was released becasue everything was balanced between two main poles - bass as a fundumental and melody as modt individual ecpression...

    Sorry for this log intro.. in jazz with its realtively free vice-leading it is even easier to do than in classical... (if you play melody with conviction you can through in almost any interval or chord that you hear fits and it will work)

    So my idea - it s great to hear fundumental form first of all --- not turnarousnds but the form of the songs in overall sense - what it ALL goes and how..

    then it is nice to be able to hear typical turnarounds - but ii-v-i per se or triton sub is not harmonic analyzis... analysis is when you catch something meaningful not just technical.... meaningful is there only in realtion to form and all the aspects: melody harmony rythm...

    My One And Only Love ... it has very simple beginning like I - vi - ii (or IV) - V... very basic.. thousands of song used it... but lets check houw the melody goes over it...
    This ascending pentatonic line sounds actually like a pick that normally would have been before the 1st bar and reached the top note on the 1st beat of the 1st chord... but here it is shifted and melody comes to the top only at the IV chord...

    THis is what's important for analysis - how we hear relations between different levels - different techniques: typical progession, pentatonic, ascending line, meter and harmonic rythm... all that works together...


    There are other tunes then that use similar approach... but in their own way like Polka Dots and Moonbeams and so on...

    My humble idea: study patterns of course, study harmony - nu remember this is only techniques... analysing is about music.
    Last edited by Jonah; 02-11-2020 at 02:45 AM.

  8. #32

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    As someone asked earlier, what is the point of analysis? Define what you expect analysis to accomplish for you first and then people will have more targeted answers.

    If one is trying to figure out how to solo over the changes, then I suggest just playing the chords: chord tones or CST if one is really determined. Later one can add fancier stuff: subs, blues, more scales, various Greek numbers followed by tonic, triads, ad nauseam. As always, scales and devices are not music in themselves. They are good finger and ear training. Good music tells a story and the story telling is an art not easily accessed through analysis and theory.

    If one is after something else, then again define what analysis is expected to provide.

  9. #33

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    Well, the OP said:

    I am looking for suggestions about key things to look for when analysing chord progressions which will give me greatest insight into what is going on harmonically and hopefully improve my playing over changes.
    I think that's fair enough. If a progression is unfamiliar or looks tricky then it's a very good idea to analyse it to some extent, it'll obviously clarify what can be played in improvisation.

    I'd say only highly experienced players can launch into a tune they don't know cold. Any kind of technical task requiring skill needs to be reconnoitred properly before one begins. It's just common sense, really.

  10. #34

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    I had a guitar teacher say, "think simple, play fancy". So when analyzing try to get down to the vanilla changes.

  11. #35

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    If you can imagine a good sounding line over the changes and play it instantly, you don't need analysis. That said, even players who can do that might be able to use analytical ideas to find new sounds.

    But, us mere mortals often can't do it that way. So, the analysis helps keep you on the right track in terms of getting particular sounds (and avoiding clams).

    Suppose, for example, if the chords are Gm7 C7 Fmaj7 and you want to get a tritone sub sound on the C7. It may help you to know that the notes of Gb7 will get you there (emphasizes #11 and b9). You might also benefit from knowing that the notes of Dbm will work to get a slightly different sound (that's b9 3 and b13 from the point of view of C7). You might benefit from knowing that the notes of Dbmelminor (Calt) will get you even further (altered 5ths and 9ths). Or, you might just say "F tonal center" and play notes from the Fmajor scale. Just to name a few commonly used ideas.

    Those are all examples of theoretically based ideas which lead to particular sounds. But, to return to the first point -- if you can imagine a good line and play it, you don't have to know any theory -- and there are great players who do it that way.

  12. #36

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    Try analyzing some tunes in reverse. I.e., start with the last chord and work backwards to understand how the preceding chords took you there.

    Once you understand it in terms of chord names, look deeper in to voices. First the melody and bass voices, then the inner voices—but again working backwards from where you want them to resolve.

  13. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    MIT Press Journals

    Sorry don't have more... I was looking for examples, they are pretty generic, but work.
    This is great thanks a lot!

  14. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Identify the Tonal Centre? Too general, too simplistic...

    Play a specific corresponding pitch collection for each chord? (cst etc) - too complicated!

    Break down Tonal centres to divide into Tonic related chords as opposed to Dominant (or alt dom) chords? Yup, works for me!
    I think you end up doing this anyway as you can hear the pull of the dominant related chords and respond accordingly but good to have in the back on ones mind!

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I had a guitar teacher say, "think simple, play fancy". So when analyzing try to get down to the vanilla changes.
    right, I’m stealing that

  16. #40

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    If they're too vanilla it could be very misleading. But 'think simple, play fancy' is clever enough.