The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    As sad as this sounds, you are likely to not keep and play that first “jazz” guitar.

    So yes choose resale value, or for even a more cost-effective choice - just play what you have now and next February you can buy what really sings to you. Then you have saved the modest cost of buying now and wanting something else in a year.

    You know yourself. If you will end up with the $5999 (more or less) guitar in the end, then wait and do just that. The gradual climb thorough a bunch of lower cost guitars is arguably a waste.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    The Eastman T49D/V looks like a copy of the Gibson ES-175 and has a Minimum Advertised Price of $1512. You can probably get it for 15% or more lower, if you have good negotiating skills. Much respect for the Eastman range of guitars. I will try to find one used. $1512 is quite a lot of dosh at this stage. But hey, I have seen beginners, hedge fund types, start off with a $25 000 James Olson SJ, Michael Greenfield or Kim Walker to play cowboy chords, so what do I know? Rich people are different; they have more money.

    You know yourself best. Are you the type to jump on the carousel of buying and selling, in search of the next guitar? Or are you a "forever guitar" man, keeping what you buy for a good long time while working on your chops?

    Of the 3 you mention, the Eastman T49D/V is the one that I think you will keep the longest. It is essentially a Gibson ES-175 and most fellows start out with a Gibson ES-175-style and just keep playing the heck out of it.

    I do recommend that you check out one of the Ibanez jazz boxes, the $700 Artcore AKJV95 or the Artcore $400 AF75. The D'Angelico EXL-1 for $749 isn't going to be much better than the Ibanez, it has a cheap floating pickup and these things have a reputation for sounding bright and harsh. I have an Ibanez AF105NT from 2010 and it plays very well. The AKJV95 has better pickups, maple, and better dressed frets than the AF75.

    My own recommendation is to buy the Ibanez Artcore AKJV95, and forget about guitars for a while and just work on playing jazz. You can get it for at least 15% off the MAP seen on most merchants' websites. Try negotiating. But forget Sweetwater; they will lay the guilt trip on you and call you up at the most inopportune time such as when you are schtupping your Significant Other, just to ask you how you are and if you would like to buy a pack of strings...

    If you buy new, you stand to lose at least 50% when you sell on so think about it carefully. Buying used has its own pitfalls if you do not know how to spot trouble in used guitars. So, save yourself some headaches, buy a new Ibanez, take it to a good tech-not likely to be found at Guitar Center- get it checked out and set up. And avoid this forum for a good long while...like for the next 5 years or more.

    Good luck. It can be fun.

    By the way, why can't anybody give straight answers anymore?

  4. #53

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    For under $450 there are 3 Ibanez AF85 (used, out of production) to choose from on reverb.com right now. For the money it is a very nice guitar. I haven’t seen a D’Angelico in a few years...partly because the ones I played made me ignore them from that point on. You could spend more and get less than those AF85s.


    First Jazz Guitar-ibanez-af85-jpg

  5. #54

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    I repeat the same advice I usually give. Among the less expensive guitars there is HUGE variability even within makes and models. One Ibanez, Eastman, Epiphone, etc., is not going to be just like the next one that rolled off the assembly line. They aint cars. You can't just research a model online and go buy it off the lot.

    Try a bunch of guitars. Blindfolded, preferably. Buy the one that speaks to you.

  6. #55

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    I went last night to my local shop and decided on a D'Angelico EXL-1, It felt great and traded in one of my lower end taylor guitars for it. I think this will do what i need while i learn more about jazz. It felt great,but i will give it a few weeks and take it to a luthier for a full setup to my taste. Thanks again steve
    Attached Images Attached Images First Jazz Guitar-ba3ad24f-7761-438e-9af2-ae54df09349c-jpg 

  7. #56

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    I had been there about 5 or 6 times before this initial post trying a few Hollowbody guitars out, the ones I mentioned above were my favorites but really couldn’t decide. My friend and I went last night and after sitting and playing passing the ones I mentioned around a few times I decided. I also decided i didnt need a bigsby tremolo(d,angelico ex-175 had)and the Eastman had a vintage look and the neck was a little more chunky for my liking. So that got me to the d,angelico Exl-1 which I felt Ive liked overall, so i tried several exl-1s and picked the one that felt right. Thanks again for the advise

  8. #57

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    i haven't played an Eastman at all, but are the necks actually chunky?
    this is a plus for me, and i really wonder if i should be playing one of them myself

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzguy97
    I had been there about 5 or 6 times before this initial post trying a few Hollowbody guitars out, the ones I mentioned above were my favorites but really couldn’t decide. My friend and I went last night and after sitting and playing passing the ones I mentioned around a few times I decided. I also decided i didnt need a bigsby tremolo(d,angelico ex-175 had)and the Eastman had a vintage look and the neck was a little more chunky for my liking. So that got me to the d,angelico Exl-1 which I felt Ive liked overall, so i tried several exl-1s and picked the one that felt right. Thanks again for the advise
    Excellent , looks the part too

    you're totally right about the setup too
    get the strings on there that you like
    (TI jazz swing flats are expensive but lovely and last for ages)

    Have fun !

  10. #59

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    I'm assuming you're not brand new at playing guitar. If so, I'd suggest finding something that isn't radically different than what you're used to. Of these two, the Eastman has a wider nut and deeper body. For a first hollowbody, you might find the D'Angelico more comfortable. I wouldn't go real heavy with the strings either if you're used to light gauge strings.

    I also wouldn't buy a first jazz guitar blindly. If you don't have access to try either of these guitars, go check out what's available to check out. Pick the one that speaks to you. That's a safer bet.

    Playing jazz is hard. Don't get a guitar that's a chore to play. Make it easier on yourself. If you keep at it, there will certainly be a second jazz guitar in your life. Make that the deeper, wider, heavily set-up one. You'll be better able to manage it.

  11. #60

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    Wow! Nice choice. It is a looker, and hopefully sounds even lovelier!

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
    As sad as this sounds, you are likely to not keep and play that first “jazz” guitar.

    So yes choose resale value, or for even a more cost-effective choice - just play what you have now and next February you can buy what really sings to you. Then you have saved the modest cost of buying now and wanting something else in a year.

    You know yourself. If you will end up with the $5999 (more or less) guitar in the end, then wait and do just that. The gradual climb thorough a bunch of lower cost guitars is arguably a waste.
    I started to study Jazz Guitar in 1997. I had previously only played acoustic since 1964.

    I purchased a Korean made Epiphone Sheraton.
    Still have it. Still play it. Still love it.

    My most expensive guitar is a used Heritage H575 Custom that I paid $1900 for. I believe that it is possible to acquire a very nice instrument from manufacturers such as Peerless, Ibanez, Eastman et. al. for well under $2K. This opinion is exemplified by my Peerless Monarch 16 and Ibanez AF125. I believe that you can acquire a nice guitar for around $1000-1500, invest $500 in upgrades and end up with a good playing, good sounding instrument for under $2K.

  13. #62

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    That's a great choice !!!! Congrats and happy NGD

    I'll bet it sounds great through your Marshall too.
    I know most people think of Marshall for distortion, but I think they do a really nice clean jazz tone as well.

    What kind of strings are on your new guitar? You may want to try some flat wounds for a traditional jazz set up.

  14. #63

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    Hi!

    I am acoustic fingerstyle player and I am thrilled about buying my first archtop and dive into jazz. I was thinking of pulling a trigger to a Martin Taylor Virtuoso and a a used Roland JC-40 based on the following consideration:

    1. I wish to have a neck as close as possible to my acoustic Martin. Especially, I need 1 3/4 at nut or wider.
    2. I plan to play with my fingers so I need good string spacing and a "sort of" fingerstyle instrument,.
    3. I am thinking of playing mostly amplified, so I was gravitating around a laminated instrument.
    4. I have chosen Roland JC-40 as it looks a best-bang-for-the-bucks kind of amp, based on a quick Google search, and was thinking of buying a used ones as "they are all the same".

    Could you please correct my thinking and/or give me advice? I am not sure I am making the right choices. I tried a few archtops at my Guitar Center but was disappointed with their nut width (and I never tried a MT virtuoso). I could also increase budget up to $4k if necessary.

    Cheers!

    Ll.

  15. #64

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    Maybe not as good as the Martin Taylor, but Eastman and The Loar make archtops with 1-3/4" nuts. The JC's are proven amps for jazz. Probably a good choice, but if weight is an issue, people really like Henriksen's, Polytones, etc.

  16. #65

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    Hi - welcome to the Forum!

    There are many "what guitar should I buy?" posts here, so I'd definitely recommend reading some for other ideas.

    A $4K budget is excellent, and gives you many, many options! That being said, for a "first archtop" -- and knowing nothing else about you, your playing, your skill level on guitar, etc. etc. -- I'd recommend maybe spending a quarter of that, and then saving the rest until you figure out more about jazz, what you like, and so on. If you are only looking at GC, of course, your choices are quite limited! We also don't know where you live, which also matters (in terms of what you can demo, what your budget gets you, etc) ... A used Peerless or Eastman could be great, or find a Warmoth tele with a 1 3/4" fretboard, too! [I'm a "JC-hater," from personal experience, but we can talk amps later!]

    Many online/Reverb dealers have "3-day return" policies, which could be safe if you would like to play the guitar first. A lot of people say, "You have to play 20 guitars to find one you like!" but often that's not realistic.

    I posted a "public service announcement" on this earlier, but if you wanted to go for it, you can't beat this CB Hill guitar (from California)!

    Happy hunting, and let us know what you decide!

    Marc

  17. #66

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    I guess I owe you telling you something about myself then

    I have been playing guitar kind of all my life but always as a hobbyist. Recently, I have been playing fingerstyle acoustic arrangements of jazz standards, where I comp with thumb and play melodies with i-m-r. I can do that fine, but would love to dig into improvisation better and get an electric jazz sound. I understand what a II-V-I is, and I can play it with various substitutions. I can single line on it with various scales, although nothing fancy.

    I play the guitar with bare fingers and I hold it in a sort of classical position. For my first jazztop, I plan to use a strap. My most important thing is "feel": I do not wish to change my posture, and would like to get a good tone out of my archtop in a similar way I do with my acoustic.

    I live in Boston, MA.

    Ll.

  18. #67

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    Eastman El Rey 4 and a Roland Cube 60. Less than half your budget and it'll get you started in figuring out the new world. It's likely you will not keep the first guitar and amp you buy, so used is the most sensible choice in my opinion.


    First Jazz Guitar-eastman-el-rey-4-jpg

  19. #68

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    Just curious ... why can't you play jazz on the guitar you already have? If you're looking for classic jazz tone, you aren't going to get it (well, not easily) playing fingerstyle. What would be the advantage of playing an archtop?

    BTW, some great jazz has been played on round hole acoustic guitars. Along with every other type of guitar.

  20. #69

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    I do play jazz on the one I have, but wants to start gigging out so am going for an amplified instrument. I can purchase an electrified acoustic of course, but to add variety would prefer an archtop.

  21. #70

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    Another thought... like you, I recently became interested in electric instruments. In my case, at age 60 following a 45 year devotion to the acoustic guitar. I also play with my fingers and have conservatory training in classical technique. It was nails on nylon and Alaska Piks on steel strings. My destination Martin, after owning many acoustic guitars, was a 24.9" scale 000 size guitar with a Modified V neck, 1.75" nut and 2 5/16" saddle spacing. Red spruce over mahogany. Most important, the sound of the guitar compels me to play it. Perfection, in my view.

    I've been learning about the electric world for about 2 years now and a number of guitars have passed through my hands. In the process I have relearned a lesson: it's the sound of a guitar that inspires me to practice and to play.

    So my advice, again I guess, is to jump in... based on specs, sure... and begin to learn what you like. Unlike the acoustic world where the player owns the tone, much of what makes up the tone in this new world is engineered into pickups, amps, speakers and other things that influence the signal chain. And depending on how you twist the dials and how you set the string in motion, you may find the that you pull the most inspiring tone from an unexpected guitar / amp combination.

  22. #71

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    Off the top of my head:

    Jazz players with terrific tone:

    Lorne Lofsky, Stratocaster and other solid bodies. Not a household name, but guitarists know who he is. Great player.

    Ted Greene, Telecaster. Tone like a chorus of angels.

    Jack Wilkins, Comins GCS-1, the last several times I saw him perform. He was Tony Bennett's guitarist, among a long career of other credits.

    Mike Stern, toured with Miles Davis, playing a Telecaster.

    Chico Pinheiro tours with a Benedetto full body archtop, but I saw him on one tour playing a Frameworks body-less nylon guitar and sounding amazing.

    I hardly need to list the great tones obtained by some of the archtop masters. The quintessential jazz guitar tone IMO is Wes. L-5. I also love Kenny Burrell's tone (various Gibson and D'Angelico (original) archtops. Chico Pinheiro gets a very distinctive sound from that Benedetto and always sounds great.

    The point is that great jazz tones can be obtained from a very wide range of guitars. To me, there's no such thing as a "Jazz box" if that means that other types of guitars aren't appropriate for jazz.

  23. #72

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    Here you can hear two full body archtops and two semis.

    Jack is playing the Comins GCS-1. Can't see the amp, but when I was there he played that guitar through a Compact 60 iirc.

    Vic is playing a similar looking guitar. I think it's a semi. When I was there he played through a Fuchs amp and a box which may have been an Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master.

    Mark W. is playing a full body guitar. Looks like a D'Angelico reissue. I don't recall what guitar he used when I was there. I recall that he had a wireless setup.

    I don't recognize what Ron is playing and he wasn't there the nights that I went.

    Again, the point is that great jazz can be played on different gear.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 01-20-2020 at 05:19 AM.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Again, the point is that great jazz can be played on different gear.
    Fun video, thanks!

    This is also an interesting example of how amp settings/volume/etc can make such a difference: I could barely hear Ron at all (yet from further across the room, Vic was heard fine)!

    Great playing by all!

  25. #74

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    Man, that is a tough question. An acoustic arch top with a floating pickup is much different than an electric arch top with a top mounted pickup which isn’t too far away from just playing on a solid body electric such as a Tele. I have all of those types of guitars. The acoustic arch top, in my case a Campellone 18” Special, Really nails that old archtop tone, but I don’t really care for it through the floating pickup. When I play it acoustically I use 80/20 Bronze strings which do not pick up so well on a magnetic pickup, but when using nickel strings it doesn’t sound quite the same. So when playing through a pickup I tend to use my 60's ES175 or my Eastman AR371 (which does have a 1 3/4 nut width). These respond better to using an amp as they are designed as electric guitars, but still will get howling feedback in certain situations. This is where the solid body electrics come into play for me and really it is the player who makes the tone of the instrument and not the other way around so a Tele or Les Paul or PRS or Ibanez or you name it can work to play amplified music of any style. I understand your desire for the 1 3/4 nut width as I prefer it as well, but my guitars range from 1 5/8 to 2” nut width and after a few moments I adjust my technique to accommodate as the difference is really quite minimal for instance the 3/8” difference between my 1 5/8 and 2” nut width divided by 6 strings is .0625” at the nut and the way most guitars are set up at the bridge the difference is even smaller for your picking hand. So get out there and play all of the guitars that you can and find one that speaks to you within your budget and within the limits of how you want to project your visual image (a Flying V may be the most comfy guitar, but how does that affect your overall image) and buy that guitar. There is no best guitar, but there are certainly guitars that work for each of us.

  26. #75

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    SFAIK, Eastman is the only company that standardizes on a 1 3/4" nuts, so if that is the an absolute requirement, that's where the most options lie. The Godin 5th Ave series has 1.72" (43.688mm) nuts, which is just shy of that. FWIW, when I plug that number into a cell in excel and format it as 16th's, it rounds to 1 12/16, so you can call it 1 3/4, I guess (and 2+2=5 for certain values of 2 ...). If that works for you, there are a bunch of different models. I play the most basic one (5th Ave Kingpin, no cutaway, single P90 pickup). They make a bunch of others, all based on the same basic body and neck (with or without cutaways, varying degrees of fanciness, different pickups). The body is a hair under 16" at the lower bout, a bit slimmer than, say, a 175, so it's very comfortable, and probably closer to the feel of a classical than a bigger archtop. Fingerboard radius is also flatter (16", as opposed to most other archtops, which are 12"). Godins are also relatively cheap, which makes experimentation a little easier.

    But I would caution against drawing a hard line at a particular nut width, because this is a somewhat deceptive number. It's telling you how wide the neck is at the nut, but that's really it. If you are looking to maximize string spacing and to have have a fretboard that's closer to classical sized, nut width is not telling you string spacing. It's also not telling you neck taper, string spacing at the bridge, and how much real estate is actually on the fingerboard net binding, fret shape, and the "rolling" of the the fingerboard edges. You really have to try stuff to get a sense of what's what.

    As far as amps go, Roland JC anything is not to my taste. I find them overly bright, and have never been able to dial in a tone I like with one (and I've played through a lot of them). There are so many smaller, louder and better amps these days, I'd recommend almost anything else, including amps in the Cube series.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 01-21-2020 at 02:43 PM.