The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26
    Haven't really progressed much in the last month. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I've regressed. It's the memory thing - I just keep forgetting what I've learned. Really not sure what to do about this, to make stuff stick. I'm guessing it's an age thing, but it's still frustrating. Elsewhere, what I have been doing is listening to a lot, and (so far) transcribing a little Louis Armstrong. I figure if I start off at the beginning things might fall into place at some point. I must confess it's no chore to listen to the Hot Fives and Sevens, it's wonderful stuff.

    So far as a video is concerned, here's the latest lock-down piece. Again, not really improvised.


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27
    Earlier in this thread I posted about the unfortunate incident with the gypsy jazz guitar. The good news is that after a long delay caused by lock-down I now have it back and all fixed. Now I can get back on track...


  4. #28
    And following on from the previous post, here's the fixed guitar in action. I was reasonably pleased with my two solos here - although both are composed rather than improvised. That is to say, they were improvised, but very slowly. Both are still very much "plug and play" solos, using lines and arpeggios and ideas from various sources. My rhythm guitar playing is totally non-gypsy jazz so far as chord shapes are concerned. I'm using three finger voicings taken from Randy Vincent's Introduction to Jazz and Charlton Johnson's Swing and Big Band Guitar book. But I love these voicings and they fit well with the other rhythm guitar, and anyway, I'm too old to worry that the gypsy jazz police might come knocking (and if they do come, they'll be knocking about my right hand rather than my chord shape choices, anyway).


  5. #29
    No new video - although we have done a version of Swing 42 which came out very nice. But nothing of note in it to warrant uploading it. I think what these lock-down videos have taught me is that I'm no improviser. More and more, as I read about improvisation and what goes on in the brain when people improvise, I realise I don't have this mysterious ability to simply turn off the conscious brain and let the unconscious take over. I'm still way too focussed on what chord is coming up, what can I play over this chord, how can I connect it to the next one, etc etc. And of course, that simply doesn't work on a conscious level at tempo.

    But in a way that realisation is great and has freed me to concentrate on rhythm guitar - which I'm increasingly enjoying - and on composing my improvisations, and - here's the key thing - not feeling guilty about it!

    The other thing that's happened, almost naturally, is that I've found myself listening to older and older styles of jazz. Maybe the inability to improvise has led me back to a time where playing around the melody was the done thing, and maybe, just maybe, I might be able to do this on the fly. We shall see.

    That's it for now!

  6. #30
    Variations on the melody is certainly a valid approach to improvisation advocated by many, many great players. Lee Konitz has a 10-step process for this, which you can find for free via the google machine.
    Re turning off the conscious brain and letting the unconscious take over: I cannot even imagine doing this. Between listening to the other players and trying to comp in an effective way and trying to construct a non-rambling solo, I'm working my brain all the time.
    I'm not a pro and I play with people at many different skill levels and I can spot the amateurs who try to play by intuition. They often play noodling solos, get lost in the form or turned around on the beat. Then, when I try to signal the return to the head/outro, they invariably have their eyes closed in deep effort or if it's not their turn to solo they're looking off in the distance with no clue where we are in the song. Often think a shock collar would be helpful at that point, rather than furiously tapping the top of my skull.
    If anything I am more "in the moment" when playing jazz than I am during most of my day (don't tell my boss.) Of course, with songs I know really well the roadmap is familiar and the process is easier. But then the challenge is to find more interesting routes to the same destination(s) and that requires focus and conscious effort on my part.
    Keep at it. It's not a simple endeavor. Like professional sports, it only seems easy because the pros are just so good at it.

  7. #31

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    Suggestion. Invest time listening to some of your favorite artists. IF you want to discover ways out of simply playing arpeggios. Listen, listen, and then listen some more. It’s a suggestion.

  8. #32

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    I think listening to recordings is the best way to learn. At least that's how I do it. I listen to music as much as I possibly can, and even if I'm not actively listening I think I still absorb things. I can't imagine trying to learn to play and improvise without having listened extensively to the type of music I want to play. That's probably why I couldn't begin to play rock - I've never listened to much of it.

  9. #33
    I listen a lot, apologies if I've given the impression otherwise. The last six months I've been spending most of my listening time with early jazz - Django (and a few other gypsy jazzers) and Louis mostly. Although Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Kenny Davern have all been on the iPad and in the car a lot too. As has Tony Bennett, Chris Flory, Lester Young and also Kay Starr! Rarely listen to anything other than jazz these days. I do a bit of transcribing, too - but tend to forget all the lead lines I learn. I think early on in this thread I remarked on my poor memory for such things. This year I've learned and forgotten so much. Partly because of this lack of ability to remember single note lines, and partly because I've really been enjoying it is why I'm focussing more and more on rhythm guitar. Also been working hard on my reading.

  10. #34
    This thread really was just a note-book to myself, and it's been interesting to reread it.

    Anyway, it's been a while, but the direction I mentioned in the last few posts is certainly where I've gone - playing melodies and not (really) worrying about improvisation per se, and lots of rhythm guitar.

    The melodies are fun, even things as simple as When The Saints or Battle Hymn of the Republic. I often imagine I'm doing a gig and I get called to play a solo and I have 12 or 16 bars and that's it, and I play the melody, maybe with a few little twists and turns. I've decided that there's nothing wrong with that, and in fact the general public at all the gigs I've ever done (admittedly, non-jazz gigs) would be as happy with such as a solo as they would be with an impressive flight of fancy. In fact, playing the melody when I haven't been able to think of anything else has always gone down surprisingly well.

    And from that starting point, I'm finding that my solos are getting a tiny bit more improvised - i.e. properly improvised, not figured out in advance, even if it's only a bar or two when I deviate from the melody.

    At any rate, it's a start. Or rather, another new start.

    And it'll do me for a little while whilst I stick to these simple old songs.

    Derek

  11. #35
    Been a bit of a turnaround this week, in a good way. Been thinking about this improvising malarky and what I'm doing wrong, and I've concluded a few things:

    1) I have too big a fear of playing a bad solo, wrong notes, poor time, etc
    2) I'm comparing myself with folks here, who are really good at this stuff, and folks on record who are really good at this stuff
    3) I'm trying to run before I can stand up

    As a result, I think I've ended up composing solos rather than improvising. Playing safe, essentially, and in the process learning nothing.

    So this week, I've taken a whole new approach, and it's been great fun, and actually I've come up with a few solos I've been really pleased with.

    This is the new plan:

    1) Learn songs - melody and chords.

    And here, I'm being easy on myself - no clever reharmonisation, only one key, no chord melody, just simple vanilla melody and chords.

    2) Playing the melody with a few rhythmic and melodic variations, and - where there's a gap, and if I can put in a lick or an arpeggio then I do. If I can't, no worries.

    3) I must not "compose" - but play on the fly.

    4) No-one but me needs hear any of this.

    And it's actually working. I'm having fun with no pressure, the melodies as written are nice, and as I play them over and over so I get a little more comfortable "improvising". Already finding a few sequences where I can reuse/quote other melodies.

    I think if I do this for enough tunes and for enough years, it might- just might - click. And, if not, well those melodies and chords are great fun to play anyway.

    Derek

  12. #36
    It's been almost a year since I've posted in this thread. I still read the wider posts and make a comment occasionally, but mostly I've been trying to figure this jazz playing out. Still working through Randy Vincent's book - I've done the first chapter about half a dozen times but it's still not sticking. Examples are what I need. So I've been learning tunes - simple stuff, Blue Moon, Summertime, All of Me, Honeysuckle Rose, and playing four to the bar Freddie Green type stuff. It's increasingly looking like that will be my place in this world, and if so, I won't mind too much. Last night I tried playing some lead along to Honeysuckle Rose... nope. Nothing. Nada. As soon as the melody finished and it was time to solo there was literally nothing in the brain box. I've transcribed a fair few solos in this last year - Louis Armstrong, Evan Christopher, Kenny Burrell, Charlie Christian, but the moment it's time for me to play... total blank.

    I am enjoying the songs and the rhythm, though, and will keep pressing on with my futile attempts to understand the improvising side of things.

    Derek

  13. #37

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    Here is what I tell myself.

    "Just hit the 9th or the 3rd and go from there. You don't have to improvise a masterpiece and at this point in your studies you shouldn't expect to."

    I went through an autumn leaves backing track last night and did pretty okay. I just kind of played around in G major going from chord to chord hitting M7, 6 and 9 chord tones. I clearly remember trying this a year ago and being overwhelmed trying to outline each chord as they fly by so this time I was just like, I can play G major and it'll be fine. I could say I changed to Em at times, but that's the same key as G major.

    Anyway, to get to the point, I thought of this thread while I was doing it and wondered how you were doing.

  14. #38
    Hi Allan

    Thanks for the response.

    I just feel like there's something obvious I'm missing, not a secret. I understand the need for the years of hard work, but there's something I'm clearly missing. I might have another go tomorrow but slow the tempo down so I have time to think about what chord I'm on, what options I have, maybe try a few more interesting rhythms in my lines, trying and find the notes that lead nicely from one chord to the next... all that sort of thing. I suspect the tempo will have to be very slow for my brain to process that all in time to play something.

    I was looking at a Honeysuckle Rose etude and I noticed that many of the lines were not chord or arpeggio based (at least, not related to the chord being played at that moment), but instead seemed to be simply passing notes, or lines leading to the next chord. It sounded good. I tried it. My version sounded out of tune and wrong. Heh. Maybe if I played with more meaning I might get away with wrong notes :-)

    Then I was looking at a Charlie Christian chorus from the same song and I notice that (according to the transcriber) Charlie is just playing over 4 bars of the same chord, rather than the repeating ii-Vs that I've learned...Maybe that's the secret? simplify it all before making it more complex again.

    Anyway, it's a fun journey, if very frustrating.

    Regards
    Derek

  15. #39

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    As soon as the melody finished and it was time to solo there was literally nothing in the brain box.
    was there...my collection of PDF transcriptions....still collecting them and my trusty AirPage turner and foot pedal...quite content...sight reading rather than redundant exercises..

  16. #40
    Following yesterdays feelings of hopelessness I gave myself a talking to and spent an hour just jamming over a very slow version of Honeysuckle Rose chords. Started to follow the chords in a fashion, all though there are plenty of moments where you can almost see my brain working. Anyway, this is where I'm at. Pretty much just playing the triads. Comments and advice always welcome.


  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger
    Following yesterdays feelings of hopelessness I gave myself a talking to and spent an hour just jamming over a very slow version of Honeysuckle Rose chords. Started to follow the chords in a fashion, all though there are plenty of moments where you can almost see my brain working. Anyway, this is where I'm at. Pretty much just playing the triads. Comments and advice always welcome.

    It’s difficult to “perform” at home. However, listening to yourself on a recording is a great thing to do because you’re able to accurately gauge where you are in the process.

    I think you’re doing fine. Play nice short phrases, whatever they may be, and don’t be afraid to “play” the spaces in-between. Before you know it, you’ve played a 32-bar chorus. I suggest practicing NOT starting phrases on beat one. It will make your phrases sound less “boxy” and more fluid.

    Work on remembering the thing that you just played, while “playing” the silence, and do something to develop that idea in the next phrase. That could be repeating the rhythm, expanding or contracting the rhythm, repeating the idea and adding a “tail” to it (either before or after the idea). Then experiment with playing contrasting phrases; high/low, rhythmically syncopated and dense/half and whole notes, loud/soft. You can make a lot of great music even with a limited amount of pitch information.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #42

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    I thought the solo was very nice.

  19. #43

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    Hey digger or Derek...

    Nice thread, just read through. Yea, somewhat very common approach and results. Not bad at all, your sounding good, and seems like some improvement. But for the amount of time, I don't know.

    So You made some comments on one of the earlier posts about... trying to do too much too early. Well that sounds right. Can you improvise on one chord well, I mean can you play in a jazz style on a simple one chord vamp.

    If you can't... how would you expect to play well on a lot of chords within the form of a tune and be able to interact with other musicians while playing.

    You must somewhat really know what you need to do to improve your playing... it's not that tricky, or magic etc...

    I probable should add... by playing well I mean whatever level of playing you wanted to achieve from your practice.

    I apologize if my comments offend, I'm out of line or seem mean spirited... they're not meant to be.
    Reg

  20. #44
    Hi Reg

    Thanks for the comment - you certainly don't come across as mean spirited. Your advice is welcome and gratefully received.

    I actually did some analysis earlier this year on my lack of ability to "sound jazz" and why this might be. I may be guilty of over-thinking (when I could spend the time practicing) but I wrote an entire essay to myself on the subject and in-doing some I came to some interesting conclusions, some of it was about my lack of true active listening. I mean I listen a lot to jazz, pretty much to the exclusion of everything else. But how does it compare to the amount of listening I did to, say, Jimi Hendrix when I was fifteen and had nothing else to worry about other than playing the guitar? I still think the sheer volume of input in those formative years outweighs the input these days.

    But you're 100% right, given the time I've spent trying to do this my progress isn't that great.

    I will also spend some time on just a single chord and see what that reveals... I suspect I already know the answer!

    Thanks again,
    Derek

  21. #45
    Following on from Reg's comment I thought I'd dive in and share my playing, in it's current state, over a single chord vamp. I'm not sure what to make of this - no doubt lots of room for more rhythmic variation, and more syncopation, and more jazzy lines. Hopefully these things will come in time and especially if I listen better and do a lot more transcribing.



    Regards
    Derek

  22. #46

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    I thought that was nice too. Sorry I can't offer a wall of advice like Reg, even if I did you probably shouldn't take advice from me.

  23. #47

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    Yea... nice digger. you almost seem free. LOL.

    So now get organized. There are typical melodic licks, ideas that have standard developmental processes.

    examples
    Take any lick constructed with a chord tone or an extensions as the Tonal target of the Lick, with a rhythmic pattern that can repeat or have the allusion of repeat.

    Now create a pattern... play the lick in bar one... then play the same lick but transposed up a 3rd for the 2nd bar.

    Now you've created a melodic idea and developed that single lick into a two bar phrase which has melodic. rhythmic and harmonic organization that can be developed even more. It's not rocket science etc... that single melodic idea can become a complete solo...

    You hinted at adding Blue note influence,,, another approach that you can use with organization to expand that lick.

    Anyway... you probable get where I'm going.

    I have pages of chord tone(s) and extension(s) with standard mechanical usage and possible developments. I'm pretty simple... I like my approaches to have a relationship with Form. And generally always try and have a shape in mind and try to stay true to it.

    I usually teach this approach starting with single chords... all of them. staring with Maj. Then start working on Chord Patterns, two chords, then 3,4 etc.. It's easy to always easy to find a tune to relate to.

  24. #48
    It's been an age since I've posted here, but I'm still here, still reading the discussions and feeling very inadequate as so much of it goes over my head. But still playing and still trying to move forward.

    Just before Christmas the chap who I did the lock-down gypsy jazz videos with suggested that maybe we should resurrect the project, but as a live thing rather than a video thing, which of course sounded both great and terrifying at the same time. I mean, playing live - improvising live - would mean I'd actually need to know stuff...

    So naturally I agreed. Luckily I had a couple of months in which to try and figure out a way through some tunes.

    Memory still remains an issue so I adopted an approach that I'd heard Gonzalo Bergara suggest - just learn one major, one minor, and one dominant lick. Better to know just three things really well, and use them a lot, rather than have loads of licks and lines that you use infrequently. Just using three licks meant that when a tune hit, say, a minor chord there was very little thinking to do - just play the lick in the relevant position. No more brain delay.

    And it actually worked. As I was (at this stage) only playing at home to myself, it didn't matter that the solos were very repetitive. I was getting through them, and following the changes. I also thought back to all the hundreds of rock'n'roll gigs I'd done and how, if I'm truthful, I've got away with just a handful of Chuck Berry licks. For years, I've just cut those licks up, doubled them up, played half of one and half of another, started in the middle of a line, left a few gaps, messed with space and timing - but they were all still the same few licks. Why couldn't the same thing work for gypsy jazz?

    I learned a half dozen tunes, and also discovered that for some of these tunes I already had a few other licks that I could drop in (thanks to all the years of attempting to play this style). But I've deliberately avoided composing any solos, even if they are all based on similarly raw material.

    Over the weeks I slowly added some more (but not too many more) licks and then a couple of ii-V-is. Only this week I've added a minor ii-V-i lick. But with all these licks I do tend to play them a little different here and there. I'm happy enough to come in late, drop in a triplet, change the ending, add some ornamentation, leave some gaps. Nevertheless, as far as I'm concerned (memory-wise, at least) they're the same lick. I'm also more than happy to play the melody, and just fool with that a little. In actual fact, I often think that audiences, especially non-musicians, enjoy solos when those solos heavily reference the melody, so that takes care of one chorus...

    Anyway, all of this led to several really good jam sessions with the other guitar player and a couple of open-mics where we played three and then four tunes, and lo and behold I was actually improvising this stuff live, in front of people, and the comments have been really encouraging. And I'm am really enjoying the process.

    I think the key has been to reduce the learning/memorisation to a minimum. It's also helped that most of the other musical projects I've been involved with are very quiet, if not finished, so I've been able to really focus on this.

    Lots more going on, but this was most definitely a major "tiny step".

  25. #49

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    Improvisation is little more than playing something you've already practiced at home. The greats like Parker and Miles Davis, well, they practiced a LOT.

  26. #50
    In a very infrequent update to my "journey" thread, all of what I wrote in my last post above remains true - I still keep an eye on this forum, but my skills and knowledge are so far behind you guys that I tend to comment very rarely, and instead just soak it all up. I'm still applying the Gonzalo "one lick" thing mentioned above, although I've progressed to several licks for each chord type and a few ii-V lines now. And I'm applying the Louis Armstrong idea of "...the first chorus I play the melody. The second chorus I play the melody around the melody. And the third chorus I routines.." Except I only play two choruses so I never get to the routine-ing bit :-). I can't really say, therefore, that I'm improvising, more like plug and play and twisting the melody a bit. But it's progress - tiny steps.

    And then this weekend I actually played a jazz gig. Never ever thought I'd say that. Although, "gig" might be a bit disingenuous. But it was an hour and a half performance in a record store in town. Just two of us on acoustics playing the old 20s and 30s swing and some Django stuff. Didn't go too badly at all for someone whose tiny steps have only taken him from the front door and about half way to the gate. Luckily my duo partner is an old hand at this stuff, but I think I carried my share of the playing okay.

    So... still taking those tiny steps.

    Derek