The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    So, yesterday I restrung my guitar. I had D'addario Chromes 12s on, and wanted something a little bit thicker, so I went with the Thomastik Benson 14s, because the TI Jazz Swing 13s are overall less thick than the Chromes 12.

    The GB114s are beautiful strings, but sadly I broke the low E string. I will give TI the benefit of doubt, and assume I did something wrong. In the meantime I put back on the low E string of the Chromes set and ordered a new GB114 set, but obviously I am a bit sad because they are very expensive.

    How can I avoid this happening again?

    The main problem I think, is that these strings are designed for archtop guitars, with a tailpiece and some string lenght behind the bridge, so are they simply too long for my Telecaster?
    There is no way I can put that much string on my tuning pegs so I can leave the blue silk wrapped part on the strings.

    Is there any way to safely install them without the silk wrap?


    Best regards,
    F

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  3. #2

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    If this has never happened before, maybe it was just a defective string or maybe you accidentally tuned the string too high.

    I'm not sure how the type of guitar you were re-stringing could be the cause of the string breaking.

  4. #3
    because apparently they are designed so that the silk wrapped part goes on the tuner, but the string is simply too long for that on my guitar, it's not possible to fit that many windings on a tuning peg.
    the overall string lengh on an archtop from tailpiece to tuning pegs is much longer than on a telecaster from bridge to tuners (also, mine is only 24.75" scale, not regular fender 25.5" scale)

  5. #4

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    i had locking tuners on a hofner
    president once ...

    it broke 3x low TI flat E strings in a row
    all same place at the tuner !

    i believe these strings don’t apreciate
    being ‘pinched’ by a locking mechanism

    got rid of those tuners PDQ !

    got some waverley style open
    tuners and all good

  6. #5

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    I have lockers and non-lockers. I have never had a problem. I usually go about a tuner post spacing past the post that I am tuning for. There is enough silk left on all of the strings that have silk on my non-lockers. I cut it off on the lockers, but still do about one wrap. That allows me to loosen the strings and remove a pick guard and the like if I need to work on something underneath. Guitars that have TIs: Tele, Strat, Jazzmaster, Gibson ES390, Guild A150. Some are 25.5" scale lengths, some are 24.75".

  7. #6
    the tele has regular gotoh tuners, neither slot nor locking, just a hole.

    the thing is, with the low e string, after i strung it through the body of the tele and put it through the tuning peg hole, and pulled it all the way through, the silk was out by a ridiculous distance, i didn't measure, or take a photo, but it was like 15 cm or more. no way this length of string is going to fit on a tuning peg, thus making it impossible to have the silk wrap in the tuning peg.

    i know they are designed to have the silk part in the hole of the tuning peg but the string lenght between the ball end and the silk wrap just seems to be too long for that on a tele

  8. #7

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    The only string I’ve ever broken during installation was TI. It happened when I decided the string wasn’t wrapping around the tuner head properly, so I repositioned and retightened. It’s something I’ve occasional done with other brands, but the TI string snapped at the bend. I wonder if TI’s core may be a bit brittler than other strings, but I don’t blame the string as I mishandled it.

  9. #8

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    I would check if the nut is filed correctly for the new thicker strings

  10. #9
    it is

  11. #10

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    I've broken treble E strings, but never, in more than 50 years, a low E. The tension just isn't high enough to come close to breaking one, unless it's seriously defective.

  12. #11

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    Well, where did the string break?

  13. #12
    it broke at the sharp bend coming out of the tuning peg. this is of course, because i did NOT put the silk part in there.
    if i would have pulled the string this far back, there would be too much string left to wind on the tuner.
    i ordered a new set of strings, and i will take a photo of how much too long the e string is.

  14. #13

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    After running the string through the Tele body, over the bridge saddle, through the nut, and through the tuning peg hole, pull the string gently grasping it with your left hand from the string end that is already through the tuning hole. While holding that tight, confirm that the ball end is seated fulling into the retaining ring on the back of the body and that the string is going over the correct bridge saddle, and that the string is in the correct nut slot (this is to confirm the correct path, thus correct length).

    While continuing to hold the string with a gentle pull with the left hand, take your right hand and pinch the string with your fingers in front of the bridge and while continuing to pinch the string firmly, run your fingers up the full length of the string to the nut. Repeat this only going from bridge to nut a couple of times. This is to relieve rotation around the string's longitudinal axis (*twist) before tuning up to pitch.

    Now additionally grasp and hold firm the string with your right hand beyond where you are holding the string with your left hand (so you may re-position your left hand). Re-position and grasp the string with your left hand fingers immediately behind the tuning post.

    Now, continuing to hold the string gently tight with the left hand fingers behind the tuning peg, measure by eye how much string length you are going to use to wrap this peg. The distance spanned by two tuning pegs is just less than two inches and is about right.

    Re-check proper string path (seated ball end, bridge saddle, nut slot), and then while continuing to hold the string tight without slack with the left hand fingers behind the peg, and keeping the wrap length you just estimated in mind, slide your fingers away from the peg toward the string end so that you are now holding it at the estimated wrap length from the peg (about two inches between fingers and peg). Keep holding the string and now move your left hand back to immediately behind the tuning peg (the string will so slack over the finger board with the additional two inches of length, but you are now holding the string where it needs to be when you begin turning the peg in order to make the length correct for winding the right amount of wraps on the peg).

    Re-think, re-check, then turn the peg and tighten up the string to about half way to tuning pitch, cut off the excess string length, then proceed as you usually do to tighten up the string.

    *twist
    Since attack is the part of a note's envelop profile in which the excursions peak, the note's attack is likely the place where you will most easily notice any twisting artifacts in the tone. A string has a degree of freedom (rotation round its longitudinal axis) that is usually "unused", but a twisted string will allow variation of that twist as part of its energy balance mechanics by exchanging between excursion tension and rotation tension, this "modulation" happening at the audio frequencies of the notes being played. Actual resulting effect on tone may range from "OK" to a little "off" to horrible from discernible non-harmonic overtones (especially electric guitars).

  15. #14
    Thank you for your thorough explanation
    This is however exactly as I am doing it already.

    I don't think I managed to make myself understood, based on the answers I am getting. I'm sorry, English is not my mother tongue.


    I will try to explain once more:

    The Thomastik strings have a ball end, followed by the actual flatwound string, and a silk wrap on the other end.
    If you bend the flatwound part too much, or cut it, it might unwind and break.
    Now the sharpest bend on a string is after the last wrap around the tuner, going into the hole of the tuning peg, right? This bend is quite sharp, a little more than 90 degrees.
    Now it appears to me that flatwound strings don't really like this bend, and the thicker the string, the less they can withstand to be bent sharply, hence Thomastik put the silk end on the strings, because this part can withstand being bent a lot more.
    So by design, with these strings, if not all the wraps on the tuner, then at least the last wrap and the part going into the hole should be the silk part, NOT the flatwound part, am I right?

    However, if I use the method you describe, and take distance between two tuners for the first wrap, the silk part is still far far away from the tuner, I am way into the flatwound part then, and the risk of the string breaking on the bend going into the tuner hole seems to be quite high (at least that's what happened to me first time I used these strings)
    But if I pull it back enough so that I have the silk part inside the hole, I am left with a lot of string length
    between the bridge and the tuner. Too much to fit on the peg actually.

    I am looking for some kind of work-around for this.

    Anyways, the new strings should arrive tomorrow by mail, I will take a photo, maybe that will clear things up.

  16. #15

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    I would chalk it off to a one-off defect. I have found that there are lots of one-offs with guitars. (Like when I hit the right note with the right timing.)

    I have a 24.75" scale length Epiphone with the standard nonlocking stamped Kluson knock offs. No silk left on the wraps at the peg heads. No safety slot and hole on top. Strung conventionally with 2-3 full wraps on the low E. No issues. TI Jazz 12s.

  17. #16

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    you didnt have the problem with the crome 12, But with the TB 14 it broke, other than being a defetive string it sounds like the material in the TB is more brittel. you could try to heat that area of the string to make it more flexable when puting on.

  18. #17

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    Not to diss you JaxJaxon and it may be just me, but you shouldn't have to (not even sure that it is a good idea) to heat guitar strings to use them.

  19. #18

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    you ever play in the hot sun or in a snow field

  20. #19

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    Not usually, but my point is heating a string in a specific spot seems like a recipe for disaster. The OP should by all means do it if they feel comfortable doing it.

  21. #20

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    I've never had the opportunity to try TIs, so I'm just spitballin' here, but this may or may not help. From the description, it seems to me that the un-silked wrap is separating at the tuner peg, allowing the sharp edge of the peghole to cut the thin inner core (I would also check that peghole for a burr). Perhaps treating the un-silked portion of the length in question with some liquid Superglue (very carefully) would give the vulnerable section enough stability to be tuned to pitch (this would, of course, have to be done before threading through and away from your guitar). A little dab'll do ya, as they say. Something to think about. Good luck!

  22. #21

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    [QUOTE=citizenk74;927594] it seems to me that the un-silked wrap is separating at the tuner peg, allowing the sharp edge of the peghole to cut the thin inner core (I would also check that peghole for a burr). try using a round file or a sand paper too bevel the hole of the tuner so you have less string Break angle. Or even a string tree to make the angle less sharp. but that will be hard to do being its on the low E

  23. #22

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    Here's that TI GB 114 string properly installed on that scale length. Hope this helps!

    How not to break another low E-string while restringing (TI GB114)-img_5681-jpgHow not to break another low E-string while restringing (TI GB114)-img_5675-jpgHow not to break another low E-string while restringing (TI GB114)-img_5677-jpg

  24. #23
    Hello Geechnyc,
    thanks for the pictures. It sure looks on the 2nd picture like it's going to break any minute
    But if this has worked for you, I'm hopeful too. How long have you been using this set of strings?

  25. #24

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    You're welcome. Those strings have been on a little under one month with one gig and corresponding practice time. For comparison with regard to string condition at the post, here is a similar image of a Thomastik JS 113 (a 53 vs. the 55 of the GB 114) on a different but same-scaled instrument that has been on about 8 months with some five gigs and corresponding practice time. I mention the latter information to indicate that the string is being regularly tuned and played.

    How not to break another low E-string while restringing (TI GB114)-img_5685-jpg

  26. #25

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    The last strings are the most sensitive ones, i would suggest you to get them fixed by a professional or if you wish to do it yourself, you better refer YouTube, sc-downloader or any other guide.
    Last edited by jackwatson; 02-21-2019 at 02:49 AM.