The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Am struggling to break through the ii v i barrier, play through the change, a 3 or four bar phrase.

    Can any one point me to, refer their favourite simple and super cool ii v i line so I can drill it, play with it etc

    Thanks in anticipation.

    Cheers

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I find these lessons helpful.
    II V I Jazz Guitar Licks

  4. #3

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    Thanks moreover appreciate you taking the time. Lessons don’t work for me.

    Am after some cool funky lines. Stand alone 3 or 4 bar lick like in a blues. Lines of masters. maybe by Louis Armstrong, Grant Green, Peter Bernstein, Scofield Lee Morgan, whoever but simple to play.




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  5. #4

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    Like Grant Green and miles intro lick to Tune Up


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  6. #5

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    Something like this perhaps.
    Jazz Guitar Lines Of The Greats: Amazon.co.uk: Jamey Aebersold: Books

    The same guy did a video about the book.

  7. #6

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    There’s also that monster Coltrane 2-5 patterns thing:

    http://valdez.dumarsengraving.com/PD...nePatterns.pdf

  8. #7

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    One thing about those Trane patterns is that for guitar, you don’t need to practise them in all 12 keys like the sax players do, at least not in my opinion. A couple of keys might be enough if they are on different string sets, given how easy it is to transpose up and down on the guitar.

    As these patterns are moving in fifths, you might get away with just doing the first two in each set, for example.

  9. #8

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    Well I don't really play II V I's, because three chords is way too much work unless I'm being paid really well. Which in jazz is almost never the case.

    So, in a (short, or two bar) II V I play

    II --> (I)
    or
    V --> (I)

    Any subs scales etc you want to use are A-OK

    No one is interested in the I chord. Everyone knows what a major or minor sounds like, so give them one note, 3rds and 5ths are always good, but maybe a 2, 6 or 7 when you are feeling more confident.

    Not all lines are actually this way, but don't fret the exceptions, and you'll hopefully find this approach declutters your thinking and playing. I daresay for long II V's it's not such a pain in the bum.

  10. #9

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    In terms of actual vocab, get them the way I did, off a bloke in the pub with no questions asked.*

    *that means steal them. And having stolen them, vary them.

    But I'm not going to give them to your for free. That's why theft is necessary.

  11. #10

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    Also, I think the triad/tension note thing is cool, obviously Jordan would hate me for putting it this way out of a melodic context, but

    Dm11 G13b9 Cmaj7

    Play

    C E Em

    And with added tension note

    C/4 E/b9 Em/4

    Lastly, anything that's a chord can also be a line. Play the notes in the chord shapes.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    In terms of actual vocab, get them the way I did, off a bloke in the pub with no questions asked.*

    *that means steal them. And having stolen them, vary them.

    But I'm not going to give them to your for free. That's why theft is necessary.
    I nicked all mine off of old dead geezers so they wouldn’t notice.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    One thing about those Trane patterns is that for guitar, you don’t need to practise them in all 12 keys like the sax players do, at least not in my opinion.
    I think you're right.
    It's important to be able to play in all 12 keys but this doesn't mean you have to play every single thing in all 12 keys to know it.

    Carol Kaye has a small booklet (pamphlet, really) called "Pro's Jazz Phrases" and she goes over the lines in only four keys: C, F, G, and Eb. If you can play something in those four keys, other keys won't prove a problem. (The only exception would be lines incorporating open strings.)

  14. #13

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    I have been getting my pet lines from Jazz instructional books.

    GGG, you might have to up your game a little and find the lines yourself, and then transcribe them yourself. What is inspirational for one person might not be very good to another. You might find it to be very rewarding and motivating.

    You have come so far on your journey and made such great, great progress. You might be better off taking this endeavor into your own hands, instead of relying solely on recommendations from others.

    And I would not limit my source material - some of these books have collections of very nice lines already tabbed and annotated for you, with the chords right there. And you can hear them with the accompanying CDs or mp3s. I am bobbing my head right now to a Greg Fishman minor line that is forever burned into my memory and fingers.
    Last edited by AlsoRan; 09-12-2018 at 11:33 AM.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    off a bloke in the pub with no questions asked..
    also a good way to make money

  16. #15

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    Been lurking at the back hawking my tabz

  17. #16

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    This is definitely my favorite.

    Easiest cool ii v i lines-untitled-jpg

  18. #17

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    Hip

  19. #18

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    I knew you'd like it


  20. #19

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    I thought it was going to be all around the mulberry bush haha

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    One thing about those Trane patterns is that for guitar, you don’t need to practise them in all 12 keys like the sax players do, at least not in my opinion. A couple of keys might be enough if they are on different string sets, given how easy it is to transpose up and down on the guitar.

    As these patterns are moving in fifths, you might get away with just doing the first two in each set, for example.
    It's more important to play patterns (not necessarily the Trane ones) in every possible guitar positions .. CAGED or 3NPS whatever, so you get a much better mastering of the fretboard.

    Also playing a pattern in all keys, whether it is along the cycle of 4th (first step) or along the 12 keys in random order (next training step) is very useful to train 1) your muscle memory 2) your brain to find notes on the fretboard (at least the starting one of a pattern)... Put another way, a lot of repeat during a couple of weeks is the best learning practice.

  22. #21

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    By the way, Bert Ligon must be mentionned here. One of his books is an in depth discussion of ii V I , but it's also very helpful to practice connecting all sorts of chord change as discussed at the end of the book.

    Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony by Bert Ligon

  23. #22

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    Since you like the Grant Green and Miles intro for Tune Up why not go to Youtube. Put the playback setting at half speed, if you can't pick the licks up at full speed, and try to copy the licks for yourself. You'll learn much.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    This is definitely my favorite.

    Easiest cool ii v i lines-untitled-jpg
    Are you going to do a video on that, like playing slow with explanation?

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhch
    It's more important to play patterns (not necessarily the Trane ones) in every possible guitar positions .. CAGED or 3NPS whatever, so you get a much better mastering of the fretboard.

    Also playing a pattern in all keys, whether it is along the cycle of 4th (first step) or along the 12 keys in random order (next training step) is very useful to train 1) your muscle memory 2) your brain to find notes on the fretboard (at least the starting one of a pattern)... Put another way, a lot of repeat during a couple of weeks is the best learning practice.
    Well I find I don’t need to practise lines in all keys because once they are assimilated I can usually play them correctly in any key anyway. As long as I’ve covered the differences across string sets etc. But maybe that’s just me, I seem to be able to play a lot of stuff by ear like that.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Well I find I don’t need to practise lines in all keys because once they are assimilated I can usually play them correctly in any key anyway. As long as I’ve covered the differences across string sets etc. But maybe that’s just me, I seem to be able to play a lot of stuff by ear like that.

    This kind of extensive all positions all keys practice is really for beginners or early intermediate so they can master the fretboard. This seems to be the case of the OP and myy reply wasn't meant for your own practice, given your level.