Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Posts 51 to 66 of 66
  1. #51

    User Info Menu

    By the way, wizard = brilliant, jape = joke, prank. So a wizard jape is a brilliant prank. He wasn't being entirely serious, of course :-)

    (It's early 19-something Brit upper-class speak. Or it might be Harry Potter, borrowed from that era)

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    By the way, wizard = brilliant, jape = joke, prank. So a wizard jape is a brilliant prank. He wasn't being entirely serious, of course :-)

    (It's early 19-something Brit upper-class speak. Or it might be Harry Potter, borrowed from that era)
    dammit! haha i thought he was on my side
    White belt
    My Youtube

  4. #53

    User Info Menu

    Fancy a cheeky Nando's?

  5. #54

    User Info Menu

    You two need a room

  6. #55

    User Info Menu

    put up your dukes jabroni
    White belt
    My Youtube

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Ah, there you are. Great, it's so nice when someone replies! No problem. I still don't know if there's a technical term for it, though. Never mind
    Yeah sorry been super busy and I like to go through replies with my guitar and try them out. I don't midn about the technical term really, who cares the info is what I need

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    I was going to do one of those video demos but I think words will do here, if you don't mind lots of them.

    Working out chord subs isn't that difficult given a modicum of knowledge. It helps to know that a m7b5 is three-chords-in one. Also tritones. Also chromatic moves. Etc.

    So:

    Bm7b5 - E7(b9) - Am7/Am6...

    Well, a 7b9 is practically a diminished chord so that could become

    Bm7b5 - Bo - Am7/6.


    Tritone the E7 and that becomes

    Bm7b5 - Bb7 - Am7/6

    Bm7b5 is also Dm6 so any Dm variation (Dm7, Dm9, Dm11) would do

    Dm11 - Bo - Am7/6
    Dm9 - G#o - Am7/6


    A Dm9 is like an FM7 so that would do

    FM7 - E7b9 - Am7/6
    FM9 - Bb7b5 - Am7/6


    Or a Dm could be subbed with a G7

    G7 - Bo - Am7/6
    G13 - G#o - Am7/6
    G13 - E7#9/B - Am7/6


    Or put two chords to a bar

    F#m7b5/Bb13 - Bm7b5/E7 - Am7/6

    And then get chromatic

    G7/Gb7 - F7/E7 - Am7/6

    And so on... The sky's the limit really (well, not quite). What matters, as always, is the voice leading, so the notes of the chords move nicely into each other.

    Sorry I just wanted to ask in this part where you got the F#m7b5/Bb13 from? The Bb is a backdoor dominant yes? But where is the F# taken from? It looks like the diatonic Fmaj7 with a flat 2nd?

    It was from this part of your list:

    - Or put two chords to a bar

    F#m7b5/Bb13 - Bm7b5/E7 - Am7/6

  9. #58

    User Info Menu

    By whose laws do you play the piano?

    The pleasure of my ears. - Debussy

  10. #59

    User Info Menu

    Babaluma -

    Hey, you're back, after all this time (sob)...

    where you got the F#m7b5/Bb13 from
    Lordy, I haven't the faintest idea... sounds nice, though, just played it :-)

    Probably:

    F#m7b5: sub for FM7 from C Lydian

    Bb7: sub for Bm7b5 (sub for G7) from C Aeolian

    At least, I think so. Others may have other ideas

  11. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Babaluma -

    Hey, you're back, after all this time (sob)...



    Lordy, I haven't the faintest idea... sounds nice, though, just played it :-)

    Probably:

    F#m7b5: sub for FM7 from C Lydian

    Bb7: sub for Bm7b5 (sub for G7) from C Aeolian

    At least, I think so. Others may have other ideas
    Ha ha good to be back! I start threads and then go back to practice from what I learned, it is like an encyclopedia!

    I actually realised what I said of the Bb, it can't be a back door dominant as that is normally a Major 7? I think your solutions make more sense and I will try them out

  12. #61

    User Info Menu

    Imaj7 IImin7 IIImin7 IVmaj7 V7 IV-7 VII-7b5... Diatonic chords
    Cmaj7 Dmin.7 Emin.7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin.7 B-7b5

    Imin7 II-7b5 bIIImaj7 IVmin7 Vmin7 bVImaj7 bVII7.....Borrowing from Relative Minor (Aeolian)
    Amin.7 B-7b5 Cmaj7 Dmin.7 Emin.7 Fmaj7 G7

    Imin7 II-7 bIIIma7 IV7 Vmi7 VI-7b5 bVIIma7 .....Borrowing from Relative Dorian Min
    Dmin.7 Emin.7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin.7 B-7b5 Cmaj7

    Imaj7 II7 IIImi7 #IV-7b5 Vma7 VImi7 bVII-7 .....Borrowing from Relative Lydian Maj.
    Fmaj7 G7 Amin.7 B-7b5 Cmaj7 Dmin.7 Emin.7

    You can keep expanding the borrowing from Relative relationships

    Then use parallel ...

    Imin7 II-7b5 bIIIma7 IVmin7 Vmin7 bVIma7 bVII7 ...borrowing from Parallel Min.
    Cmin7 D-7b5 Ebma7 Fmin7 Gmi7 Abma7 Bb7

    Imin7 IImi7 bIIIma7 IV7 Vmi7 VI-7b5 bVIIma7 ....borrowing from Parallel Dorian Min.
    Cmi7 Dmi7 Ebma7 Fmi7 G7 A-7b5 Bbma7

    You can keep expanding the parallel relations

    Now you can start using subs.... Dominants, Related II- or related V7s.... subs also includes using Chord patterns, Anychord can be a Target, and you can substitute a chord patterns. Chord Patterns can be common Diatonic chord patterns and also common Modal common chord patterns

    You can also use the Functional Sub organization.... like Matt was talking about.


    Somewhat a simple rule of thumb.... any target... can change chord quality or chord type.

    Ex.

    B-7b5 E7#9 / A-7 D7#9 / Gma69.... the target is Gmaj, so you can change the target, Gmaj7 to Gmin7 or G13 etc..

    And the reverse... A min. chord pattern can go to a Maj or Dom target

    The same rule of thumb works with Subs also.... any sub can have a different chord quality on top the same root.
    Ex. G7 Db7 Cma7..... G7 Dbma7 Cma7.... G7 Db-9 Cma7 etc...

  13. #62

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Babaluma View Post
    it can't be a back door dominant as that is normally a Major 7?
    No, the backdoor dominant is, precisely, a dominant chord but it's purpose is to sub for the V of the key - i.e. Bb7 instead of G7 (resolving to C).

    But not all substitutions for the V chord are dominants...

    This can get very, very complicated and I'd advise you to google it. Apart from it letting me off the hook :-)

  14. #63

    User Info Menu

    Many possibilities... basic starting source...

    Key of Cmaj.

    From or borrowed from Parallel Min.... which starts with Cmaj becoming Cmin. aeolian.

    The diatonic IV chord of Cmin is F-7 and the diatonic VII chord is bVII7 or Bb7.... so F-7 Bb7 / Cmin7. The F-7 and the Bb7 are from, borrowed from the Parallel Minor of C-. You could have... F-7 Bb7 / Cmaj7

    The F-7 Bb7 are usually heard of as Sub Dominant Minor chords... meaning they are subdominant chords from Parallel Min.
    With Jazz we usually use the that functional term and use Modal Interchange, rather than Borrowing... (Don't worry about Modal Interchange, it takes a while)

    So You can also think of the new Parallel Minor Cmin7 Aeolian as becoming the VI-7 or Functional Sub of Imaj7 or Ebmaj7

    So Cmaj7 becomes C-7, through Parallel Minor Borrowing or Modal Interchange.

    Then that C-7 becomes VI-7 of new Relative Maj... Ebma7.....

    So F-7 Bb7 / Ebmaj7 which becomes... II- V7 of the Relative Major (Ebma7) ... of the Parallel Minor of the original Target chord of Cma7
    And all the chords can become different types of subs...... Check out Cole Porter tunes, they all use some form of Relative or Parallel harmony.

  15. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    No, the backdoor dominant is, precisely, a dominant chord but it's purpose is to sub for the V of the key - i.e. Bb7 instead of G7 (resolving to C).

    But not all substitutions for the V chord are dominants...

    This can get very, very complicated and I'd advise you to google it. Apart from it letting me off the hook :-)
    Ah yes of course! Sorry I am confusing it with a Neapolitan chord for some reason! I am learning so much but I confuse the terminology sometimes even though I can see it in my head

  16. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Imaj7 IImin7 IIImin7 IVmaj7 V7 IV-7 VII-7b5... Diatonic chords
    Cmaj7 Dmin.7 Emin.7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin.7 B-7b5

    Imin7 II-7b5 bIIImaj7 IVmin7 Vmin7 bVImaj7 bVII7.....Borrowing from Relative Minor (Aeolian)
    Amin.7 B-7b5 Cmaj7 Dmin.7 Emin.7 Fmaj7 G7

    Imin7 II-7 bIIIma7 IV7 Vmi7 VI-7b5 bVIIma7 .....Borrowing from Relative Dorian Min
    Dmin.7 Emin.7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin.7 B-7b5 Cmaj7

    Imaj7 II7 IIImi7 #IV-7b5 Vma7 VImi7 bVII-7 .....Borrowing from Relative Lydian Maj.
    Fmaj7 G7 Amin.7 B-7b5 Cmaj7 Dmin.7 Emin.7

    You can keep expanding the borrowing from Relative relationships

    Then use parallel ...

    Imin7 II-7b5 bIIIma7 IVmin7 Vmin7 bVIma7 bVII7 ...borrowing from Parallel Min.
    Cmin7 D-7b5 Ebma7 Fmin7 Gmi7 Abma7 Bb7

    Imin7 IImi7 bIIIma7 IV7 Vmi7 VI-7b5 bVIIma7 ....borrowing from Parallel Dorian Min.
    Cmi7 Dmi7 Ebma7 Fmi7 G7 A-7b5 Bbma7

    You can keep expanding the parallel relations

    Now you can start using subs.... Dominants, Related II- or related V7s.... subs also includes using Chord patterns, Anychord can be a Target, and you can substitute a chord patterns. Chord Patterns can be common Diatonic chord patterns and also common Modal common chord patterns

    You can also use the Functional Sub organization.... like Matt was talking about.


    Somewhat a simple rule of thumb.... any target... can change chord quality or chord type.

    Ex.

    B-7b5 E7#9 / A-7 D7#9 / Gma69.... the target is Gmaj, so you can change the target, Gmaj7 to Gmin7 or G13 etc..

    And the reverse... A min. chord pattern can go to a Maj or Dom target

    The same rule of thumb works with Subs also.... any sub can have a different chord quality on top the same root.
    Ex. G7 Db7 Cma7..... G7 Dbma7 Cma7.... G7 Db-9 Cma7 etc...
    Great thanks for these two excellent and informative posts Reg, really helpful!

  17. #66
    Hey chord heads.. I'm a keyboardist and sometimes I sub in a D dominant over a C dominant omitted 5th.. To me.. It sounds pretty avant garde if played in the 1 tonic minor going to a iv minor..(of course u will have to omit a couple of notes to get this right on guitar).. Blessings All*