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Hi Everybody,
I'm in the very beginning of trying to build a very basic sense of rhythm for my playing and I'm struggling with a strange feeling of "anxiety" that I'm experiencing by using the metronome at increasing speed.
Even in extremely simple exercises (I've just started the Gary Hess book "Encyclopedia of Reading Rhythms" and I'm at the second exercises page, with just eight notes and rests), I do feel I'm reaching my "extreme" around 130-150bpm.
What I mean is that I'm not just uncomfortable with playing at this speed on the guitar, but also with tapping my foot and/or counting with my voice, as if I reached a "psychological" limit for me and not just a physical one linked to my dexterity with my hand and arm muscles.
I feel 150 bpm is too much for me and I cannot even imagine how people can play at 200bpm or more (and maybe hit 16th notes!!!),so I start getting anxious about the speed and making mistakes.
Does this make any sense related to your experience? Is it normal for a beginner? How can I go further my "psychological" limit, which seems to me the basic condition to properly address my physical practice on the guitar?
Thanks in advance for every opinion / suggestion / experience.
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04-04-2018 04:50 PM
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Do you put the click on every beat?
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I'd say just to know that it's relatively normal and to keep at it. Use it on every beat like it sounds like you're talking about, try some games with it (which I think Christian looks like he's about to offer some up... if he hasn't already while I'm typing this)... just keep at it and recognize your anxiety and breathe.
Originally Posted by darvil
Jazz is just singing and dancing... if you're feeling anxious with rhythm and time, just pay a lot of attention to that element of things. Maybe put the metronome on and don't try and play with it. Just literally listen to it. Maybe just drum out rhythms on your legs with it... not like a specific tempo, just play along like a drum circle. Maybe clap every 4 clicks. Maybe try and hear it and feel it in a wider way and move your body around or walk against it. Sing a slow melody over top... like All the Things is whole notes.
Or even turn off the metronome, put a record on, and just pay REALLY close attention to the bass player. Try and ignore everything else and just feel the quarter note bass line (assuming it swing and they're walking). Move your arms or your body against that. Walk to it. Ignore the soloist and just FEEL the pulse the bass player is giving us. If you can do that, listen to how the ride cymbal just dances around it and creates a swing feel.
Or even turn ALL of that stuff off and just meditate a little. Focus on your breathing or the sound of your heartbeat. Every time your mind wanders, just come back to the sound and feel of your breath or your heartbeat. Once you practice something like that enough it gets easier, and then you can try and shift your focus around when working with the metronome to try to relax into the steady tempo it's forcing you to follow.
And of course, just keep playing... either with people... or at least full tunes start to finish as though you were giving a solo performance if you're playing alone.
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Tapping the foot is not such a good way to keep time. (Kessel talks about this in his book on guitar.) But if you're going to do that, at faster tempo, just tap "one" (not 1, 2, 3,4).
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Play at the speed that is comfortable. When that is done kick up the tempo 5 bpm and do it again. Rinse and repeat.
I've come to the conclusion that as a 65 year old who's had surgery on my hands to relieve issues due to repetitive movement I will never play as fast as others. OTOH, I can still learn to play better and apply new ideas to the material I play.
Don't stress over it. Just strive to be a better player than you were 6 months ago and enjoy the journey. Everyone can't play 16th or even 8th notes at 200bpm.
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Amen Gramps!
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Its possible to be comfortable with 200+ while ticks landing on 2 and 4. 300+ even. Strangely, this being a good target tempo, that's just a perk. Playing normally, we just need to be able to keep a steady tempo and a good feel of the syncopation. It's well inside anyone's grasp really.
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Yes: 4/4 with click on every quarter note and usually a different click on the first one, so as to better know where each measure begins. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Thanks
jordanklemons, a lot of useful insights!
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That's what my book suggests, actually (together with counting loud). I don't necessary feel a need to do that, when I'm "playing" and not practicing I don't do it; I'm just trying to follow an established practicing routine. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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You can try different 'metronome' exercises and see what works for you. Keeping most of your practice in a small range should be avoided.
Working on one section (or song) at a wide variety of tempos is the thing. Some like to practice starting at a slower tempo, and increase, and increase more. Others will mix it up, slow-regular-moderately slow-fast without using a predictable approach.
My Yamaha has a light feature which I use without the sound option during some practice routines.
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Yeah. I thought so. Originally Posted by darvil
Try putting the click on 2 and 4, and tapping your foot on 1 and 3 (half time) or just 1.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Thanks. I apologize if this will sound like a stupid question, but: what's the benefit of doing that?
Tonight I'll try, I swear
, but I would like to understand what I'll be doing.
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Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
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Thanks! Still not completely clear to me, but definitely some useful 20 minutes of lesson.
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Just do it and see if it helps Originally Posted by darvil
Thanks. I apologize if this will sound like a stupid question, but: what's the benefit of doing that?
Tonight I'll try, I swear, but I would like to understand what I'll be doing.
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It’s really feeling the beat in half or quarter time. That’s the important bit. Originally Posted by christianm77
You have to learn to amalgamate and subdivide the beat.
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I will! Originally Posted by christianm77
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Also I remember that book has a lot of 16th stuff in it. Depends what exercises you are doing
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I have noticed that just as our ears get better at hearing intervals, melodies, and chords, they get better at hearing rhythm.
I have noticed recently that there are tempos that are too fast for me to hear accurately, especially for a given subdivision. In the short term, I may try to play bigger subdivisions, but over the long term, I think my rhythmic hearing improves so that I can hear "faster."
I used to think my speed problems were only an issue of playing mechanics, but I think now it is also related to hearing.
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Yeah, as others have mentioned, the trick--especially at faster tempos, is to divide the beat and count less...it relaxes you. Seriously.
It's an easy experiment...set a metronome to click on all 4 quarters at a brisk tempo, and go ahead and tap your foot a long and play...then just 2 and 4...then 1 and 3...then just 1...notice the difference.
You'll feel a big shift from tapping on 2 and 4 to 1 and 3...and then when you go to just the 1, wow...
Eventually, you might be able to go further...tap your foot once every 2, 4 bars...
As for foot tapping not being a good way to keep time...well...make sure you're keeping time. Doesn't have to be a big ol foot stomp. I kinda twitch my toes inside my shoe. You probably wouldn't see anything if I did it in front of you, but trust me, if the beat is a bit "amorphous" (or I'm playing solo) it's there.
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I think this is profoundly important. Definitely true for me. I spent a considerable amount of time playing slow ballad chord melody, and really subdividing down to lower subdivisions. One of the unintended consequences was what you're describing about faster tempos. Originally Posted by dingusmingus
Makes sense if you think about it. You can't really use Galper's half-time strategy if you can't hear smaller subdivisions really well. Hearing 8ths as 16ths is cool if you can hear 16ths in the first place. But actually, I'd say it's probably more like being able to hear double-time 8th note triplets, that is if you're talking about swing. Straight 16ths aren't really the reference.
But yeah. Subdivide your ballad playing down to 8th note triplets or even double time. Listen to a lot of Wes's ballad playing. Listen to Billie and Lester. Counter intuitive -sounding with re to playing fast, but when you subdivide more, 8th notes begin to sound huge.
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Overall
There's nothing wrong; it just sounds like you are working through the normal course of what it feels like before the habits, techniques, and conceptual grasps become fully internalized, integrated... you can't force this anymore than you can force a house plant grow; you have to give it what it needs and let it develop, patiently.
About anxiety
This is a source of tension, pressure, and distraction; you don't want that when practicing, playing, or performing, so it is good that you recognize it and realize it's a negative influence.
About speed
You must have faith that speed comes naturally with time on the instrument, just like we all had faith that our finger tips would stop aching so much after being guitarists for a few weeks. Similarly, just like the aching could not be avoided or remedied except by playing through it over time, speed is not something you can really accomplish except through time.
The important thing is not to focus on speed as an end, but to develop the habits that promote and enable "good speed" - a whole bunch of aspects that you should be focusing on now like accuracy, articulation, picking, phrasing, tone, dynamics, fingering and hand position and geometry, and the whole constellation of micro-techniques that will eventually support "good speed".
It is critical that advances in speed always reflect and contain the results of these technical improvements as solid habits. Your primary focus should be musical quality and the development of habits that preserve it.
About timing and rhythm
As others have mentioned, the conceptual resolution of pace (feeling it as each beat, or alternate beats, or just the one beat, etc.) naturally changes with experience - one learns to feel increasingly longer segments of time as the "unit" of the pace. This becomes important later as one plays faster and learns how to map and lay down lines of notes into increasingly longer segments of time. For now you should go slow and count at a pace that matches your play. As you become faster, you will "shift from 1st gear" thinking "1 an 2 an 3 an 4 an" to 2nd gear thinking "1 2 3 4" and on up until you might just feel the bigger spans. With time and experience you may find you have learned to "count" without counting - feeling it rather than mentally verbalizing it... a lot of conceptual things in playing are subject to this shift from thinking to just doing (have faith in this, too).
If tapping your foot feels awkward, try doing it "Jazz style" where you gently bounce your heel rather than your toes... a lot of people find this to be much more natural and less exhausting, especially when standing.
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Lots of valuable advice, many thanks to everybody!
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A look a bit from the other side...
try to play what you practice - the lines first of all... as very very staccato... as much staccato as possible...
At a slow tempo.. then progress keeping it staacato
You will be surprised when one day maybe in a week or you may find that you can play it 2 or even 3 or 4 times faster than you could.. and all sounds clean
The next point - when you play it at such a speed you feel yourself a bit abstract from it.. it will be like your finger play it on there own.
THis helps this psychologicl thing too... it makes something like a leap into another direction.
PS
I did not invent thos staccato thing, I used fro lutes and it was described by Pat O'Brian who also taught for folk guitar and classical player. His idea is tat if you slow down very fast player you will hear there are little micropauses between the notes
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