Advice for aspiring jazz guitar players

[christianm77]

Interesting. I like learning from singers too but I find it's usually easier to learn from an instrumental. Nailing a vocalist's phrasing can be tricky if they're being sneaky with phrasing (and usually they are) and I find I get a better "handle" on the melody if I have at least one instrumental version to relate my playing to. So where possible, I'll learn from both.

I also don't like learning from a very slow version of anything - so I try to find slightly faster versions of "ballads". If I learn at a comfortable tempo then I can take the tempo up or down, change the feel, etc on my own. But even then, there are exceptions Chet Baker sings pretty straight and is easy to learn from at any tempo, even if he's singing.

I find the words help me remember the tune most times. But everyone's different.

It's true vocalists of the Golden Age have sophisticated swing phrasing (that's a good thing, no?)... But many sing the actual melodies pretty straight pitch wise - Ella and Frank being the classic examples. I would advise against learning melodies from Billie Holiday for example.

I also feel it's an important thing just to listen to stuff over and over again and not get too caught up. One day you catch yourself singing along with Sinatra, and then you know the song. Then it's time to put it on the guitar.

[Reg]

Nice thread... there are many levels of performance. Basic musicianship helps, but I've performed with many somewhat one style, feel etc. players, and it's still fun and audiences still seem to enjoy the music.

The only thing I would change is the sight reading thing... years ago changes and kicks were enough... but in the last 20 years... you need to read well, or your not going to have the chance to perform with that many great performers, maybe your friends or if your funding the project or performance.

When one begins the working musician thing... time is generally most important, the groove, feel etc... but as one gets better... time become natural, instinctive etc... then what you actually play moves out front., then you get to the point of being able to play what you want... and the music and performance of all involved becomes the focus. My goal... always is to help bring out the music and make the performers sound their best. (their best, not what I think is their best).

The next step is to break down the skills and how to develop them.

[2handband]

I'm not a great jazz player, but like the original poster I'm a professional (semi-retired) guitarist. Also a teacher. I'm going to add the following to his advice. If I could get every student to practice this way...

1) Always break stuff down into the smallest possible challenge. Don't learn the third chord until you can play the first two perfectly without fail every single time! The amateur practices till he gets it right, the pro until he can't get it wrong.

2) Never ever play anything faster than you can play it flawlessly. If you are making mistakes you are practicing too fast. Period; end of sentence. Remember, if you make mistakes while practicing you are practicing mistakes!

3) Learning an instrument is one of the few things in life where you MUST be a perfectionist if you want to get any good. See the above two points.

4) Always always always practice with a metronome.

[christianm77]

I'm not a great jazz player, but like the original poster I'm a professional (semi-retired) guitarist. Also a teacher. I'm going to add the following to his advice. If I could get every student to practice this way...

1) Always break stuff down into the smallest possible challenge. Don't learn the third chord until you can play the first two perfectly without fail every single time! The amateur practices till he gets it right, the pro until he can't get it wrong.

2) Never ever play anything faster than you can play it flawlessly. If you are making mistakes you are practicing too fast. Period; end of sentence. Remember, if you make mistakes while practicing you are practicing mistakes!

3) Learning an instrument is one of the few things in life where you MUST be a perfectionist if you want to get any good. See the above two points.

4) Always always always practice with a metronome.

Good points.

I disagree with 4. Vary it. Over reliance on a click can weaken your sense of pulse.

[2handband]

Good points.

I disagree with 4. Vary it. Over reliance on a click can weaken your sense of pulse.

I'm thinking mostly when you're specifically working to improve technique. The metronome keeps you honest. You play something at a tempo at which you can play it flawlessly at all times. Then bump it up five BPM. Still perfect? Another five. Keep going till you make a mistake, then back it off to the last place you could play it perfectly and spend five minutes playing at that tempo. Then try going up again. This is like magic if you do it right and are persistent.

[christianm77]

I'm thinking mostly when you're specifically working to improve technique. The metronome keeps you honest. You play something at a tempo at which you can play it flawlessly at all times. Then bump it up five BPM. Still perfect? Another five. Keep going till you make a mistake, then back it off to the last place you could play it perfectly and spend five minutes playing at that tempo. Then try going up again. This is like magic if you do it right and are persistent.

Yes I use the metronome - usually very slow - for work on technique stuff. If I can play it relaxed, accurate, even and slow, then playing it at full speed is usually not so much of a problem.

My approach with technique is to never make a mistake and always practice as slow as required for the passage to be effortless. I then practice it at that very slow speed a few times. Little and often....

Mostly the purpose of the metronome is to tell you how slow slow is.

[matt.guitarteacher]

2) Never ever play anything faster than you can play it flawlessly. If you are making mistakes you are practicing too fast. Period; end of sentence. Remember, if you make mistakes while practicing you are practicing mistakes!

A student who always play everything way too fast/sloppy is a common problem, and this is a good solution for it.

But this very common "never" rule is somewhat contentious as well. There's belief among a great number of technique gurus that intermittent variations in speed "comfort levels" is almost a requirement for breaking through certain tempo barriers. All motion isn't scalable, or some such...

I've experimented with this more recently, and it does help. I've always been slower....

There was a good lesson posted on this here recently. Can't remember where it was.

[2handband]

A student who always play everything way too fast/sloppy is a common problem, and this is a good solution for it.

But this very common "never" rule is somewhat contentious as well. There's belief among a great number of technique gurus that intermittent variations in speed "comfort levels" is almost a requirement for breaking through certain tempo barriers. All motion isn't scalable, or some such...

I've experimented with this more recently, and it does help. I've always been slower....

There was a good lesson posted on this here recently. Can't remember where it was.

It worked for me... I can play pretty much as fast as I want to. Which leaves you very free to focus on other aspects of your playing. If you practice the way I outlined above you can even tackle stuff that is way beyond your level if you have the patience; after all ANYTHING is easy if you play it slowly enough.

For example, when I was a relative beginner I wanted to play the solo to Over the Mountain by Ozzy Osbourne (funny, I hate the song now). It was obviously very beyond my reach, but I asked myself: can I play the first four notes up to tempo if I practice them over and over four hours a day for two weeks? The answer was no... it took me about three. But then the next four notes came much more quickly.

Now I don't recommend this approach to everyone. The basic methodology, yes, but I usually advise people to use it on a challenge a bit closer to his/her actual level. I am not always very good at judging how long it will take me to master something, but my persistence will generally overcome my lack of judgement so it doesn't kill me if I go over a bit on my self-imposed deadline. Most people are not as pigheaded as I am and will get discouraged if they don't make it within the stated timeframe, so I usually recommend that most be a bit more conservative with their choices than I am.

[clebergf]

Great topic Christian.
Two years ago when I decided to play and focus on Swing and Traditional Jazz I just "stopped" to listen any other style that is not Swing and Trad (I know this is a bit radical, but I grew up in Brazil listen to a lot of samba, mbp, pop and rock).
Today I mostly listen to those styles only, of course that I go to see gigs from all kind of style and I like them, but my "Spotify" listening is Swing and Trad 95% of the time. This is the way that I found to try to absorbe the language and understand the music.
I'm enjoying and have a lot of fun with all this stuff, so I think this is the "right" path to me.