The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hello all,

    after a slightly frustrating time out period (about a yr) in my learning I am trying to get back on the horse.

    I have decided to prioritize improving my ear but am finding it very frustrating. A few years ago I realised i couldnt hear intervals to save my life, so set to working at them. I was happily surprised at how quickly a few mins a day on a phone app meant my ear improved dramatically. Now I know them they havent left me in my time out.


    on returning to my instrument i think one of the reasons my playing is struggling to get off the ground is that i'm a massive victim of years of noodling, instead of chasing ideas from head to fretboard.

    with this is mind I had set out trying to sing the chord tones of progressions I know at all octaves, and finding it very tough. I can sing the roots of all the chords easy enough. And i can sing all of the tones of the key chord too. But for example if i am playing say a 1 6 2 5, it becomes very hard for me to sing the 5th of the 6 chord without thinking of it in relation to the 1 chord. - the major third.

    is this something that can be learned in this manner, or do you think the notes come to you after years of playing? (because they havent done that to me just yet!)

    any thoughts are appreciated as always.
    Last edited by basinstreet; 08-09-2016 at 03:05 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    no, you just aren't used to pulling the inner voices out of the air is all.

    Singing is an instrument, too. we all had to take sight-singing in music school. I had it one semester at 8am. We called it "sight screaming"

    but its a musical skill, and like all musical skills it takes some time to develop.

    the 3rd of the 6th chord is the tonic of the key, btw, so I'm guessing that its just a new thing you are trying and are running into roadblocks

    what you might want to try is to play just the notes of the line you want to sing through the chords so you can get a firm picture in your mind of the notes. Then when the notes are in your head, play the chords and sing the line through them


    but being able to play whatever you hear in your head is a good thing for a jazz player to be able to do, so singing what you are playing does help

    I think playing along with whatever music is on the TV at the moment is another good ear training practice. Theme music of the movie you're watching, the jingles on the commercials...all that is real good ear training. This is what we did before there were phone apps, BTW

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by basinstreet
    But for example if i am playing say a 1 6 2 5, it becomes very hard for me to sing the 5th of the 6 chord without thinking of it in relation to the 1 chord. - the major third.
    .
    What's wrong with thinking of it that way? 1 6 2 5 is a diatonic progression; you should just sing melodies in solfege. so, the note you're referencing is "Mi" over the 1 chord, "Mi" over the 6th chord, "Mi" over the 2 chord. In Key of C, E over a C chord, E over Amin, E over Dm etc
    Last edited by joe2758; 08-09-2016 at 03:52 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by basinstreet
    Hello all,

    after a slightly frustrating time out period (about a yr) in my learning I am trying to get back on the horse.

    I have decided to prioritize improving my ear but am finding it very frustrating. A few years ago I realised i couldnt hear intervals to save my life, so set to working at them. I was happily surprised at how quickly a few mins a day on a phone app meant my ear improved dramatically. Now I know them they havent left me in my time out.


    on returning to my instrument i think one of the reasons my playing is struggling to get off the ground is that i'm a massive victim of years of noodling, instead of chasing ideas from head to fretboard.

    with this is mind I had set out trying to sing the chord tones of progressions I know at all octaves, and finding it very tough. I can sing the roots of all the chords easy enough. And i can sing all of the tones of the key chord too. But for example if i am playing say a 1 6 2 5, it becomes very hard for me to sing the 5th of the 6 chord without thinking of it in relation to the 1 chord. - the major third.

    is this something that can be learned in this manner, or do you think the notes come to you after years of playing? (because they havent done that to me just yet!)

    any thoughts are appreciated as always.
    I've never done as much of that kind of thing is maybe I should have, but I found similar issues when trying to sing roots. Ironically, slightly larger patterns are somewhat easier to hear . You might try 1-2-3 or 1-2-3-5 patterns over each chord. If you're cycling in fourths, like a 1625, you get an approach tone to the next root , which is actually easier.

    La ti do mi | re mi fa la ....is EASIER to sing than la --- | re --- for example. The funny thing is that if you sing these patterns for a few minutes, you'll be able to hear the root movement better as well, whether you're singing all of it out loud or not. Starting at the beginning with fewer pitches is not always easier. :-)

  6. #5

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    Try just singing the arpeggio of each chord from the root. Play each chord in root position as you do this. It's fairly simple to train your ear to hear all the intervals of the basic 7th chords, from the root up. Once you can sing the 1-3-5-7 of all the chords, then try singling out just all the 3s, 5ths, 7ths etc...or the 1 & 5, or the 1 & 3, or the 1 & 7. Try different combinations & patterns just like you might when practicing arpeggios on guitar. If your using the solfege, use relative "do" system, that's the entire point of it - to train your ear to hear the different intervals in relation to do. In other words sing each chord with the root of the chord being "do".
    Last edited by Guitarzen; 08-09-2016 at 11:40 PM.

  7. #6

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    I am terrible at this, so...

    Still, I found solfege (as others suggested) much more rewarding for ear training than singing "one..three..five..flaaatseveeen". "do-mi-sol-te" just works somehow. And if I'm singing an arpeggio on the 6th: "la-do-mi" As others suggested movable do solfege also helps to train the brain on common tones in triads and chords.

    Of course, my vocal range is barely more than an octave. So singing is somewhat limited for that reason as well. And I can't sing more than one note at a time (wouldn't that be cool?). So I usually am just trying to listen and sing the lowest note in a chord. Trying to detect the middle voices by singing arpeggios with the changes is savant territory I think.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Trying to detect the middle voices by singing arpeggios with the changes is savant territory I think.
    1st year music major stuff. No need to be a savant. It just takes practice like everything.

  9. #8

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    Scat-singing through an improv interlude has helped me in my blues improv, in that it forces my mind to interpolate what it is hearing with what it is commanding the fingers to do. No doubt it's much harder when dealing in jazz -- more complex scales changing more quickly.

    I don't do solfege, as that creates another thought-process that I'd just as soon do without (I don't want to think words, but tones); but co-ordinating the mind's ear with finger commands (for both hands) is trainable ... even a hack like myself benefits from it.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarzen
    1st year music major stuff. No need to be a savant. It just takes practice like everything.
    That is why I never would have made it as a music major. 1st year students can arpeggiate with their voice chord changes in time just by hearing a passage? Humbling.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    That is why I never would have made it as a music major. 1st year students can arpeggiate with their voice chord changes in time just by hearing a passage? Humbling.
    I don't know about that. I went to NTSU in the jazz department and had ear trianing and sight signing as a freshman and sophomore and had to pass a barrier exam before my junior year

    singing intervals, yes, we did a lot of that freshman year. And that is really the fundamental skill that you need to sign through inner voices

    but singing arpeggiated jazz changes on the fly, no, that's not what he was talking about

    what I took it to mean was that first year music students are taught the skills that are necessary to do that

    first, signing arpeggios in tune is just hard, and you can get into the limits of your range pretty easily. What makes more sense, and what would be more useful to you as a player would be to be able to sing one of the inner voices as the 3rd resolves to the 7th of the next chord and so forth. Think 4 part chorale style. The soprano line is the melody, the bass/baritone part is the bass and the tenor and alto lines are your inner voices. You would want to sing the tenor and alto lines.

    when you take a solo, then, these notes would be your "guide tones" and you would be weaving a line embellishing those notes. that's one application, anyway

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    That is why I never would have made it as a music major. 1st year students can arpeggiate with their voice chord changes in time just by hearing a passage? Humbling.
    No, but you do lots of ear training, music dictation, sight-singing, practicing singing and hearing intervals, singing scales & modes & chord types. So yeah, first year (& second year) music major stuff. But I meant you start learning and practicing it, you don't necessarily master it in your 1st year. Does everything have to be a hyperbole with you? ;o)

  13. #12

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    Good comments. I've been doing the Bruce Arnold stuff for a while and that's all with reference to the basic key. Even modulations.

  14. #13

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    Have you ever considered getting a cheap keyboard, one of those semi-toy electronic pianos?
    On a guitar, we often play from the hand. Or as you think of it, we noodle. Make music that comes from the hand and is enjoyed by the ear.
    Ear training and solfege is a constructive and identifying process. That's a whole lot easier on an instrument that actually IS somewhat logical.
    Getting a piano will force you to slow down, get to the basics. It's new.
    It will let you hear the landscape of the chordal scale, and SEE it too.
    It can let you compose intervallic micro pieces that will help your ear to identify. And you can feel as well as hear intervallic distance on a keyboard.
    Singing syllables on a piano is really kind of easy. It's way too easy to miss and fall flat on your ass on a guitar when you're making up intervallic exercises. On a piano, you can see it.

    Just a suggestion. Good luck

    David

  15. #14

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    like David says, a little piano can go a long ways to help this sort of thing

    when I was at NTSU they also made me take 2 years of piano and pass a barrier exam on piano, too. Everybody had to take 2 years of piano

    except the piano players...they got a pass

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Miller
    like David says, a little piano can go a long ways to help this sort of thing

    when I was at NTSU they also made me take 2 years of piano and pass a barrier exam on piano, too. Everybody had to take 2 years of piano

    except the piano players...they got a pass
    They had to play button accordion.

  17. #16

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    Nothing is too ambitious.

    I used to study/play with a smokin hot trumpet player. He would play a chord at the piano and ask us to sing a given chord tone.

    When he was feeling like really pushing us, he would play some type of minor chord and ask us to sing the major 3rd.

    At the beginning, it feels near important. But it just takes time and practice.

    Also studied with a guitar player who did something similar using our guitars. He would ask me to play a note, then he'd harmonize that note with a chord, and without looking at his fretboard, I had to identify which chord tone I was playing, and then use that info to know what chord he playing. That was tough. But a lot of fun.

    Nothing is too ambitious. I say, if you want to achieve something, just start working towards it. Be creative about how you approach it. And be patient with yourself. Little bits every day.

  18. #17

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    Singing what you play is a great idea; not too ambitious, just take it slow...

    Using solfeggio (do-re-mi) is a very helpful tool to keep clear in your mind the relation of any tone or chord to the root, including all the "color" notes and "blue" notes. I'm glad I learned it years ago. If you can do it in real time, its bound to inform your improvising.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    Have you ever considered getting a cheap keyboard, one of those semi-toy electronic pianos?

    Just a suggestion. Good luck

    David
    Funny that you suggest this. I live in liverpool and they have placed free pianos around the centre for people to use. I sat in the rain playing yesterday (the day not the song) thinking " i really must get a cheap one for my flat"

    Thanks for all the replies, i just did a fairly detailed response, and lost it due to chrome not liking me installing something at the same time so i'll power phrase.

    Its good to see that people think it is a) achievable and b) not easy.

    slight tangent - I am wary of playing what i am scatting. often i think i have some lines flowing through my head, but when i play them it turns out they are just nonsense. I think the clarity of the note in my head is poor, so I dont realise its not a good note choice.

    I remember seeing a trumpeter (cant remember who) when asked about what he is thinking whilst he played.

    He said " a lot of people think i am thinking 'duh dah daaaah' but really i am thinking "DUH DAH DAAAAH" (the same notes shouted)

    so i think its important to have that really clear note in your head ,this is what i hope to achieve from the exercise. good to know there are a few routes there.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by basinstreet
    Funny that you suggest this. I live in liverpool and they have placed free pianos around the centre for people to use. I sat in the rain playing yesterday (the day not the song) thinking " i really must get a cheap one for my flat"

    Thanks for all the replies, i just did a fairly detailed response, and lost it due to chrome not liking me installing something at the same time so i'll power phrase.

    Its good to see that people think it is a) achievable and b) not easy.

    slight tangent - I am wary of playing what i am scatting. often i think i have some lines flowing through my head, but when i play them it turns out they are just nonsense. I think the clarity of the note in my head is poor, so I dont realise its not a good note choice.

    I remember seeing a trumpeter (cant remember who) when asked about what he is thinking whilst he played.

    He said " a lot of people think i am thinking 'duh dah daaaah' but really i am thinking "DUH DAH DAAAAH" (the same notes shouted)

    so i think its important to have that really clear note in your head ,this is what i hope to achieve from the exercise. good to know there are a few routes there.
    Dizzy Gillespie