Gypsy Jazz

[Hep To The Jive]

Rhythm playing is an art. If you think its nothing special, you probably aren't very good at it.

I've said it forever...to be a truly great rhythm pkayer--truly great--in any stle, is infinitely harder than being a "lead" player.

But mI still folks play shit boring accompanyment. Myself included.

I'm only talking about in GJ context, not in general. If you play that style, it's the first thing to master. It's not super hard, once you got a feel for it, you are all set. Kinda like playing Ska, after a while it's just a physical thing.

Sorry, I never had a hard time with it, so I consider myself pretty good (suck at solos, though), but I have no interest to pursue it. I love too many styles and grooves to stick to just that.

[Stringswinger]

I'm only talking about in GJ context, not in general. If you play that style, it's the first thing to master. It's not super hard, once you got a feel for it, you are all set. Kinda like playing Ska, after a while it's just a physical thing.

Sorry, I never had a hard time with it, so I consider myself pretty good (suck at solos, though), but I have no interest to pursue it. I love too many styles and grooves to stick to just that.

Most guys who claim to play Gypsy jazz suck at rhythm guitar. In fact most accomplished "modern" jazz players suck at it too. Comp is short for accompany. Most jazz guitarists lack the endurance and good time to keep a steady groove and are way too busy. The rule for good rhythm guitar is keep it simple and keep it consistent.

There is a different technique for doing Gypsy rhythm vs. American (Freddy Green style) rhythm. Both take work to master. Different chords are used and the right hand technique is different as well. Like all things jazz guitar wise, it takes time and practice. Some of us master it faster than others do.

The one place a Gypsy guitar works well is for a drummerless combo. They have a banjo like crunch that acoustic archtops and flattops lack. Many high end, solid wood Gypsy guitars lack that crunch. They are great guitars for a player who likes the look of a Gypsy guitar, but does not use the orthodox Gypsy technique. The Gitanes, Ciganos, Alta Miras and Latcho Droms are all good budget guitars, if you find a good one. I have played many and can say that the quality is all over the place. The best maker that I have found is Dupont. Most are good, some are excellent. None are cheap.

The Djangobooks forum has some snotty Gypsy jazz purists from time to time (most of whom are not great players). But it can be a good place to learn about all things Gypsy jazz. And Michael Horowitz, the owner of Djangobooks.com is a great guy to do business with.

I still get called for Gypsy jazz gigs from time to time and I love listening to Bireli and Stochelo. I have jammed with Angelo and the Ferre brothers and can hold my own within the genre. But I would way rather be playing a more "American" sound with an archtop. Some guys love the pure Gypsy jazz thing. Different strokes for different folks applies. It is all good!

[Hep To The Jive]

Most guys who claim to play Gypsy jazz suck at rhythm guitar. In fact most accomplished "modern" jazz players suck at it too. Comp is short for accompany. Most jazz guitarists lack the endurance and good time to keep a steady groove and are way too busy. The rule for good rhythm guitar is keep it simple and keep it consistent.

There is a different technique for doing Gypsy rhythm vs. American (Freddy Green style) rhythm. Both take work to master. Different chords are used and the right hand technique is different as well. Like all things jazz guitar wise, it takes time and practice. Some of us master it faster than others do.

The one place a Gypsy guitar works well is for a drummerless combo. They have a banjo like crunch that acoustic archtops and flattops lack. Many high end, solid wood Gypsy guitars lack that crunch. They are great guitars for a player who likes the look of a Gypsy guitar, but does not use the orthodox Gypsy technique. The Gitanes, Ciganos, Alta Miras and Latcho Droms are all good budget guitars, if you find a good one. I have played many and can say that the quality is all over the place. The best maker that I have found is Dupont. Most are good, some are excellent. None are cheap.

The Djangobooks forum has some snotty Gypsy jazz purists from time to time (most of whom are not great players). But it can be a good place to learn about all things Gypsy jazz. And Michael Horowitz, the owner of Djangobooks.com is a great guy to do business with.

I still get called for Gypsy jazz gigs from time to time and I love listening to Bireli and Stochelo. I have jammed with Angelo and the Ferre brothers and can hold my own within the genre. But I would way rather be playing a more "American" sound with an archtop. Some guys love the pure Gypsy jazz thing. Different strokes for different folks applies. It is all good!

I agree that a lot of jazz guitarists lack endurance, or what I like to call it , a stamina. Modern comp styles do not require a constant repetitive strumming assault, that is a cornerstone of GJ rhythm playing IMO, and rather ask for more loose and flexible time.

Now, it might sound weird, but I think what helped me a lot is years of playing in punk/ska/swing/rockabilly bands, where you play aggressive rhythm 99% of the time, and you gotta be locking in with a drummer and be super precise. Since I already had jazz college education and knew all the basic jazz chords and turnarounds, by the time I came to my first GJ jam, I kinda picked it up naturally and didnt struggle too much with the rhythm playing.

Do I do it purely GJ? Probably not, but it's close enough, and after played countless gigs without a drummer and making people dance I'm really not concerned with it. OTOH learning how to play solos and be consistently good, oh boy, I got a long way to go...

Looking back, for almost 3 years I religiously followed all the GJ jams around town, got to know the top players, learning on the job, got my ass kicked so many times, and still do, but how else to learn??

[christianm77]

Most guys who claim to play Gypsy jazz suck at rhythm guitar. In fact most accomplished "modern" jazz players suck at it too. Comp is short for accompany. Most jazz guitarists lack the endurance and good time to keep a steady groove and are way too busy. The rule for good rhythm guitar is keep it simple and keep it consistent.

There is a different technique for doing Gypsy rhythm vs. American (Freddy Green style) rhythm. Both take work to master. Different chords are used and the right hand technique is different as well. Like all things jazz guitar wise, it takes time and practice. Some of us master it faster than others do.

The one place a Gypsy guitar works well is for a drummerless combo. They have a banjo like crunch that acoustic archtops and flattops lack. Many high end, solid wood Gypsy guitars lack that crunch. They are great guitars for a player who likes the look of a Gypsy guitar, but does not use the orthodox Gypsy technique. The Gitanes, Ciganos, Alta Miras and Latcho Droms are all good budget guitars, if you find a good one. I have played many and can say that the quality is all over the place. The best maker that I have found is Dupont. Most are good, some are excellent. None are cheap.

The Djangobooks forum has some snotty Gypsy jazz purists from time to time (most of whom are not great players). But it can be a good place to learn about all things Gypsy jazz. And Michael Horowitz, the owner of Djangobooks.com is a great guy to do business with.

I still get called for Gypsy jazz gigs from time to time and I love listening to Bireli and Stochelo. I have jammed with Angelo and the Ferre brothers and can hold my own within the genre. But I would way rather be playing a more "American" sound with an archtop. Some guys love the pure Gypsy jazz thing. Different strokes for different folks applies. It is all good!

Great post.

I too like the American swing thing in preference to the gypsy thing, but everytime I hear Django I just get knocked sideways. But I would say I prefer the American rhythm sections...

Anyway, I would say in my own quest to improve my skills, working on rhythm guitar has been a constant feature. Mostly simplifying things tbh, but also learning dynamic control and subtlety in how I play with other rhythm section players. Lots to explore....

Furthermore there are a lot different styles of rhythm guitar within swing.

[Stringswinger]

Great post.

I too like the American swing thing in preference to the gypsy thing, but everytime I hear Django I just get knocked sideways. But I would say I prefer the American rhythm sections...

Anyway, I would say in my own quest to improve my skills, working on rhythm guitar has been a constant feature. Mostly simplifying things tbh, but also learning dynamic control and subtlety in how I play with other rhythm section players. Lots to explore....

Furthermore there are a lot different styles of rhythm guitar within swing.

No doubt about it, Django's playing is music for the ages. He is one of the most important jazz guitarists ever and IMO, too may "jazz" guitarists fail to listen to and absorb Django's contribution to our art. I also think that if modern jazz guitarists spent more time working on rhythm guitar, they would be better musicians.

Five hundred years from now, many of todays jazz guitarists will be long forgotten (myself included), but I predict that Django will be among the few that will be immortalized, so long as Western culture survives.