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Hi, I'm the new guy, I like a great deal of music out there by jazz guitarists. It's creative, and covers are expanded upon and seem to flow more naturally than the originals most times
. Then I hear someone refered to as a "Jazz Great" play in a manner that seems to me like I should call 911 and report a stroke in progress, and suddenly you hear one person begin to clap, and then a small group joins in clapping, and I can't help but think, it's just people afraid they won't be considered hip
. Then I feel bad because I can't find enough dots to make the connection
. I know rock, but by instinct,will cut an evil eye at anyone that says the 80's rocked.
This probably is not a good starter question, but, how would you define jazz in a way that every jazzer that heard it would agree with you?
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"If you have to ask, you'll never know" - Louis Armstrong.
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I don't think you can define it in a way that everyone will agree with, unless you are willing to accept a lot of vague terms in the definition. Beebop is not easy listening, yet both are at times considered jazz. Ragtime is different again. The other thread in chat has probably more meaningful definitions than you'll find most places.
I agree about 80s rock, by the way. But in your example about jazz, perhaps the audience had a different aesthetic than you and did appreciate what was played. Or perhaps you are calling it exactly right. Who understands people? Jazz is hard enough to play without having to figure out the audience.
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Don't try to explain, just feel.
Peace
Skei (the explorer of outer space one)
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That's the pot talkin' Louie, snap out of it!
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Thanks Bluesguy, makes sense!
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Thanks Skei
Peace is good
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Most forms of music have some improvisational aspects. Rock, blues, country, etc., all allow space for soloists to blow over the tune. In jazz, all parts of the tune, from the harmony, time, and melody are fair game for improvisation. That, imo is one of the major places where jazz deviates from other forms of music.
Also, there is not too much diatonic jazz, though there certainly is some. Most jazz tunes weave in and out of a few keys. From where I sit, these are a couple of the most defining aspects. If you were talking about jazz before the 60's, you could also toss in the ii V I progession, like you could say rock was I IV V based before Nirvana.
By the way, say what you want about 80's rock, but they were MUCH better musicians than today's average player imo. Those guys knew their instruments.
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"Jazz isn't a style of music, it is an attitude about making music" Jim Hall
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Surely your own example, about 80's rock, answers your own question! It's all in the eye of the beholder. To many (unfortunate IMHO) people 'jazz' seems to be synonymous with elevators. Where I'm from (the UK), if you see an ad for some band playing jazz in the local park, you'll likely turn up and find them playing as if nothing has changed since 1940.
I find it really frustrating actually, as few of my friends/colleagues listen to jazz and often have some narrow, preconceived notion about what it is.
If you like jazz, then jazz is whatever you think it is, and if you don't like jazz, then it doesn't matter.
I always think Duke Ellington said it best: 'It don't mean a thing........' but that's just my opinion!
Anyway, what first attracted me to jazz was just the relentless drive of it, especially 50's/60's stuff. To me, jazz rocks!
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When I was in High School I studied Latin. We were told that in Latin, you spend the first year learning all the rules, then the next four years learning all the exceptions to the rules. I think jazz is similar. The only definition I ever used which is outdated now was: jazz is a blues-based music that swings.
My personal belief is that "Jazz" as a definable entity, is no longer being created. What we have today are players trained in jazz techniques, history and sensibilities playing a wide range of mainly improvised music.
So if I believe that Jazz no longer exists, does this site have any purpose? Of course it does because jazz has produced so many great players that study or analysis of their work will always make us better players, regardless of the genre we choose for our own self-expression.
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Jazz is jazz. You can try to define it and fail but you will never fail to recognise it.
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has "Jazz" something to do with "chase"?
Most guys talk about the feeling
never knowing, but "Jazz" -no opinion what that means,
It's just me, but it reminds me of Johann Sebastian Bach
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oh dear, you're talking about "Latin"?
Blue Bossa over the years...
quidquid agis prudenter agas - and jazz -respice finem.
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naturally, it don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that swing...
but what else??
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o -
jazz is nondefined
Django Reinhardt wouldn't define it
he'd prefer on ,don't know..
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oh God,
"jazz" might be a challenge
but I don't know what it is!!
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hm, why not singing for no purpose?
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hi derek
I agree with you on the skills of 80's guitarists. Atomic Tommy McClenden (UFO), and Willie Hines (Jet Red) both live here and can knock your sox off any day of the week, Tommy is doing an acoustic guitar trio gig right now and I'm sure the place will be packed! And when Willie drops in at a club he is the focus. He owns "Replay Records", and can converse in any genre, he loves music period.
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hi Latin was abolished in high school here in california in the early 60's, declared a dead language, with no social importance. Yet, perscriptions and medical terms, legal terms, etc. are Latin. The movie "Tombstone" had a very tense scene between Doc Holiday and Johnny Reno, the two conversing back and forth in latin. Idea's are only dead to those who discard them.
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Hi I have a CD of Monk & Coltrane, I don't like at all, I bought it because someone informed me it was a landmark, must have performance, a real stepping stone . As I began to listen, I thought Oh No! I fell for the ol' emperors new cloths scam. Does this mean I don't like jazz? Paul Desmonds "Take Five" is an all time favorite of mine, the "purple Haze" of jazz, it just took someone with a vision to step out of the box in public and prove they wouldn't be burned as a Witch.
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jazz is a way of life.....you must live it.....
just going through the motions in a classroom environment is not enough...its' just the school making money..
you don't learn jazz just because it's cool..or you will be an intellectual after some years...
enough.....live it man....
time on the instrument,..pierre
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