Kreutzer studies for guitar

**MarkRhodes** · 12-14-2012, 06:08 PM

>>>>I saw a post by Vic Juris on the All About Jazz Forum recommending the Kreutzer Violin Studies as a way of improving your guitar technique. If it’s good enough for Vic Juris, I’m definitely using it. The Study seems like a pretty good resource for some guitar sight reading as well, although the primary purpose seems to be technical. It was adapted for the guitar by Allen Hanlon, and it is now out of print. Scott Abene of Guitarheads.org put the book on his website.<<<<<

Great Resource for Guitar Technique and Sight Reading | Learn Jazz Standards

Ooops, I think link FROM the above link to the download is dead. If you belong the jazz guitar group on Yahoo, this file is available there now. (That's where I got it. Oh, and it's meant to be free. Abene scanned his own copy to circulate because it is no longer in print; he studied with Alan Hanlon, who gave him those studies at his first lesson many years ago now.) It may be available elsewhere too.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-14-2012, 06:23 PM

My guitar teacher gave me that very book years ago. I had never played in an open hand position before and it really changed the way I play.

**jckoto3** · 12-14-2012, 07:19 PM

It took me a while but I finally memorized all the etudes in that book last spring. I agree with BDLH about the "open hand" position totally changing the way I play for the better. Also, etude 7, played as fingered in this book has done an absolute miracle to my ability to play nice contrary motion and other counterpoint lines. Excellent finger independence and string skipping study.

That book is fantastic. I play these etudes every day and probably will continue to play them for the rest of my life.

**MarkRhodes** · 12-14-2012, 07:35 PM

Wow! Happy to hear such ringing endorsements. This material is new to me. (I had heard of it but never seen a copy of it.) I just found it today, so I haven't started it yet. (My practice log for the week is full; I'll start with this on Sunday, the first day of each new practice week.)

**edh** · 12-14-2012, 08:12 PM

MarkRhodes, where did you find it?

thanks.

**pierre richard** · 12-14-2012, 08:39 PM

been using violin studies for years..pass them on to my students...

clarinet and flute studies also...

also use old time fiddle tunes from time to time...good speed builders...

time on the instrument..

**RyanM** · 12-15-2012, 12:22 AM

What do you guys mean by "open hand position"?

**va3ux** · 12-15-2012, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by RyanM

What do you guys mean by "open hand position"?

It is explained in the introductory part of the attached pdf (above).

**pierre richard** · 12-15-2012, 10:34 AM

thanks for sharing va3ux...

lots of good sharing on this site...

keeps us busy for a while...

time on the instrument...

**fumblefingers** · 12-15-2012, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by RyanM

What do you guys mean by "open hand position"?

It means stretch fingerings. At least that's what's described in the opening part of the book. (Not invented here folks.)

That is, you stretch the first finger back two frets from the second, while leaving the second, third and fourth fingers in position. (see 3NPS and Leavitt fingerings for the same concept).

I didn't see anything in the book regarding 4th finger stretches yet, which of course are common.

Guitarists have used finger stretches for centuries.

**jazzman1021** · 12-15-2012, 12:38 PM

I am going to look up the studies that are mentioned. Years ago my teacher recommended the Rubank Classical Studies for Clarinet, transcriptions from the Bach solo violin sonatas and partitas as well as a couple of works by Handel. I still play them to this day; great for broken chords scale passages skipping strings and pick dynamics. This was the same teacher that had me playing Charlie Parker and Diz heads instead of scales. Rubank also makes a pair of duet books For clarinet that can be very challenging.

JM

**JensL** · 12-15-2012, 01:00 PM

My teacher made me play some Kreutzer stuff years ago, they are indeed quite good practice and decent music. I have returned to them mostly for reading exercises over the years.

I never had a guitar version so I am going to check that out.

Jens

**jazzman1021** · 12-15-2012, 01:03 PM

Is the book in question the "42 Studies for Violin" ?

JM

**JensL** · 12-15-2012, 01:12 PM

Wow, what an interesting choice for picking pattern in no 5, that makes it really hard

Jens

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-15-2012, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by JensL

Wow, what an interesting choice for picking pattern in no 5, that makes it really hard

Jens

DUD DUD DUD DUD! That's how I learned to play triplets. Then I practiced strict DU -- DUD UDU DUD UDU and the trick there was to be able to accent the UP that starts a triplet. Third, economy (whatever stroke works). Then a twist on any of them is to play triplets in a jazz line and accent what makes sense in the jazz idiom -- off-beats here and there, or polyrhythm-type figures. Otherwise, strings of triplets tend to sound rink-y-dink pink-y-dink.

**JakeAcci** · 12-15-2012, 02:39 PM

I believe mel bay method advocates the same picking for triplets.

**JensL** · 12-15-2012, 02:46 PM

@Jake and BigDaddyLoveHandles,

I guess it makes sense from a phrasing point of view, I just always played everything with alternate picking and legato technique and never thought about it

I never read a book about right hand technique (or worked on it for that matter) until much much later.

I will for sure give it a go. Nice to learn something new! Right now it feels very weird. Great!

Jens

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-15-2012, 02:47 PM

If you think that feels weird, in the first etude he says to play it with all up-strokes (picking pattern #3)!

**JensL** · 12-15-2012, 02:57 PM

Yeah, oddly enough that does not strike me as strange, or difficult to play for that matter. I am having a much harder time playing DUD than UUUUUU..

I think the ones with lots of string skips and only downstrokes are more funny, but that probably just means I can learn something from it.

Jens

**MarkRhodes** · 12-15-2012, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

If you think that feels weird, in the first etude he says to play it with all up-strokes (picking pattern #3)!

I'm dreading that! But he also says don't do that until you've got the stuff down the other way. The purpose of doing it all with upstrokes is to strengthen the upstroke, which tends to be weaker than the downstroke.

Herb Ellis recommends then a video, though he isn't talking about Kruetzer etudes, just whatever you want to play to work on your picking: all down, all up, then alternating down and up.

**JakeAcci** · 12-15-2012, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by JensL

Yeah, oddly enough that does not strike me as strange, or difficult to play for that matter. I am having a much harder time playing DUD than UUUUUU..

I think the ones with lots of string skips and only downstrokes are more funny, but that probably just means I can learn something from it.

Jens

Oh, don't get me wrong, I've never tried to pick triplets that way. I was just saying it is part of another method too.

**JensL** · 12-15-2012, 03:18 PM

Ahh. I was just about to ask that...

Jens

**edh** · 12-15-2012, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

DUD DUD DUD DUD! That's how I learned to play triplets. Then I practiced strict DU -- DUD UDU DUD UDU and the trick there was to be able to accent the UP that starts a triplet. Third, economy (whatever stroke works). Then a twist on any of them is to play triplets in a jazz line and accent what makes sense in the jazz idiom -- off-beats here and there, or polyrhythm-type figures. Otherwise, strings of triplets tend to sound rink-y-dink pink-y-dink.

BDLH, so when you say to accent the up. Do you mean to also accent the U in a DUD pattern? Or is the accent only on the beginning and end of the UDU pattern?

I hope this is clear.

thanks

**edh** · 12-15-2012, 06:08 PM

@va3ux, thanks for the pdf.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 12-15-2012, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by edh

BDLH, so when you say to accent the up. Do you mean to also accent the U in a DUD pattern? Or is the accent only on the beginning and end of the UDU pattern?

I hope this is clear.

thanks

Just the first U in UDU. In other works, trying to get the normal, classical, triplet accents.