The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #126

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    I just started lesson 4 this week. I have a little bit of a beef with the last exercise which is the only two line exercise in the lesson and just happens to spill over to the next page. Oh, well. I should be scribing this all to a piece of notation paper anyway!

    A quick question: Does anyone have a breakdown of what song examples use the "Standard" lines that we are supposed to be subbing the "New" lines for?

    ~DB

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  3. #127

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    The truth is even though I made it through the whole book, I'm still going back and going over past lessons.

    There's a lot of stuff in there that makes much more sense once you've gone over it and applied it to actual playing.
    Last edited by Drumbler; 08-31-2010 at 10:03 AM.

  4. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny
    A quick question: Does anyone have a breakdown of what song examples use the "Standard" lines that we are supposed to be subbing the "New" lines for?

    ~DB
    You'll find those chord sequences in just about every jazz standard out there.

    2-5-1 is in every song:

    [Dm] - [G7 ] - [Cmajor] - [%] = [Dm7 - Dm6] - [Dm7 - G13] - [CM7 - Ebm7] - [Dm7 - G13]
    Last edited by Drumbler; 08-31-2010 at 10:14 AM.

  5. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny
    A quick question: Does anyone have a breakdown of what song examples use the "Standard" lines that we are supposed to be subbing the "New" lines for?

    ~DB
    lindydanny...
    You might like to look at the Vanilla Book, wonderfully put into 'web' format by Ralph Patt...

    Ralph Patt's Jazz Web Page

    ...which I find very useful for answering just that question. The Real Books have, for the most part, the subs already in place; the Vanilla Book shows only the base chords, it's up to you to sub as required.
    There is, on Ralph's site, a very useful index to 'Tonal Centres', which 'finds' in the tunes the particular shift interesting us, and shows where they are in the tune. For instance, for...
    I - IIm7 - IIIm7 - IIm7
    ... we find...
    Foggy Day, IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SPRING...
    ...for ...
    I - IIm7 - IIIm7 - bIIIdim
    ... we get ...
    I COVER THE WATERFRONT, STARS FELL ON ALABAMA
    ...and so on. The matching passages are high-lit in Yellow, putting the passage in context.
    Try it, it may help make more 'sense' when applying the MB substitutions.
    Hope this helps (and thanks awefully, Ralph Patt...)

  6. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dad3353
    lindydanny...
    You might like to look at the Vanilla Book, wonderfully put into 'web' format by Ralph Patt...

    Ralph Patt's Jazz Web Page
    Thanks for pointing that out. That's a great resource!

  7. #131

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    Yeah, thanks for the link to Vanilla Book.

    ~DB

  8. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernandinho
    Hi, I'm back to working on the M. Baker method again after a year or so of absence from the instrument. Half an hour a day more or less. Just as a hobby of course...

    Just started mixing it up with a bit of the "Music reading for guitar" every practice session, so when I reach the 2nd part of the book I'm not too lost with having to read charts.

    One of my main issues also is lack of repertoire, so I'm thinking of buying some book of standards. There is this "Swingin' Jazz Guitar" book by Alfred that looks promising -- it has all chord shapes spelled out, which should be good for a newbie like me. Later on I guess I can "graduate" to the Real Book.

    Really enjoying getting back into the Baker Method... it's like getting a brand new guitar.
    Do you have a link to the "Swingin' Jazz Guitar" book by Alfred? Is it: Amazon.com: Just for Fun: Swingin' Jazz Guitar (9780739064689): Alfred Publishing Staff: Books ?

  9. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papadoc
    @ Hernandinho:
    Get the Real Book. If you stick with the Mickey Baker book, you'll learn the chords that voice many of the tunes in the Real Book. Not that they go together, but you can make them go together in that way.
    Good point; I think I'll go through the songs in the easier book first; then I will go for the Real Book.

    Also there is the issue of the Real Book tunes being already re-harmonized. I'm sure figuring out the Vanilla chords for the tunes (either by myself or by comparing the Real and Vanilla books) will be yet another interesting challenge.

  10. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stylemaster
    Do you have a link to the "Swingin' Jazz Guitar" book by Alfred? Is it: Amazon.com: Just for Fun: Swingin' Jazz Guitar (9780739064689): Alfred Publishing Staff: Books ?
    Yes, I just ordered it the other day, thanks

  11. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisW
    Hello cats, when I learnt about the Mickey Baker's method, I ordered my copy straight away. Apparently you're supposed to learn a few things about substituting chords which shows when you go as far as lesson 3 I think it is. Anyway, when you check its first progression, Mickey substitutes his
    G | Gdim | Am D7

    with

    Gmaj7 Gmaj6 | B-7 Bb-7 | Am-7 D13b5b9

    But I don't really understand why you can sub your diminished I chord with B-7 and Bb-7 in this case.
    I haven't read through pages 3, 4 and 5 of this thread so I'm not sure if someone's already said what I'm about to say (I have seen Michael Joyce's reply though mine will be a little more direct).

    Basically, this is a classic iii for I substitution. The Gdim was just adding some sense of "movement" to the classic G | G | Am | D7 progression (i.e. I | I | ii | V). Check out the tune "It's Only a Paper Moon" - it uses the G | Gdim | Am | D7 progression too, and again I think the Gdim is just acting as a spiced-up version of G.

  12. #136

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    Well I just received Mickey's Book 1 along with Ted Greene's Modern Chord Progressions in the mail yesterday and read through the introductions to both (not much intro in Mickey's book though). My initial thought on Book 1 is that I surely will need to get plugged into the related web site that has been mentioned earlier in this thread. My thought on Ted's book is two fold: 1) "holy cow" look at all those chord diagrams...I know we eat an elephant one bite at a time but this is a heard and I only have a toothpick! 2) very disappointed when I read "the progressions in this book were geared to be played without a flat pick". Time for a refund. I have tried finger picking which is why I use a pick. Are there any chord progression books out there that are geared to flat picking?
    Thanks for the forum...I'll be asking questions I'm sure as I labor through.
    Tom

  13. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJLewis
    Well I just received Mickey's Book 1 along with Ted Greene's Modern Chord Progressions in the mail yesterday and read through the introductions to both (not much intro in Mickey's book though). My initial thought on Book 1 is that I surely will need to get plugged into the related web site that has been mentioned earlier in this thread. My thought on Ted's book is two fold: 1) "holy cow" look at all those chord diagrams...I know we eat an elephant one bite at a time but this is a heard and I only have a toothpick! 2) very disappointed when I read "the progressions in this book were geared to be played without a flat pick". Time for a refund. I have tried finger picking which is why I use a pick. Are there any chord progression books out there that are geared to flat picking?
    Thanks for the forum...I'll be asking questions I'm sure as I labor through.
    Tom
    Hi,

    I went through Mickey Baker's book decades ago. I especially like the moveability and voicings. I use it a lot on Bossa Nova and find it very easy to apply my own altered chords. I always liked the 1642 grip anyway. The web site using Telview is OK, but I find that the book itself was all I needed and already had before the site was started. Follow the book and you can't go wrong IMHO. Good Luck!

  14. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJLewis
    Well I just received Mickey's Book 1 along with Ted Greene's Modern Chord Progressions in the mail yesterday and read through the introductions to both (not much intro in Mickey's book though). My initial thought on Book 1 is that I surely will need to get plugged into the related web site that has been mentioned earlier in this thread. My thought on Ted's book is two fold: 1) "holy cow" look at all those chord diagrams...I know we eat an elephant one bite at a time but this is a heard and I only have a toothpick! 2) very disappointed when I read "the progressions in this book were geared to be played without a flat pick". Time for a refund. I have tried finger picking which is why I use a pick. Are there any chord progression books out there that are geared to flat picking?
    Thanks for the forum...I'll be asking questions I'm sure as I labor through.
    Tom
    I've had Mickey Baker's book for somewhere between 30-40 years and I still haven't gotten past lesson 2. I'm pathetic. I subscribe to this great thread and I still can't get it together to commit to this. However, I also bought another book a long time ago that I also saw mentioned on this thread that would be perfect for you (and me if I'd bother to open it). It's "Jazz Rhythm Guitar - A systematic Approach to Chord Progressions" by Roger Edison published by Alfred. I just did a search and found it's out of print but you can buy a used one on Amazon for $9.50.

    There's also a thread on here: Roger Edison Jazz Rhythm Guitar - Help

    Let me know what you think. Maybe it will help me get off my arse and do something.

  15. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauljoey
    Hi,

    I went through Mickey Baker's book decades ago. I especially like the moveability and voicings. I use it a lot on Bossa Nova and find it very easy to apply my own altered chords. I always liked the 1642 grip anyway. The web site using Telview is OK, but I find that the book itself was all I needed and already had before the site was started. Follow the book and you can't go wrong IMHO. Good Luck!
    Typo.....Should be 6432 grip...DUH!!!

  16. #140

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    TJ,

    As it has been stated before, take it one lesson a week. Obviously, you can probably get by with skipping to lesson two in MB's book for the first week, but keep putting your fingers around those chords on that sheet every week!!! Eventually, they will catch up with you.

    I'm up to lesson 6 and the chords used there for chord melody are killing me. I didn't keep my fingers around the chords in the first lesson throughout and now I am paying the price.

    ~DB

  17. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJLewis
    Well I just received Mickey's Book 1 along with Ted Greene's Modern Chord Progressions in the mail yesterday and read through the introductions to both (not much intro in Mickey's book though). My initial thought on Book 1 is that I surely will need to get plugged into the related web site that has been mentioned earlier in this thread. My thought on Ted's book is two fold: 1) "holy cow" look at all those chord diagrams...I know we eat an elephant one bite at a time but this is a heard and I only have a toothpick! 2) very disappointed when I read "the progressions in this book were geared to be played without a flat pick". Time for a refund. I have tried finger picking which is why I use a pick. Are there any chord progression books out there that are geared to flat picking?
    Thanks for the forum...I'll be asking questions I'm sure as I labor through.
    Tom
    A lot of Ted's chords can be played with a flat pick, or with a combination of pick and fingers (hybrid).

    The best advice anyone can give you for getting into Ted's stuff is this: click here!

  18. #142

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    Giving up on Ted's material would be doing yyourself a major disservice. Ted is one of the greatest teachers of all time, and if you stick with it you can learn the material in his books. Think about it this way, if you are able to pick up one thing, one new chord voicing, one new technique than your efforts are worth it! I have three of Ted's books (Chord Chemistry, Modern Chord Progressions, and Single Note Soloing Vol1) I know they seem like a lot (Because they are) but the work you put in there will be well worth it!!!

  19. #143

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    My suggestion with the Baker book is to have a few standards that you are familiar with the tune of and relate the lessons to the songs. I know he has those rote-learning things like "Gma7 Gma6 Am7 Am6, then Abma7 Abma6.......etc" A song like Out of Nowhere, or I'm Confessin', or Aint Misbehavin' will incorporate all those changes and can be played with the first half-page of chords.

    I just find that a more interesting way to learn. There are others which can produce a pretty good chord melody with even the most basic Mickey chrods: Darn that Dream, As Time goes By, Do nothin' till you hear from me. I'm beginning to see the Light.

  20. #144

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    Thanks guys for the helpful info and personal experiences. Wish I had seen Edison's book sooner...downloaded a handful of initial pages to go through. Thanks again...I'll be keeping up with the forum.
    Tom

  21. #145

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    I confirm two points.

    *the book Jazz Rhythm Guitar - A systematic Approach to Chord Progressions" by Roger Edison is a great book.

    *The lesson 6 is terrible .
    I can play the sequences, but I just can memorize them all.

    Personnally, I am stuck on the lesson 10, just because I don't practise enough with the method. I also have fun doing some improvisation with pentatonic scales with blues backtracks and my looper JM4.

    Blues is also Jazz after all !

  22. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by manu68
    I confirm two points.

    *the book Jazz Rhythm Guitar - A systematic Approach to Chord Progressions" by Roger Edison is a great book.

    !
    I'm downloading it and priniting it off as we speak. It would be great if it came with a cd to hear the progressions etc. I'm going on the search for Mickey's course now that I've got my credit card sorted out

  23. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by manu68
    *The lesson 6 is terrible .
    I concur. It doesn't help that I'm on hold with playing for house repairs and for a bluegrass jam weekend coming up!

    ~DB

  24. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny
    I concur. It doesn't help that I'm on hold with playing for house repairs and for a bluegrass jam weekend coming up!

    ~DB
    Worry not, lads-it becomes easy. You're just learning the chords, getting those shapes into your fingers,remember? When you go back over this in a few weeks time you'll say "Man-can't believe I strugggled with this". Keep at it.

  25. #149

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    That's how I feel about lesson two now!!!

    ~DB

  26. #150

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    New here...glad I found this place!

    Started on Mickey's book 1 a couple of months ago...I am going through the book all the way first (currently at Lesson 39) to get the idea and practice reading, and now I am going back and starting the 'homework' (I have the transpositions done for Lesson 5, and finishing Lesson 6)...but, I had a question:

    Everything makes sense in the book so far except, does anyone know why he would have us know the examples in Lesson 4 "by heart"? (I understand memorizing the melodic chord examples, chord substitution theory, and the runs and riffs in later Lessons, and sight reading the chords are not a problem)...just curious on this Lesson...

    By the way, I took private lessons from a teacher once, I asked him to teach me Jazz Harmony and he taught me a bunch of songs, but I never learned the harmony. This book is exactly what I wanted to learn--the chord subs, the run motifs--I am really happy with this find. Finally learning Jazz! (beyond just running modes over chords)...