The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #326

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    Started with the MB books about a month ago, on lesson 4.

    First of all - lurking here and on Michael Joyce's great site - thanks for all the help already!

    Coming from a more prog and straight rock background. Trying both to improve technique and open my ears beyond my current canon... Two questions:

    First - that last chromatic run down in Lesson 4 is the first thing in the book so far that's TOUGH at 120 bpm. Anything specific to help hit and anchor those changes (I know it will improve with practice, but there have been some great tips - "anchoring a finger", etc - here...)?

    Second - if you were to buy a few records to help broaden my exposure to jazz and jazz guitar while working through this course, what would they be? I have a few "shredder" type DiMeola or John McLaughlin records, but little else close to jazz in this vein.

    Thanks for the help!! (Back to lurking)

    -John

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #327

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    A few suggested listening

    Wes Montgomery Incredible Jazz Guitar
    Kenny Burrell Midnight Blue
    Herb Ellis Nothing But the Blues
    Joe Pass Virtuoso
    Barney Kessel, Poll Winners
    Tal Farlow, Swinging Guitar


  4. #328

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    Thanks for the tips - first 4 were available immediately through Amazon Prime, last two are on the way.

    Very much enjoying the Wes Montgomery and Kenny Burrell recommendations.
    Will spend time with all of them over the next few weeks.

    -John

  5. #329

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    hey john, what about lesson 4 is so much harder than lesson 3?

  6. #330

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    For me the only really difficult thing was what I described: the final run over the last 2 measures that (for the first time in the book) requires clean chord changes at a quarter note pace. Going from the Gma7 to the Dm6 is fine, but I'm still having trouble getting to the next Cma7 cleanly - everything after that is cake. the Xma7 chord is such a mainstay, and on quick changes like this I'm having trouble getting the 5th string to always ring cleanly.

    I know this will wear itself out with practice (and even from last week it's much cleaner today - can comfortably do it at about 105 bpm or so, but still clunky at 120). I just have to stop looking for all the quick cheating hacky technique that I've gotten by with to be sufficient and DO THE WORK.

    Listening to some of the guitarists (esp Montgomery and Pass) listed above has been inspiring, though...

  7. #331

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    You're right; there's no shortcuts, but there's also nothing wrong or cheating about looking for everything to make sure it's as easy as possible (like guide fingers etc). my only advice is isolate the difficult measures and keep up the good work!

  8. #332

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    By the way I wonder why that big shift from the G to D is easier than D to C for you. There is a guide finger in a way: the tip of your 3rd finger is "collapsed" with the tip right below the 4th string for the Dmin6, right? When I watched my hand switch to the Cmaj7 I noticed the 3rd finger just sort of naturally "unrolled" right into place the 4th string. In other words it never left contact with the strings. Just thought i'd throw that out there just incase it might help you or someone else

  9. #333

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    Greetings,

    I am new here.

    Was wondering if anyone could source the mp3 files that I thought were available at some time. I am interested in continuing my study with backing tracks rather than a metronome to help induce a true jazz feel.

    I, at one point, was sure they were available somewhere on the internet and the browsing I have done has yielded zero return.

    Any assistance would be appreciated.

    Thank you and all the best in your studies!

    Jason -.-

  10. #334

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    Quote Originally Posted by OMVOLT
    Thanks for the reply.

    Strictly interested in backing mp3 files so I may incorporate lessons with backing tracks on PC. I know they must be out there unless someone deleted them. They were available at one point.

    Thanks again.
    You can find a mixture of the backing tracks here - https://app.box.com/s/wzeagt2g3ubvo90dwnf75sdiyu0p3gfj

  11. #335

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    Hello all...this is my first post! I've been seduced by the beauty of jazz...I've played rock for many many years...jazz has become an obsession of mine for the past few years...
    So...I got Mickey Baker Jazz Guitar Vol 1...so far, so good. My fingers can play the chords, but what I want to know from others who have gone through or are working through the book...did you or do you write evetything down on music paper as suggested? Are you simply transposing by moving the chord shapes up and down the fretboard? Or do you actually take the time to write and spell the chords out on paper? I'm also just learning to read and write music, learn theory etc...do you transpose on paper, or simply move the shapes up and down on the fretboard?
    I'm loving the sounds of the chords...on Lesson 2 now...beautiful sounds...I've seen the online lessons and videos regarding this book, I'm sure it will all help...just curious about the transposing...

  12. #336

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    I took index cards and wrote one set of chords on one side and the corresponding set of chord substitutions on the other side.
    This for all keys.

    Then I went through the cards over and over, playing them on the guitar.

    In any event it's best to follow Baker's instructions.
    Last edited by Drumbler; 11-14-2016 at 08:19 AM.

  13. #337

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    Ha! I would probably do that...but, I'm such a chord theory newbie, I'm not quite sure what chord substitutions are...haha...haven't got that far in theory to comprehend substitutions...lots to learn...

  14. #338

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    I am so glad I found this thread, just ordered MB vol. 1 and can't wait to start! I am wondering though, is the improv part of it useful to gain some confidence in bop soloing over standards?

  15. #339

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    Not really. It will give you some basic things, but it's not as well written as the chordal part of the book. But it is still worth reading that section, as you will find some interesting things.

  16. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnoth
    I am so glad I found this thread, just ordered MB vol. 1 and can't wait to start! I am wondering though, is the improv part of it useful to gain some confidence in bop soloing over standards?
    Mickey takes an approach here that seems unusual now. (I don't know how it seemed to the first generation of players who used his book.)
    Take for example Mickey's use of "riff runs", or lines played "against" the chord. He never explains why these lines work. Or how. But he teaches you quite a few of them and as you play them over and over, you develop and ear and feel for them. You find ones you like a lot and play them over and over. (And some that you may not care for now may become more appealing to you in six months or a year.) Once you know how to move them around (from, say, Bb to G) you can use them in different tunes in different keys.

  17. #341

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    Joe implies Mickey Baker's Course needs an update:


  18. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbone
    Okay, week 3 is starting, and thanks to the supportive input of you guys I'm really looking forward to continue working on this great book. I've got to admit that without it this'd look much more intimidating, I think Mickey didn't write his lessons for the feeble minded. I wonder how long I will last... I wonder if somebody else reading this is working on this right now? Just let me know!

    Greetings,

    T.

    Baker is a very good foundation for the intro to jazz guitar..please heed his advise..I think there are 52 lessons..one a week..then he says start again at lesson one as if you never read the book...so in essence this is a two year course..

    I suggest..along with this study you learn some standard tunes that employ many of the chords and progressions in the book..and if you can find a guitar buddy who you can jam with and use the material in a real way..your progress will accelerate .. if you can record your playing the lessons it will help you chart your progress..

    don't give up on the hard lessons..push through..will worth the effort...

  19. #343

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    I've had this book a year or so, & worked through the first half twice (I think) I even did what I was told & wrote everything out in various different keys ...I pick it up occasionally & play some of his chord progressions but would really appreciate suggestions as to tunes that use them, might just start over & record my progress this time, the link to Michael Joyce's site looks the way to go...Later...

  20. #344
    There's a lot of confusion around this book, and I think it's worth understanding the basic purpose and context of it, in the time period in which it was published. Mickey Baker is basically about how to "jazz up" very vanilla changes. For those of us who ever tried to play a little before knowing what a real book even was, it was really helpful. Before the real book and similar books came out, you might play off of a basic piece of sheet music for a standard . Very often they had VERY basic harmony , without any of the 251 or 6251 type changes which you see in a real book.

    If you look at Mickey Baker, you'll notice that the "basic" changes underneath his embellished changes are indeed very VERY basic. With that in mind, it's not particularly helpful to try to apply Mickey Baker to a real book, because a real book is already "jazzed up" or embellished in its own Jazz style. Mickey Baker is the same thing in a slightly different style.

    If you want to get the most out of those Mickey Baker exercises, you might try working with some very vanilla changes which you can find from different sources online.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-02-2017 at 03:42 PM.

  21. #345
    If you've never worked through it, it's a good SUPPLEMENT for sure, as any book should be viewed. The most important things are playing tunes, playing with others, taking lessons however often you can afford, and listening to/transcribing the players you love. Books should largely be considered "bonus material".

  22. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by tbone
    Matt,

    thank you very much for your input. This makes sense, I agree with what you said. I guess, in the end it comes down to priorities on which supplemental studies you work as they're supposed to be means to an end. I realize that in the stage of skill development I'm in I should probably concentrate on building up strong fundamentals of rhythm and phrasing. Building up chord vocabulary etc. should buid up on that, and I'll certainly use MB's material for this purpose as planned, but I guess I shouldn't bother with a time schedule (e.g. follow the inherent 1-year-plan). I enjoy my participation in the Herb Ellis study group very much and I guess I should focus on this before anything else when it comes to studying supplemental lessons. I'll give this some further thought, Iguess.

    Greetings,

    T.
    Don't over think too much. (I'm no expert either.)

    Anyway, one method is comping (baker...at least to start), and the other (Ellis) is single note? You need some of both. A week per lesson is pretty doable with baker.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-05-2017 at 11:47 PM.

  23. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    There's a lot of confusion around this book, and I think it's worth understanding the basic purpose and context of it, in the time period in which it was published. Mickey Baker is basically about how to "jazz up" very vanilla changes. For those of us who ever tried to play a little before knowing what a real book even was, it was really helpful. Before the real book and similar books came out, you might play off of a basic piece of sheet music for a standard . Very often they had VERY basic harmony , without any of the 251 or 6251 type changes which you see in a real book.

    If you look at Mickey Baker, you'll notice that the "basic" changes underneath his embellished changes are indeed very VERY basic. With that in mind, it's not particularly helpful to try to apply Mickey Baker to a real book, because a real book is already "jazzed up" or embellished in its own Jazz style. Mickey Baker is the same thing in a slightly different style.

    If you want to get the most out of those Mickey Baker exercises, you might try working with some very vanilla changes which you can find from different sources online.
    That makes perfect sense (now you've pointed it out).
    I'll carry on with the 2nd half of the book & stop wondering what to do with the progressions in the first half, you can always use more ways to get round the changes...
    Thanks for the insight...
    Later.

  24. #348

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    A very beginner question, should I practice the book with swing/shuffle rhythm? Or just straight rhythm?

  25. #349

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    Both. Plus any other rhythm you can think of. Plus arpeggios. Plus vary the tempo. You are learning chords, and common chord sequences. They were used for fast songs, slow songs, medium songs, swing, straight, pop songs of the day.

    My Mickey Baker page might be of assistance to you: Mickey Baker – ArchtopGuitar.net - all free.

  26. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    There's a lot of confusion around this book, and I think it's worth understanding the basic purpose and context of it, in the time period in which it was published. Mickey Baker is basically about how to "jazz up" very vanilla changes. For those of us who ever tried to play a little before knowing what a real book even was, it was really helpful. Before the real book and similar books came out, you might play off of a basic piece of sheet music for a standard . Very often they had VERY basic harmony , without any of the 251 or 6251 type changes which you see in a real book.

    If you look at Mickey Baker, you'll notice that the "basic" changes underneath his embellished changes are indeed very VERY basic. With that in mind, it's not particularly helpful to try to apply Mickey Baker to a real book, because a real book is already "jazzed up" or embellished in its own Jazz style. Mickey Baker is the same thing in a slightly different style.

    If you want to get the most out of those Mickey Baker exercises, you might try working with some very vanilla changes which you can find from different sources online.
    Great post, by the way. Do you find that working with the Baker book could help a player learn changes (as in a classic recording of a song) by ear? Or is this better achieved through learning more fundamental principles? Baker is very rote, is what I’m getting at. But is this rote quality useful for the ear?


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