The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #151

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    Also, quick thanks to Michael Joyce: it was his website that lead me to the book and to this post forum. He really did some work at his site and it a great resource!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

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    Hi Stratluvsvm and welcome. I think he just wants you to know the basic stuff withou having to think about it. With Lesson 4 you should be able to play practically every 2nd song from the 1930s and 40s. Remember that Mickey wrote that book in the 50s and those songs were still the bread and butter of the working musician.

    When you start working out your own chord melodies, those basic changes will be extremely useful, although by then you may be using some more adventurous inversions.

  4. #153

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    @ Banksia: that makes sense, thanks, I wouldn't have thought of that on my own. Also helps me to fill in another puzzle piece about the history of jazz, of which I am interested. Thanks again.

  5. #154
    Hi to all,

    First of all, a million thanks for all the kind words and support. Since my first post on this forum, the amount of email I receive for the Mickey Baker Lessons has exploded. Actually, I feel a little guilty as the MB Lessons site is completely noncommercial (except for buying Mickey's book) and I really don't want to be in conflict with commercial sites.

    A little update:

    Please note, along with updating the original lessons, I've added three of the six proposed appendices:

    1. Intro to Arranging, including Mickey's standard riffs transposed for bass.
    2. Modern Comping (converting Mickey's chords to 3-note comping chords)
    3. Melody Chords (useful for comping behind bass/tenor instruments)

    Due to the overwhelming amount of requests, I have started work on putting Mickey's Vol. 2 into the course format. As the philosophy of that volume is so different from Vol. 1, it's been a bit difficult. So far I have 11 lessons completed. When all 24 are ready, I'll put them into Appendix 6. When I worked on Vol 1's lessons, I had 50 test students checking my work, looking for the "got-cha's". I don't have that luxury for Volume 2, so I'm counting on your patience, keen eyes and ears, and feedback for that help.

    Appendices 4 and 5 are in the "To Be Determined" category as I write. I'm pretty much set on Appendix 4 being on playing Latin tunes, and less common meters. If you'll remember, Mickey doesn't even on into 3/4 time in Vol. 1, so that along with 5/4 will be addressed.

    Appendix 5 is so far totally open. My #1 idea is an intro to going from pick style to fingerstyle, but that isn't cast in concrete and am totally open to suggestions.

    One additional update to the site that is under development, is a dedication of my notes to each of the original 52 lessons to pioneer jazz guitarists, many well known and also a good many not so well known by name, but known as part of a pioneering jazz group. Needless to say, the entire course's notes and appendices will be dedicated to Mickey.

    Once again, a million thanks for your support and encouragement.

    Best regards,
    Mike
    Last edited by Michael_Joyce; 12-10-2010 at 10:06 AM.

  6. #155

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    Lesson 23 has two to four bar chord sequences from various standard tunes.

    But what tunes?

    You can go to Ralph Patt's excellent site and find the tunes these sequences go to on his "tonal centers" page.

    The Tonal Centers Page
    Last edited by Drumbler; 12-14-2010 at 10:32 AM.

  7. #156

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    Just wanted to say that I've enjoyed reading this thread! Having recently started studying jazz guitar it helped me determine a good beginner method. I've just begun using this book almost exclusively (I picked up a real book as well). While I'm still working on the chords, I'm looking forward to contributing my own perspective on this method as it comes along. It seems like it's going to be a very solid entrance into jazz guitar.

  8. #157

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    Hi guys!

    I guess this is where I de-lurk and introduce myself as I seem to be on the Mickey Baker bandwagon.

    I first picked up a guitar just over 20 years ago and have been struggling with it ever since. I was always heavily into rock, metal and blues (still am) but have developed an appreciation for jazz in the last couple of years. Like many I suppose, I learned the barre and cowboy chords and a couple of blues scales, and thought that would be enough to make me a musician.

    I've come back to guitar after a few years break and want to learn to play it properly. I've just started with the Mickey Baker book 1 (just moved on to lesson 3), I have access to most of the Aebersold volumes and some real books. I'll be hooking up with a teacher in the new year at a local music academy and ideally I'd like to end up in a band.

    I look forward to interacting with you as I progress, and I have a question to start with. My musical theory is only around the first couple of ABRSM grades, but I can't for the life of me figure out why the D13b5b9 is so called. I see a G# on the low E and D# on the A but neither of these are obviously root notes. If this will become clear at some point in the future, then that's fine.

    Steve

    PS I read the explanation on the thumbpicker site, but it's still over my head at the moment!
    Last edited by BigSteve; 12-20-2010 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Clarification

  9. #158

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    Welcome, Big Steve. I had similar problems with the D13. It really is a D chord. It is just a different inversion and color than you are used to. I don't want to get too technical, but think of it as a D with a G# as the bass note and colored up so much that there was no room for the D anymore. Eventually, you'll get a Gmaj7 slid in there (later lesson) and it will make a bit more sense.

    ~DB

  10. #159

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    Better off to start thinking about it as an Ab as soon as possible and to recognize the flat 5 interval whenever you see it, because it's quite important (the tritone).

    On dominant chords (D7, D9, D13) you can always raise or sharp the 5. The 5 of D is A, so you can have Ab or A# and they can very easily be in the bass. In a band, the bass player will often play that note to help get a smooth line between chords.

    I'm not sure if Mickey ever delves into chord analysis in Vol 1 so just memorize the voicing using whatever trick works best for you.

  11. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSteve
    why the D13b5b9 is so called. I see a G# on the low E and D# on the A but neither of these are obviously root notes
    Good evening, BigSteve, and welcome to the forum...
    I'll explain what I can of this chord; be warned that I'm far from expert, but here's how I see it (and have played it for the past 40+ years...)...
    The 'root' can be found on the 4th string (open, it's a 'D'...), but wouldn't normally be played, as the chord would no longer be movable. If you had used the 'b' sign instead of '#', you could have noticed that the G# is Ab (that's the b5...), and the D# is Eb (that's the b9...). The 13 is the B on the first string. There is no 5 or 11. The root is not necessary for this chord, bassist or not, at least in the context used by MB. It functions as a D7, leading to G, in 'straight' chords. You can hear this by playing firstly...
    Amin, D7, GMaj (standard ii, V7, I...)
    ...then...
    Amin7, D13b5b9, GMaj7. (decorated ii, V7, I...).
    ...the resolution to G is more sophisticated, that's all. The bass string has a nice descending 'A, Ab, G' this way.
    If there are errors in this, then I'm happy to stand corrected.
    Hope this helps.

  12. #161

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    some would say its better to either call it a D7b5b9 or D13+11, b9

  13. #162

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    Keep in mind that it's impossible to play a full 13th type chord on guitar, since it would require 7 notes and you only have 6 strings. Notes must be excluded - the most common excluded notes are the root and the 5th. The D13b5b9 voicing in the Mickey Baker book excludes the root.

  14. #163

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    Wow, thanks for all the generous explanations folks!
    I kind of understand the reasoning but I expect it'll make more sense when I start to use it in practical applications.
    I have a lifetime (what's left of it) of learning ahead, so look out for more questions.

    Thanks again, I look forward to engaging with this community more soon!

    Steve

  15. #164

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    Steve,

    I'd also suggest at least reading the first two chapters of the book Swing & Big Band Guitar by Charlton Johnson. It is a rhythm book more than a jazz book, however it explains a ton on the how and why of three note and four note voicings. In particular, he goes into what voicings work best with what ensembles (duos, trios, orchestras, etc.). Well worth the money.

    ~DB
    Last edited by lindydanny; 12-21-2010 at 12:16 PM. Reason: added link for book

  16. #165

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    Just received my copy today. Looking forward to digging in!

  17. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny
    I'd also suggest at least reading the first two chapters of the book Swing & Big Band Guitar by Charlton Johnson.
    Looks interesting, thanks.
    I just ordered a copy.

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny
    Steve,

    I'd also suggest at least reading the first two chapters of the book Swing & Big Band Guitar by Charlton Johnson. It is a rhythm book more than a jazz book, however it explains a ton on the how and why of three note and four note voicings. In particular, he goes into what voicings work best with what ensembles (duos, trios, orchestras, etc.). Well worth the money.

    ~DB

    I just started with this one, but it seems to be a wonderful book for sorting out chords. A fine supplement to the Mickey Baker Method.

  19. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by lindydanny
    ...I'd also suggest at least reading the first two chapters of the book Swing & Big Band Guitar by Charlton Johnson....
    Amazon must be scratching their heads right now (why does everyone suddenly want this for Christmas..? ); my copy will be delivered in the next few days.
    (booming doom-laden tone: 'It had better be darned good, lindydanny, or... [fill here with preferred unpleasant inflictions...]' )

  20. #169

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    Started on Lesson 2 last night. Really dig his approach!

    I almost sounded like I was playing jazz by the time I got to the last example. Now that's sayin' something!

  21. #170

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    Little question for the Mickey Bakerites here.

    I'm at Lesson 17 where he wants you to use the techniques so far to comp on some standards. Lesson 16 has a nice little table of the best way to connect a dominant to any other chord, which I suppose is supposed to serve as a foundation.

    Most jazz standards are going to be loaded with ii-V's and there won't be many changes that are in that chart. In fact, there are precious few ii-V's listed at the top for any of the basic unembellished chord progressions in the book.

    So what are people doing to handle the ii-V's. Just pretty much play them straight using the chords that have been given?

    The problem is - if you only do that, you're not really practicing the system of substituting which he is pushing (which is mainly playing the minor a 5th up from the root of a dominant up).

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by peterk1
    Little question for the Mickey Bakerites here.

    In fact, there are precious few ii-V's listed at the top for any of the basic unembellished chord progressions in the book.
    "At the top" do you mean in Lesson 16? It's full of Dm/G7s
    So what are people doing to handle the ii-V's. Just pretty much play them straight using the chords that have been given?
    Do you mean the chords that are shown in L16?

    The problem is - if you only do that, you're not really practicing the system of substituting which he is pushing (which is mainly playing the minor a 5th up from the root of a dominant up).
    If he has 2 bars of G7, you could play Dm/G7 variations or you could play Em/A7/Dm/G7 or Tritone subs. Or you could use chromatic movement where it fits.
    Don't forget that, by today's standards, the book is a basic introduction. If Mickey covered everything for $8, why would Berklee exist?

  23. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banksia
    Don't forget that, by today's standards, the book is a basic introduction. If Mickey covered everything for $8, why would Berklee exist?
    In light of this, do you think it is still a good book for those of us new to the jazz game? I'm really enjoying the lessons so far so I am sure it is worthwhile for me but just curious to hear opinions on this.

  24. #173

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    It IS worthwhile.

  25. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
    In light of this, do you think it is still a good book for those of us new to the jazz game? I'm really enjoying the lessons so far so I am sure it is worthwhile for me but just curious to hear opinions on this.
    It is definitely worth working through because those chords and their applications are all still used today. Also, one of the hardest things for beginners is the feeling that you are not making any progress. With the first page of chords in the Mickey book you start sounding jazzy - you can pick up a standard like "Out of Nowhere" and you can sound like a jazz player.

    I think its worth learning older material, particularly for guitarists, because one of the best jazz lineups you hear these days is the guitar backing a singer, usually on old standards.

    I also believe that jazz isn't just a system of notes and chords. Jazz is a culture. It has history, legends, movements, reactions and low points. I believe that Rosenwinkel only exists because Charlie Christian existed, and Django and Lonnie Johnson. Half of the meaning of Parker comes from contrasting him against what came before - Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young.

  26. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
    In light of this, do you think it is still a good book for those of us new to the jazz game? I'm really enjoying the lessons so far so I am sure it is worthwhile for me but just curious to hear opinions on this.
    Good afternoon, Jazzpunk...
    Finish it first, then ask again...
    More seriously, there are many other books, methods, courses etc. (including teacher tuition...); there is no complete single way, imho. Any and all are good for learning something, and up to a certain point, the more the merrier. For my part, if I had to choose one (non-teacher...) method, it would be MB, but to each his own.
    (...but finish it first anyway...)