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Originally Posted by Michael_Joyce
Could I be so bold as to ask you to look again at this tef file, please? I may be wrong (and there may be some interpretation in this...), but imho you've 'corrected' the first bar where there is no mistake. In my printed version, bar 1 starts with a crotchet triplet, then a quaver triplet, then a crotchet. You've changed to two successive quaver triplets, then a minim. Was there a reason for changing this, please?
The following bar, where there is an original MB error, has been corrected oddly, too (still respectfully imho,of course...); personally I had corrected this by changing the semi-quavers for quavers, which gives the count required for the bar. I find it 'smoother' than your (technically correct...) version in which the last note is instead prolonged to a minim. Was there a reason for this choice, please?
Not wishing to criticise, of course, simply curious to learn the logic behind your choices. Many thanks again for your great work.
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03-15-2011 04:38 PM
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[QUOTE=Dad3353;130971 In my printed version, bar 1 starts with a crotchet triplet, then a quaver triplet, then a crotchet. You've changed to two successive quaver triplets, then a minim. Was there a reason for changing this, please?
The following bar, where there is an original MB error, has been corrected oddly, too (still respectfully imho,of course...); personally I had corrected this by changing the semi-quavers for quavers, which gives the count required for the bar. I find it 'smoother' than your (technically correct...) version in which the last note is instead prolonged to a minim. [/QUOTE]
Dad, I agree that the first measure was okay as it was. Playing that page today, I thought that the second measure is okay too in the sense Micky intended it: by keeping the sixteenths, you have *all* the main note values in one line. I think the exercise is intended to make you juggle lots of different rhythms in a single line. (Granted, he could've written it out "correctly" but he didn't and where's the harm? I was initially confused because I wasn't sure I was reading the *first* measure right. I got down a book to check the difference between quarter-note-triplets and eighth-note-triplets. Satisfied that I had indeed read them right, I took the suggestion of playing the 16ths in measure two as eights. That makes for four beats total, but there is an eight note pair in the following measure (-but no sixteenths), so I decided to play it as written and forget about the missing beat. It's a real good exercise in juggling rhythms.
My 2 cents.
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Hi guys,
I did indeed change measure 1 of Exercise 4 when the rhythm is correct. The triple quarters seem to be out of place with the rest of Lesson 24 that I assumed it must have been an error. I also agree with you that making the 16th notes in measure 2 of that exercise as 1/8th's is a better choice than making the final note a 1/2 note.
Give me a couple of days and I'll revise that TEF.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Mike
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Hi all,
Per the suggestions of Dad3353 and Markerhodes, Lesson 24 has been revised. The changes include making Lesson 24 "24(REV)" on the Lesson Page, editing the Notes to Lesson 24, editing Exercise 4 of that lesson and re-zipping everything.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards,
Mike
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Originally Posted by Michael_Joyce
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I've spent a lot of time in Mickey's book this past week. I mean away from the guitar stand. I took it to a park with some manuscript paper and transposed exercises to different keys for practice. As a reward, I looked ahead to see what was coming. I found another use of "course" for "chorus." (I'm NOT complaining about this. I wouldn't change it if I could. It's part of the book and I'm good with that, though I think that wasn't Mickey's miscue. But I also found a use of "revue" for "review" and wondered if that might not be Mickey's error, given that he probably played his share of "revue" shows. Again, I'm not complaining. It gives me a chuckle. I've had things published and found typos I missed while proofreading; it happens to the best of 'em, and me too.)
The only mistakes I care about are the ones that leave me unsure what to play (or how to play it.) I'm glad we had that great exchange about Lesson 24--we put our heads together and came up with a reasonable interpretation of the text. (Forgive me, but I spent time in a seminary: poring over texts is something I like to do, though they are now musical rather than biblical texts.)
That was perfect. That's what the forum is about for me--getting insights from others, putting in my own 2 cents when I can raise it.
But that said, I get a kick out of curious usage. And I also smile whenever I read Mickey's suggestion to play the chords and hum the lines over them---he wrote long before play-along recordings, much less BiaB. Heck, when he wrote, cassette recorders were probably pricey.
And in conclusion, long live Mickey!
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Hello Jazz Lovers,
I got the Mickey Baker book a couple of weeks ago. I've had the Arnie Berle book "Chords & Progressions for Jazz & Popular Guitar" for many years and have spent a lot of time with my head in that book. So, I have known many, but not all, of the original 26 chords. Getting going has been pretty quick and I've gotten through the first 10 lessons pretty easily. I got out some staff paper, lined up my measures, and wrote out the changes in lesson 5 in Ab, Bb and F as assigned. I'm now working on lesson 11 and I'm feeling pretty comfortable. I'm going to follow Mike Joyce's suggestion of writing out these exercises in the 'guitar friendly' keys as well. I've also been reading Michael Joyce's lessons on his website.
Michael - your lessons are a very helpful addition to the material that Mickey has written. It's clear that you love to teach this material and you love to play jazz guitar too.
Thank You for doing all of that work so that others may learn.
Jamie Peghiny
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Holy &*#%! Thanks for bumping this thread. I had no idea it existed. Just placed an order from Amazon.
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Can't believe I missed this thread for so long.
I made a number of videos of exercises in this book, which might be a help for some of you.
Mickey Baker Jazz Guitar Rob MacKillop ~ banjos, guitars, lutes and more
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Rob,
Yes, I've seen them and they're most helpful.
Jamie
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Hi Jamie et al:
A heartfelt thank you for the kind words. I'm sorry it's taken me so long to respond. I'd forgotten my password. This morning, on a lark, I decided to see if my older computer had the password in its memory. What a happy discovery!
Although I originally organized my Mickey Baker notes to help some folks in another forum wishing to learn a few more chords, I didn't receive much feedback until I posted on this forum. Since then, I've had many, many emails with thanks, questions, material to add to the site, corrections, and just to meet me as a fellow addict. Because Dirk has a commercial part to this forum, I've tried not to "rusty the strings" by keeping posts about my purely amateur efforts to a minimum.
This year in general and recently specifically, I have revised and updated some of the lessons. Upon finishing the posting of the original 52 lessons from Mickey's Volume 1, I decided to add 6 appendices. 1 (Arranging for a Small Group), 2 (Comping with three note chords), 3 (Melody chord comping), and 6 (all the lessons from Mickey's Volume 2), have been added and are available. 4 (Rhythms other than 4/4) and 5 (an archive of papers I've written on the guitar) are under construction, with 5 being released shortly.
I contacted Rob MacKillop some time back about adding links to his videos in the lessons. He graciously gave me permission to do so. I haven't started that yet, but it's on the "Mickey-Do" list. I want to thank him for the hard work and great effort he's put into his project.
Since my initial post on this forum, I've received quite a few questions about Mickey and the course. As of yesterday, one can find "Before You Begin....." with many of those same questions and my attempts to answer and explain them. If you're a regular to the website, you may have to refresh your browser and you can go to that page from a link on the Home page.
I've never tried to pass myself off as a expert, either of Mickey's courses or of Jazz guitar. But having the website has made me privy to hundreds of opinions. Because I'm not selling any course or book, I can be a lot more honest (tough love) about what I've received. The #1 opinion is that it's OK to "Cherry Pick". By that, I mean, scour the books and look for interesting lessons, rather than start with Lesson 1 and work until the end of the book. I don't wish to criticize, as we all have our personal agendas. But I can say that if your goal is to get as much from the course as possible and actually finish it, avoid cherry picking. A number of ambitious students have said "I'm doing the Part 1 (Accompanying) and Part 2 (Soloing) at the same time." This also, I believe, is counterproductive for the vast majority of students. Mickey is trying to "burn into memory" (an expression that certainly post dates 1955!) harmonic structures. If a student doesn't have these foundations, how can he be expected to create interesting solos? Well, I know I sure couldn't. If one reads posts like "there's lots of courses out there better than Mickey's", he can make a sure bet the writer is a Cherry Picker. Due to the 64 page limitation of Volume 1, Mickey infers and the student discovers from the layering of the lessons so much that will never be found by cherry picking. I stand by my opinion that Mickey's Volume 1 is the most powerful 64-page text book I have ever read on any subject.
My favorite lesson in his Volume 1 is Lesson 17. That's where he says to take this newly acquired harmonic knowledge and try to re-harmonize standards. To my way way of thinking, this is an exercise we guitarists will be doing until the ends of our playing days. I could, if not write a book, at least fill a large chapter on the excuses I've received for not doing this lesson as Mickey asks. None will be as tough as the first, and they get progressively easier after that. I had more fun creating this lesson's notes for the website than any other. And I still harmonize standards, if not daily, certainly weekly.
One last comment: my home is in Asunción, Paraguay. Due to government bureaucracy, I was having a devil of a time getting permission to create the site. Some friends in the Texas Fingerstyle Guitar Association, donated webspace for this course. Without their help, this site would not have been possible as early as it was. In the near future I have plans to move it to my own webspace. So from time to time, check in here to receive the notification.
Good luck to all no matter who or what they're studying.
Mike
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You got a hell of a resource at that site Mike. Thanks for putting it up. I plan on starting in Baker very soon and have you bookmarked when the time comes. Thanks again.
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Originally Posted by Will Glen
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Originally Posted by fep
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then there's volume 2.
But mikey has his own following, and I'm sure there's plenty to be learned from it. I just know I'm not up for it. Having tried.
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04-05-2012, 12:07 PM #216Nuff Said Guest
Mickey Baker's Wiki page is interesting:
Mickey Baker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nuff
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Originally Posted by Nuff Said
"At nineteen, Baker decided to make a change in his life. He went back to dishwashing, and was determined to become a jazz musician."
Very smart move - you can actually make a living at dishwashing.
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Originally Posted by fep
But, one could have a single thread, where people working at different stages, different starting points, different speeds, still post recordings, encourage and support each other. I belong to such a group here (Join the JOI jazz joint ! - Piano World Piano & Digital Piano Forums) and it works well. We're now about two years on from the start, over 2000 replies (75 pages) and going strong. If you're all singing from the same hymn-sheet, there will be cohesion, in this case, you have the same book to unite you.
Just a thought.
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I'd also be interested in a study group.
I have started going through the book (and the amazing website mentioned above, thanks again) several times now, but got discouraged every time, due to severe incompetence, LOL.
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Originally Posted by markerhodes
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Hello all - very happy to discover this thread, and am very interested in the study group. Peer pressure works!
I'm a guitarist with 19 years of playing, but not a lot of jazz. Have squeezed far too many solos out of standard blues pentatonics over the years so I'm going back to humble student mode for a while. I have my copy of Micky Baker 1 and am suitably depressed by the shapes of the chords to fit right in with the forum members here.
I have several guitars, but the jazz one is an Ibanez Artcore 105. In a few weeks my wife and I are travelling to the USA (Florida) for honeymoon and I'd like to pick up a Gibson ES137 (Custom) while there. If any members can recommend good shops in Miami / Orlando / Ft. Lauderdale that'd be great.
Look forward to developing my jazz skills alongside you all, and best of luck to everyone with their playing.
Joel (Argentina)
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Originally Posted by mellowshipslinky
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Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
I've posted on that thread as well, a couple of years back. I've been considering re-visiting the whole JoI thing (with piano, not necessarily guitar) in a month or so after I get out of school - one of the things I want to be able to do in a few years is to comp and improvise capably on the piano so I can sit in on jam sessions around town. Have you worked directly with Dave Frank, or are you just using the thread for your assistance? I've considered becoming a Skype student or Mr. Frank.
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Originally Posted by FatJeff
So the JOI 'method' assumes about grade 3 skills at piano and takes it from there. The book teaches the underlying skills for improvisation, but doesn't give any guidance in improvisation or comping themselves. For that I take guidance from the students ahead of me in the process, one of whom is a student of Dave's. So I basically get Dave's system for free. There is a step by step system and you can't miss or rush a step.
Happy to chat more, here or privately if you prefer.
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I did go through the first 3 or 4 lessons on guitar, and I liked it - but at the time I was taking private lessons through school and had to drop it, just from a time perspective. Maybe a fun thing for me to do would be to do the lessons on both guitar and piano at the same time!
I Have Musical Attention Deficit Disorder
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