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If you aim to become a pro, talk to m78w or Jake O'Hanlon. They are both Music Academics at the tertiary level and they could tell you which texts they use in teaching.
Coming from a rock background the easiest way to come in is via Kenny Burrell or the bluesier Herb Ellis albums. You can find a few tabs (with standard notation) for KB and Pass on 911tabs.com.
I think Mickey is too elementary for where you're aiming. Holdsworth and McLaughlin are a bit "too individual" for starting points. I'd suggest something more generic. The Jody Fisher books are highly recommended (I've never used them but I've seen him play and if he could teach me that, I'd be happy)
If you want something really deep, Bill Evans was a fan of the George Russell book "Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organisation" and there's my old fall-back "Fundamentals of Musical Composition" by Arnold Schoenberg.
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04-07-2009 12:03 AM
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Thanks for your replies Banksia. What I feel I really need is a little push in the right direction towards improvisation. I know that learning tunes is the best way, but when I do that I learn the melody and the chord progression as two seperate things and its hard for me to relate the two because the harmony in the chords are so overwhelming. Its such a different world from rock and blues because I'm used to everything being in the same key for long periods of time where it seems in jazz I just stumble all over the place and lose myself.
Last edited by silvatm; 04-07-2009 at 01:08 AM.
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When I first tried to play jazz I used to play along with some fairly simple songs like old Billie Holiday stuff and some bluesy Burrell stuff. I ignored the theory and just tried to solo according to my ear. I didn't care what key or chords they were playing. If the line sounds right, it IS right. You can always find theory later to explain what you're doing.
Another good exercise was playing along with albums that have no guitar on them. That way you have to write the guitar part. Two good ones for this are Kind of Blue by Miles and Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock. Both have long tracks which are merely tonal shells and the melodies are really just suggestions for soloing ideas. On the Herbie one you will hear him play over a chord pattern in four or five different modal approaches and they all work. Bitches Brew is a good album for this approach as well.
In jazz you are allowed to "stumble all over the place and lose yourself." The real crime in jazz is when you don't try to do anything adventurous.
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I have experienced a sort of religious conversion with this new book now. My new answer to all questions lies in two words: Garrison Fewell!!
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Hey, I'm new here and have been working with the Mickey Baker book and Michael Joyce's site. Very helpful in understanding the book.
Hope to talk again.
MJ
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Who is Garrison Fewell?
free wheels and a lot of those stuff
time on another instrument
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good for you
but what are you understanding?
any hints appreciated
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religious conversation?
explain to me a little bit more
Gods on the instrument
Sorry about me
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Originally Posted by franco6719
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Originally Posted by hubert54
Not a real "religious conversion". I was just using a common English figure of speech, of course.
Garrison Fewell is a jazz guitarist and educator who used to teach at Berklee at one time. I didn't run into him while I was there, unfortunately. He seems like an outstanding teacher. Anyway, he has written several books on "Jazz Improvisation" and he is one of the the few people who have written about the subject who actually gives many clear examples of lines and then explains exactly WHY and HOW those lines work, how to construct them yourself and so on. His approach is based heavily on arppegios and guide tones. This is what I have been trying to focus on lately and it was kind of "the right book at the right time" sort of experience. I also find it helpful in making clear things that I had already kind of arrived at by intuition or listening and playing.
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Originally Posted by fast eddy
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Originally Posted by silvatm
What is he teaching? Pretty much what you need to know if you want to play jazz guitar (not fusion) standards. He teaches chord substitution, improvising, intros, vamps, endings, licks, bridges, etc.
It's a great book but you have to put the effort into it. Invest a week per lesson, practicing around 2 hours a day. It will take you at least a year to go through the book. The first 6 months is chords.
If that seems like a lot of time remember you probably don't really know how to use them in jazz. that's the trick.
This isn't a book on how to play fusion (which IMO is NOT jazz) or chord melody. Go elsewhere for that. There are excellent chord melodies on this site.
Follow the book lesson by lesson. No shortcuts. I have many, many books and videos but Baker's book is a gem.Last edited by Drumbler; 04-12-2009 at 02:22 PM.
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ok, I've two books from Mickey Baker
But I don't know what he means with double time change or something like that. (a piece called "winterset")
Anyway, I agree it's a challenge
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Originally Posted by hubert54
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Mickey said :" The 2nd guitar plays chords in a quarter note rhythm up to the seventh system where it suddenly changes to an eighth note rhythm. The 1st guitar follows in the next measure creating the illusion
that the tempo has suddenly doubled...
This creates a nice "groove" and if you know how to do it, you can make a song really swing."
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Originally Posted by hubert54
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There is "double-time" and "double-time feel". They are two different things.
Double time means that the tempo is actually cut in half. For example, from 4/4 you go to 2/2. In double-time feel, you stay in the same meter, but you play everything twice as fast. For example, you are still in 4/4 but the rhythm section starts playing eight-notes as 16th notes and so on. But the soloist may still continue playing along as if nothing had changed in the accompaniment (still in 4/4).
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Hey hey, I'm taking my time going through this book as Baker suggests, but I'm a bit stuck on comping rhythms. Can anyone advise some variations aside from the standard charleston figure? Thanks.
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Originally Posted by DennisW
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Yeah I know swinging is the way to go, but I need some help on how to make these progressions a little more interesting. What I'm actually asking is, how would you guys play these exercises?
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Originally Posted by DennisW
I usually just hit the bass note with my pick (or thumb) and claw the top notes with my fingers, or pinch all the notes, or strum, or arpeggiate the notes too.
Baker says to be creative.
I do try to follow the lesson however as regards to note durations so I do them as the lesson instructs to a great extent.Last edited by Drumbler; 05-23-2009 at 05:42 PM.
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Well I'm not that far yet, so I'm talking about the earlier lessons which have pretty simple progressions.
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Hey Dennis, I am currently on lesson 11 and i find playing with a drum backing track or metronome is a must.
then you can do whatever you want with the chord rhythm- as long as you just come back on the one (for example)
playing them arpeggio style is also a must....start slow
and his string bass style is yet another must-
also slide into each chord..ie f#maj7 into gmaj7
just get a swinging drum track or band in the box thing and practice practice practice -
one last mickey baker tip - when he says to transpose exercises to other keys - do it- it might seem tedious at one point but it helps so much if you practice it
I love Baker book ...i do use other sources and have played for many years
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I finally survived the lesson 6
After that, the lesson 7 and 8 are "easy". It means that after 9 months, i can reach the lesson 9
It may be very bad, but I am a very bad player
When I look back, it is just impossible that I can play some chords of this book. They seems to me all difficult.
My family is crazy everytime I play these chords, but I wanted to be sure that I can play that (almost) fluently before going further.
To make a small break, I have decided to work the lesson of "there will never be an other you". It seems difficult to me also. After that, I will begin to work on the lesson 9
Fantastic method, very interesting, but very hard for me (no time to practise enough)
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Those fabulous Baker Boys!, Mickey for chords and David for bebop improv? (vols 1, 2 and 3).
You guys checked out the David Baker series? Now there's a series I'd love to hear as part of a software play along project!
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