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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauljoey View Post
    Jazzbug,
    I have the original Mickey Baker book ($1.95). I credit 90% of what I know to this book. The Elders and well learned on this forum call each chord a "GRIP", so mulriply every chord you learn by 12 and the spooky 26 chords will vanish quickly...Good Luck with Mickey
    Thanks for the kind words!

    I did not even remember that I started this thread until I came on tonight and was browisng through the forums. I can tell you that I never made it past lesson two after I first posted... but now I am back on track, put in my time today.

    One day at a time with this guitar....

    Happy to see the thread alive and well!
    Learn to live poor yet dedicated, forever.
    J. Bannon

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Take a tip. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

    The Baker Book 1 can take all your time. That book alone will take a couple years to get through. Many more to master.

    How can you possibly study three books at the same time?

    Answer: You can't.

    Would you take lessons from 3 different teachers at the same time? Nonsense.

    Baker says to practice 2 hours a day. If you have time or desire after that...

    As far as time management:

    Watching crap TV is a waste of your time. Get serious.

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stylemaster View Post
    I've had the Mickey Baker book since the 70's, misplaced it, bought a new one 3 years ago and still haven't been able to approach it. I have been playing rock, blues and country for 40 years and I guess I have a stigma about moving out of my comfort zone but maybe this thread will help me break through.
    Hello Stylemaster,

    I have a similar history. I bought my copy in 1977 and put that sucker off till 2007. I've been studying both Mickey Bakers Vol I up to Chapter 12 and Robert Conti's chord melodies for the last couple of years. I'm also located in Central New Jersey too. If you're intersted, PM me if you'd like to get together. I might be able to show you a couple of things I've learned to get you jumped started! It's really not that hard once you get the fingering down for those jazzy chords!

    Good Luck!
    Alex R.

    Guild: X-700, X-500, X-170, X-150
    Fender: Roadhouse Stratocaster (1997)
    Kay: K-11
    Epiphone: Joe Pass Emperor-II

  5. #104

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    Mickey baker is and remain my main guitar course. It is soooo great.
    I give it a try every day, even only 10 minutes.
    I can't afford to play two hours a day. At least not every day.

    I really think that it is necessary to take account of the other member of my family. For me Mickey baker sounds great, but not espacially for them every day !

    This is why I try to play also some other examples from other sources.
    It works for me, I am very happy with that.
    I understand a lot more theory behind the mickey baker exercices.

    And christmas is coming. I have to check my set list !!!

    It doesn't really care if It takes me 5 years instead of two to get through the Mickey baker's course. After all, I am young
    I am currently working on lesson 10. I have the feeling that it goes every day better. The beginning of the book is very hard , but it goes better after lesson 6 .
    All is not perfect, but I am already impressed of what I already achieved.
    I have great time improvising in all keys (big words in my case) with the sequences I have already learned in lessons 1-10
    Ibanez AF125 AMB is a nice guitar. I feel better everyday !

  6. #105

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    Bought vol.1 and vol. 2 in 1968. I was 16 at the time. Now I'm 57 and starting over with lesson 1 in vol. 1. How many books are out there that can take that long to get thru !!!!! LOL Now my Grandson and I studying them together.
    Dave

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_Joyce View Post
    Hi Jazz Bug et al;

    I have been hosting a website called the "Advanced Guitar Study Group" which is based on Mickey's Vol 1. I'm releasing a lesson a week and I have just released Lesson 43 "Rhythm Changes". My role is as a moderator and fellow student, letting Mickey do all the teaching. As I am a fingerstyle guitarist, I've added some insight to help other fingerstylists without affecting what Mickey wrote for the plectrum artists. I have put the entire course, including transpositions to all the orchestra keys, into the TablEdit format. All you have to do is download and play along. Where Mickey asks for student participation, I have given my attempts as examples. It's all free, BTW.

    Mickey Baker

    Best regards and good luck,
    Mike Joyce

    Mike,
    Just wanted to thank you for your site. I have been looking into the alternate fingerings for some of the chords and the site really helps. I'm not up to speed to play along yet, I'm really just beginning. This will be a great journey! The site is such a huge help when used with the book.

    Thank You!!
    Learn to live poor yet dedicated, forever.
    J. Bannon

  8. #107

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    I also have to thank Michael for the Baker web site- i am on lesson 33 and the site is a great help to go along with the book.
    Love the baker book, using multiple books but if you do EXACTLY as Baker says it works.

  9. #108

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    Since I offically began using the book this past week, one thing I noticed myself doing was calling the chords by the form numbers listed, instead of actually calling them by their proper names.

    I caught myself on it, and tonight I went through each one by chord names only, ignoring the 1-26.

    Just something to keep on your mind if you are just beginning.

    How about neck aches!

    I have to say, I started Saturday, and I already see real progress. Not in the sense that I could jump in with a band, but my fingering of the chords is a bit easier, and the changes are getting smoother. A bunch of these chords sound really sweet too!
    Learn to live poor yet dedicated, forever.
    J. Bannon

  10. #109

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    Just want to throw a question out there for those of you experienced with the Baker books.

    I read a bunch of posts where people say that most of what they learned about Jazz came directly from these books.

    My question is basically this, what did you learn when it comes to playing/using what you have practiced?

    Say I flip open the Real Book, when I am done with the Baker book will I have the ability to open to any tune and play a song? Examples, maybe All The Things You Are, or Autumn Leaves. These are both tunes I touched on during previous guitar lessons with teachers, but never made it to the point of playing them. I'm wondering if the book will give me this skill, without a teacher.

    I'm already feeling confident with what I am learning, the number of chords and so on, and I have refused to open the Real Book, because if I see the chords that I am practicing, I am going to want to play the tunes. I just don't want to lose my focus on the Baker book. Maybe I'm slowing my own progress though...

    Any thoughts, or experience is appreciated!

    Just a note, I am out of work. Once I find work I will be getting with a Jazz guitarist for lessons, one who plays live shows. I've taken the time out of work to find the right teacher, it is really important to find a guitarist who can teach, and who plays Jazz. My past teachers have been guitar players, but not Jazz guitarists, there is a huge difference.
    Learn to live poor yet dedicated, forever.
    J. Bannon

  11. #110

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    I just can speak about my experience.
    Mickey baker's book is a nice tool, but a lot of things are hide in the background. For a deep explanation, you will have to go on the website of Michael.

    What is great with this book, is that you can make exercises and it sounds from the begining like music.. It focuses not espacially on theory, but practise and practise. Even if you understand nothing , you can play something which sound like jazz guitar.

    The chords used are mainly subsitution from other chords. It doesn't matter.
    You can work on chord groups which work together, and playing them all the neck will make you for sure a better guitarist. You will not learn all the chords available, but a good basis to play a lot of things and have fun
    You will surprise you very quick improvising by combining theses chords.

    After that, playing by sightreading all the fake books is an other thing because you have to know and read all the subsitution on the fly.
    Easy for some of us here, very complicated for me.

    The learning frame is good if you like this style.

    If you want to learn "easier chords" (3 notes chords), learn how to ignore all the embellishement (b519, ....), and play quicker rhythm guitar with fake book or tabs in the freddie green style, I recommand you to give a try to this book "Swing and big band guitar, four-to-the-bar comping in the style of freddie green / by charlton johnson". It has all the exercises and backtracks on CD. I bought it recently and I like it a lot.

    Mickey baker book is like reading the bible
    Ibanez AF125 AMB is a nice guitar. I feel better everyday !

  12. #111

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    I'm a beginner that already had some music knowledge (took piano and violin as a kid and now trying guitar as an adult). It's easy to see how conquering the book can create a new level of playing, but I've found it frustrating not knowing the theory behind it all.

    I've been trying different practice approaches (learning all the patterns, degrees, modes etc) and books (Arnie Berle's have been particularly helpful after reading up on basic music theory as applied to guitar).

    Are there any other suggestions out there for what other approaches and books might best compliment Mickey Baker?

    For those also starting, I'm tracking my progress at www.masteringmickey.com so you can see what books and approaches I've found to have been of value so far.

  13. #112

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    ecohen

    Great website!
    About the AS73,I have the same guitar.Finally got the action set where there is no Buzzing.Replaced the neck pick up with a lollar Charlie Christian.Great sound for Jazz.However,I wouldn't do it if you are going to use the guitar for other styles also.
    cheers
    Anand.

  14. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anandbhat View Post
    ecohen

    Great website!
    About the AS73,I have the same guitar.Finally got the action set where there is no Buzzing.Replaced the neck pick up with a lollar Charlie Christian.Great sound for Jazz.However,I wouldn't do it if you are going to use the guitar for other styles also.
    cheers
    Anand.
    I am using it mainly for jazz and the small amount of blues that I know (a few pieces and messing around with the blues scale mostly). For anything else, there's a squire stratocaster in the house (low cost but tuneable and OK for practice).

    You're right - the buzzing is the only downside. I feed it through a Digitech RP155 which I use to get the right sound, and that helps. But I know better pickups make the difference.

    Did you just replace the one neck pickup or both? I'll probably make the investment soon enough.

  15. #114

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    Just the neck pick up.Had it done when I had the set up done.The Lollar Charlie Christian has really nice sustain and tone.I play it either through the polytone minibrute II or the Fender Blues Jr. Works well with both.I pretty much only use the neck pick up on the AS 73.

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anandbhat View Post
    Just the neck pick up.Had it done when I had the set up done.The Lollar Charlie Christian has really nice sustain and tone.I play it either through the polytone minibrute II or the Fender Blues Jr. Works well with both.I pretty much only use the neck pick up on the AS 73.
    I hadn't really thought about it but I also only use the neck pickup. The bridge is OK for blues and really better for rock (I play a little blues and almost no rock). I can't remember the last time I touched the switch.

    Thanks again for the suggestion.

  17. #116

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    This thread has inspired me to pull out the Mickey Baker I've had for years and work through it. The only book I ever managed to work most of the way through before is the Johnny Smith method, and that was over 30 years ago.
    I do have a couple questions, however. First, I'm in Lesson 4 and have no trouble playing the chords as written, but am curious if in later lessons there is an explanation of why certain chords sub for others instead of just showing them in contrast to the original. The second is a little different. Once upon a time, I ran across a file that listed the names of all the tunes Baker used the changes from. Unfortunately I can't find it anymore, probably was on a computer that died with no backup files. Anybody know of a file like this?
    Brad
    PS BTW, the Michael Joyce lesson guide is great, thank you Michael. It has led me to purchasing Tabledit. I've used the viewer from it for years, but because I have a couple other notation programs never got around to buying the full version. Now, with the great hints on its use I went and did it.

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4d8 View Post
    but am curious if in later lessons there is an explanation of why certain chords sub for others instead of just showing them in contrast to the original.
    See Lesson 12

  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler View Post
    See Lesson 12
    Thanks, It'll be about six weeks 'til I get there.
    Brad

  20. #119

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    I'm about a third of the way through William Leavitt's "Modern Method for Guitar vol. 3," and since progress is starting to plateau a little bit, I've thought about supplementing that book with something else. The one spoken of in this thread seems like a worthy candidate. My concern is, will Mickey Baker's book have any conflicting information? The thing about Leavitt's book is that it introduces what seems to be a pretty strict system, so I'm curious if I should finish that book and give myself a complete thought before moving on, or if it's just fine to begin broadening my horizons a little bit.

    Leavitt has done an amazing job of improving my knowledge of the fretboard and I feel like I have a pretty strong repertoire of chord forms. However, my improvisation skills seems limited, primarily due to my poor use of chromaticism and very little formal knowledge on how to form a good phrase. Does Mickey Baker have much to offer in that area? I feel like Leavitt gives you plenty of tools for soloing, but falls short in the area of how to apply those tools.

  21. #120

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    I made up some chord melodies using "Mickey Baker" chords.

    If you understand the concept of creating a chord melody (put the melody note on top), Baker's chords allow you to do it! He gives you enough chords to do it.

    You don't have to learn any more chords in most cases.

    Here's a link to my thread in the Chord Melody Forum:

    Chord melody with "Mickey Baker" chords
    Last edited by Drumbler; 12-22-2009 at 10:53 AM.

  22. #121

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    Okay, so a couple days ago I posted a question about how well this book fits into a practice regimen that includes William Leavitt's "Modern Method for Guitar." Well, I went ahead and ordered the book (it was cheap enough) and gave it a shot. Now I have a new concern. After going through two volumes of Leavitt's book, the first couple of pages of Baker's book seem completely trivial. I've had these same patterns hammered repeatedly into my brain over the passed year.

    However, I'm willing to temporarily abandon Leavitt's book (maybe go back and review the first two volumes of it every once in awhile) in order to get through Baker's book, which appears to be a more direct and pragmatic approach to jazz.

    My question, though, is how strongly is it recommended that I practice 2 hours per day and only move on to the next lesson after a week? Is that primarily directed at players that are almost brand new to the instrument, or is it recommended for anyone who picks the book up? I'm a terrible judge of my own ability, but that seems excessive and perhaps not the best use of my time. For example, 14 hours dedicated to playing a basic rhythm over 7 chords seems like quite a feat of mental discipline. Should I keep doing this despite the tedium? Should I keep practicing a lesson beyond the point that I feel that I've mastered it? I ask these questions in all seriousness, because mapping out my routine for the next year is a pretty big commitment.

    Thanks in advance.

  23. #122

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    In the early part of the book it is indeed possible to practice a particular lesson two hours a day.

    But once you progress farther into the book this becomes difficult as you need to review past lessons.

    I believe Baker meant to practice at least two hours a day in totality.

    Mickey Baker is still alive and lives in France. It would be nice if we could ask him about his book.

  24. #123

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    Hello to everybody, I would like to ask a couple of questions involving M. Baker's Jazz Guitar book and some other jazz related issues.

    Firstly I should probably say, that I am a guitar player for around a year in a half, but that time span really doesn't accurately describe my current level, because there were large breaks from the guitar and jus 5 months ago I went ahead and bought myself an electric guitar, ending my era of playing an accoustic one. My playing, until about a few months back, consisted of easy rock covers and some basic composing in the same matter. Then I got stunned by the simplistic beauty of Joe Pass' music and decided, that jazz is my calling.

    I should also mention, that I have been playing the piano for 11 years, then the doublebass for 3, then a little bass guitar and, finnally I ended up falling in love with the plain guitar, if I may say so.

    I have learned music theory for 12 years, but the fact is, I was learning it thinking I will never needed, and it was orientated to classical music, as well as my playing, as with both piano and doublebass I played only classical music.

    So, to wrap it up, I have almost no ability to improvise, but have good knowlege about how music works in general, as well as reading sheets or anything of that matter.

    So, finnally, after all of this, my questions are:

    1. I am through a couple of lessons in Baker's book, so far I am learning chords, to connect them etc., but I think I am lacking very much in understanding of jazz music. My father is sort of a jazz musician, so I obviously have heard a lot of it, but I do not understand it, I can only hear phrasings to a certain level, not to mention being able to understand, what king of movement is happening. I have Mark Levine's jazz theory book and am going through it, but I am finding difficulties memorising the information and, esspecially, applying anything to the guitar, or even the piano. this is mainly because I have learned all my music theory in Lithuania, so the English terms are a challenge for me. Are there any suggestions, how could I better translate the theory knowlege to the guitar?

    I am sorry for all the unnecessary information, but I didn't want to leave any of it out for a complete answer.

    Thank you very much in advance,

    Gediminas
    Last edited by Gediminas; 01-08-2010 at 07:05 PM.

  25. #124

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    Gediminas,

    Rather than try to answer your questions I will tell you to keep at it and work through each lesson one by one.

    All will be clear in time. Baker's book has been in use for 50+years. If it didn't have value it wouldn't still be around.

    Six months from now you will understand more.

    My one tip would be to learn about chord substitution. Search the web and read up on it.

  26. #125
    I've taught lessons for years but not jazz. After playing jazz off and on for about ten years, I've been thinking about what I would use to get someone else started playing.

    I keep coming back to the Baker book because of its simplicity and the fact that it quickly gets you playing something that sounds jazzy. For my own personal study, I've used the Levitt and Jody Fisher books but think that they're not really the place to start a beginner.

    Is there something comparable to Mickey Baker in terms of simplicity that other people have found for introducing simple jazz playing to beginners or even as a sampling to test a students interest.

  27. #126

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    I think Arnie Berle's books are a good approach (one on jazz chords and the other on scales and modes). They both start with basic theory and basic chords or scales, then work slowly to more advanced techniques. I'm self-teaching and have found them to be very practical and good compliments to the baker book (Baker makes me sound good, Berle let's me know what I'm doing so that I can build on what Baker teaches me).

  28. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    I've taught lessons for years but not jazz. After playing jazz off and on for about ten years, I've been thinking about what I would use to get someone else started playing.

    I keep coming back to the Baker book because of its simplicity and the fact that it quickly gets you playing something that sounds jazzy. For my own personal study, I've used the Levitt and Jody Fisher books but think that they're not really the place to start a beginner.

    Is there something comparable to Mickey Baker in terms of simplicity that other people have found for introducing simple jazz playing to beginners or even as a sampling to test a students interest.
    For beginners I think Baker's books are a great start, there from the period when jazz was being defined, at least on paper. They don't cover material in much depth, but at least they take the student on the journey with standard music notation and avoid the momentary gratification method which appears to often.The berklee books are great, but their beginner stuff is weak. Unfortunately teachers need to supplement material for all the methods I've been exposed to. Good luck, if you come across stuff,pass it on...Reg

  29. #128

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    Hi,

    I am too going through Mickey's book right now, and I have a question on the exercises that he presented in lessons 2,3 and 4.

    Is the student expected to memorize the new chords progression as applied to the old chords progression. What I mean by this is if anytime I see Gdim in the future I would have to substitute it for Bmin7 and D13b5b9 for D7 etc. If this is the intention of these exercises, or is it to build up the student's chords vocabulary.

    Why did I start learning Jazz so late in life????? Should have done this 30 years ago, may be I will not be asking such moronic question by now. Anyway thanks in advance.

    Tomo

  30. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oetomo View Post
    Hi,

    I am too going through Mickey's book right now, and I have a question on the exercises that he presented in lessons 2,3 and 4.

    Is the student expected to memorize the new chords progression as applied to the old chords progression. What I mean by this is if anytime I see Gdim in the future I would have to substitute it for Bmin7 and D13b5b9 for D7 etc. If this is the intention of these exercises, or is it to build up the student's chords vocabulary.

    Why did I start learning Jazz so late in life????? Should have done this 30 years ago, may be I will not be asking such moronic question by now. Anyway thanks in advance.

    Tomo
    Baker's lesson is to teach you chord substitution.

    For example, when you see a G7 in a bar you might play Dm7-G13.

    If you have a Real Book you will find after memorizing these subs that you can comp with these chord subs.

    A good way to memorize these is to write the original chord sequences (perhaps in 2-bar groups) on one side of a 3x5 index card and the sub chords on the other side. Then go through the cards several times every day.

  31. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oetomo View Post
    Hi,

    Is the student expected to memorize the new chords progression as applied to the old chords progression. What I mean by this is if anytime I see Gdim in the future I would have to substitute it for Bmin7 and D13b5b9 for D7 etc. If this is the intention of these exercises, or is it to build up the student's chords vocabulary.

    Why did I start learning Jazz so late in life????? Should have done this 30 years ago, may be I will not be asking such moronic question by now. Anyway thanks in advance.

    Tomo

    What Mickey is doing is enriching your chord vocabulary, you now have more choices for playing, you could play the original, or the substitution or both - depends on how many beats the chord is noted for, and there are even subs for the subs which opens up even more options or cans of worms.
    Don't feel alone in starting 30 years late - I wish someone would have impressed on me that the guitar is after all a musical instrument and one should learn something about music along the way, not just playing some tunes. Every day I become more amazed at how much I don't know and probably will never know in this lifetime - I have been playing now for over 45 years. Jazz is not for the faint of heart.

    tom

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by bifodus View Post
    My question, though, is how strongly is it recommended that I practice 2 hours per day and only move on to the next lesson after a week?
    That's a legitimate question. I'm in the same boat as you...I cannot possibly imagine myself doing a lesson from the book for two hours non-stop. In most cases I'm spending about 15 mins a day. Some lessons however, where he asks you to transpose the previous lesson to multiple keys definitely ask for more than that, especially if you're trying to transpose in your head. For those cases I'll dig in more, but it's not tedious just due to the sheer volume of stuff to do.

    And there's another element too which may make the two hours justified. He never gives the target tempo for exercises. I typically use 80 bpm as a light target...but you know, if you're expected to take them up to 160, then two hours a day for week is probably not even going to be close to enough at first. I often wonder how fast he would expect his students to take things.

    Still, great book. It's the only system I've seen so far that answers, right off the bat, the common question of how to make 2 bars of straight CMaj7 (or any common chord) sound intersting.
    Last edited by peterk1; 02-01-2010 at 01:08 PM.

  33. #132

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    peterk1,

    We all do the best we can with the time available to us. Have fun.

    You ultimately have to memorize these lessons. If you can memorize them in 15 minutes then that's all you need.

    Try to put things into use as soon as possible. For example, Lesson 6 has some intros, so when you play a jazz tune use an intro you like from the lesson to start things off.

    Use the chord sequences in your comping over a tune, etc.

    If you play Rhythm Changes use the vamps in the lesson 13 (when you get that far). The vamps are 8 bars and are rhythm changes progressions.
    Last edited by Drumbler; 02-01-2010 at 09:50 AM.

  34. #133

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    It's not really a question of time availability. I've been practicing about 3 hours a day for a few years. And Mickey is a small part of that that I do near the beginning. I'm up to lesson 9 now. I think I'm actually quite a bit past the intended level for that part of the book and I'm waiting for when things get much more challenging (the second half of the book will be perfect). But, even so, there's still some gems of knowledge hiding in those early lessons that make it definitely worthwhile for me.

    So, back to my original question....what target tempo is everyone using? I'm using 80 for the comping, but 120 might be a more reasonable choice - with a huge increase in time commitment.

  35. #134

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    It depends on the tune.

  36. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by nga_tom_s View Post
    What Mickey is doing is enriching your chord vocabulary, you now have more choices for playing, you could play the original, or the substitution or both - depends on how many beats the chord is noted for, and there are even subs for the subs which opens up even more options or cans of worms.
    Don't feel alone in starting 30 years late - I wish someone would have impressed on me that the guitar is after all a musical instrument and one should learn something about music along the way, not just playing some tunes. Every day I become more amazed at how much I don't know and probably will never know in this lifetime - I have been playing now for over 45 years. Jazz is not for the faint of heart.

    tom
    Thank you for your encouragement. I only wish I had started this earlier rather than squandered so much of my time on less purposeful pursuit. I guess the adage "youth is wasted on the young" ( I think it is something that effect), couldn't be more apt to describe what I feel right now.

  37. #136

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    I started reading this thread last year and then it got lost in the shuffle. I bought my first copy of this book when I started playing in my teens and bought another copy in middle age when the first went missing. I still have not gotten past Lesson 2. Stigmas abound. But I found this site and this thread again so maybe I can dig in and finally learn Mickey Baker's jazz guitar lessons this summer. I can't afford a teacher because I have an expensive daughter - those two things make it all the more daunting but maybe, as Charlie Parker once said/played, "Now's the Time."

  38. #137

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    I used these books way back in the '60s.
    I don't think they are difficult, but they are a very good short cut to the assimilation of a great deal of material.
    As far as being out of date ....BS .... If you listen to just about any jazz guitarist, theses devices are still being used a lot.
    The only caveat in my mind is that proper technique and positioning be used on some of the "upper partial" stuff because a beginner could develop tendinitis if not executed properly.
    This guy managed to pack a lot info into very few pages.

  39. #138

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    I just recieved the first Mickey Baker book from www.amazon.com . I heard all the talk here, and figured that for seven bucks, I might as well find out what all the fuss is about.
    I have been playing jazz guitar for a while, but I started as a blues and rock player. I find that even though this books is at a considerably more beginner level than where I am at right now, it is filling in a lot of holes in my playing. Perhaps I ran before I could walk?
    At any rate, I can definitely see why people continue to use this method. If I had this from the beginning when I started playing jazz, I would probably be much further along than I am today.

    As for the talk about improvisation... I know that as musicians we all want to be excellent soloists, but the fact of the matter is that the modern guitar player is going to spend most of this time playing a supporting role. I think that in order to make a guitar player "gig ready" you should spend far more time on chord voicings and learning standards than trying to play a bunch of fast angular lines.

    These are just my opinions for what they are worth.

  40. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffstritt View Post

    As for the talk about improvisation... I know that as musicians we all want to be excellent soloists, but the fact of the matter is that the modern guitar player is going to spend most of this time playing a supporting role. I think that in order to make a guitar player "gig ready" you should spend far more time on chord voicings and learning standards than trying to play a bunch of fast angular lines.

    These are just my opinions for what they are worth.
    Indeed.

    While Mickey Baker's book does delve into improvisation quite a bit in the 2nd half of the book, the first half is invaluable for comping and chords.

  41. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz Bug View Post
    Page two lists the chords, Page three is where the chord exercises begin.

    I know it may say lesson two, but just fingering chords is not going to help me learn them any quicker, so I'm incorporating lessons 1 & 2, for the first three chords right now.


    Just a note for other beginners.

    You will be much better off knowing the note names on the neck when you begin using the book. I have some prior knowledge so I'm ok with the book, but if this was my first buy, I may be feeling lost already.
    Hey Jazz Bug... When you practice the chords changes from Maj7 to Maj6 , and mi7 to mi6 keep your pinky anchored to the fretboard. This move will pay dividends in the future when moving from one position to the next.

  42. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by manu68 View Post
    I just can speak about my experience.
    Mickey baker's book is a nice tool, but a lot of things are hide in the background. For a deep explanation, you will have to go on the website of Michael.

    What is great with this book, is that you can make exercises and it sounds from the begining like music.. It focuses not espacially on theory, but practise and practise. Even if you understand nothing , you can play something which sound like jazz guitar.

    The chords used are mainly subsitution from other chords. It doesn't matter.
    You can work on chord groups which work together, and playing them all the neck will make you for sure a better guitarist. You will not learn all the chords available, but a good basis to play a lot of things and have fun
    You will surprise you very quick improvising by combining theses chords.

    After that, playing by sightreading all the fake books is an other thing because you have to know and read all the subsitution on the fly.
    Easy for some of us here, very complicated for me.

    The learning frame is good if you like this style.

    If you want to learn "easier chords" (3 notes chords), learn how to ignore all the embellishement (b519, ....), and play quicker rhythm guitar with fake book or tabs in the freddie green style, I recommand you to give a try to this book "Swing and big band guitar, four-to-the-bar comping in the style of freddie green / by charlton johnson". It has all the exercises and backtracks on CD. I bought it recently and I like it a lot.

    Mickey baker book is like reading the bible

    it has a lot of useful material but like many similarly named books is the very furthest thing from being "complete".

  43. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by wouldrichest View Post
    Hey Jazz Bug... When you practice the chords changes from Maj7 to Maj6 , and mi7 to mi6 keep your pinky anchored to the fretboard. This move will pay dividends in the future when moving from one position to the next.
    I'm wondering how you'd do that? The mi7 to mi6 progression (chords 4 and 5 on lesson 1) doesn't use the pinky (just finger's 1,2 and 3). For the Maj7 to Maj6-It feels completely unnatural to anchor your pinky on 3rd string, 4 th fret-using Mickey's fingerings.

    Attachment 1728

  44. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by billkath View Post
    I'm wondering how you'd do that? The mi7 to mi6 progression (chords 4 and 5 on lesson 1) doesn't use the pinky (just finger's 1,2 and 3). For the Maj7 to Maj6-It feels completely unnatural to anchor your pinky on 3rd string, 4 th fret-using Mickey's fingerings.

    Attachment 1728
    Regarding the minor chords, he must mean chords 18 and 19.
    Last edited by Drumbler; 07-14-2010 at 06:28 AM.

  45. #144

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    Yep-he must. I should have noticed that. Out of interest- if you were doing relatively fast changes between forms 2+3 (say, lesson 2)- do you actually finger thar G6 chord as Mickey does? I tend to barre with the first finger across the second fret so that If I can't get my finger down on that 3rd string, 4th fret quick enough I'm left with a nice chord there anywhere-I think it's a G6/9? It'll sound like I'm hammering on from G6/9 to G6.

  46. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by billkath View Post
    For the Maj7 to Maj6-It feels completely unnatural to anchor your pinky on 3rd string, 4 th fret-using Mickey's fingerings.
    It does feel awkward at first, but with practice it becomes more comfortable and I've found that it really does improve my speed and accuracy making that change. The hardest part for me is getting the ring finger onto the second string in the Maj6 while keeping the pinky in place, but I found that rotating my wrist slightly back and to the left made it work better.

  47. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by billkath View Post
    Yep-he must. I should have noticed that. Out of interest- if you were doing relatively fast changes between forms 2+3 (say, lesson 2)- do you actually finger thar G6 chord as Mickey does?
    Yes.

  48. #147

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    Thanks, Guys-guess I'll spend a few hours practicing just that change to get me out of my bad pop habits!!!

  49. #148

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    The Maj7 to Maj6 change is a "bread and butter" change that you must get down. No shortcuts. There are much tougher changes than this. Personally, I don't anchor my pinky but I'm comfortable doing it.

  50. #149

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    Good evening, all...
    Some are luckier than others...
    Like 'StyleMaster', I bought Vol. I at 16, in 1966, with my first pay, along with my first guitar (a Russian-made steel-strung 'classical' guitar, neck was a telegraph pole, neck joint was a single horizontal bolt...), on a whim. I spent months trying out these chords on this impossible instrument. I've had several guitars since (only as an amateur; I played drums for a living when I moved to France in '77, but no-one would pay to hear what I do with a guitar...). I've looked at quite a few books and methods (including Marcel Dadi, which is excellent for a novice, being very clear and complete...), but am now on my third (or fourth..?) copy of Mickey's books, I and II. I'll be 60 in a few days time (no, really, no cards or presents, just cheques..:-), and thank my lucky stars to have, by pure accident at the time, stumbled upon such a loded goldmine. Whoever has these books has for a life-time (or more...); even if one cannot sustain the effort in one sitting (a year or two...), it will still be there later to come back to, or revise.
    There are other methods (and even other styles of playing, or so I'm told..:-), but these are by far, IMHO, the best value for money of any.
    As a complement I recommend Mark Levine - The Jazz Theory Book, which covers a lot of ground (general music, not especially guitar...) which makes sense.
    My current guitars: blond Hofner Committee (the old lady...), a Samick 335 copy, DaisyRock Retro-H 12-string (no it's not jazz, but what the h***...) and a brilliant Xavière Thinline tele look-alike.
    I don't play any particular style, just a kind of cross-culture 'mash-up' following wherever my fingers take me. In fact, I maintain that I play exactly the same as the 'greats', that is: I throw my fingers at the strings (I've seen them do it..!). It's just that they are a bit luckier than I am, that's all.
    Whatever; it's thanks to Mickey for the excellent and perennial method that allows me to modestly enjoy my guitars.
    The site is excellent, Michael, I've started once again from the beginning with your help, and find even more than with the book alone. Many thanks, and congratulations on the enormous achievement.
    Long life to (Sir...) Mickey Baker, eternal thanks...
    Last edited by Dad3353; 08-12-2010 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Redundance
    Have a nice day

    Dad3353 (Douglas...)

  51. #150

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    "In fact, I maintain that I play exactly the same as the 'greats', that is: I throw my fingers at the strings (I've seen them do it..!). It's just that they are a bit luckier than I am, that's all."

    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! You are a certain kind of genius obviously!