The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Manu 68 - is that really the price of a gretsch -470 us dollars? I saw it on the Freddie Green site you mentioned under pictures of his guitars. The way it reads, it sounds like you can get one made to order for that price! If that is 2009 prices I'll have one for sure! what do you think or have I missed something and we're talking about prices from way back!

    cheers

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    I have no idea about this price.
    Perhaps could you ask these men ?

    http://www.freddiegreen.org/contrib.html

  4. #28

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    Hello Jazz Enthusiasts,

    This will serve as an introduction and a comment on Mickey Baker's Jazz Books.

    I bought Mickey Baker's Jazz Guitar Books (1 &2) around 1978. It was pretty much what was available at the time. 29 years later, (mostly strumming, wana-be rock blues guitarist in the interim) I decided to take my guitar playing seriously. I decided to re-learn with Mel Bay's Complete Method for Modern Guitar (to build a strong foundation in notation - I just started grade 3). And simultaneously, I have been studying Mickey Baker's Book one. I have gotten as far as lesson 9. I must admit, the chords were definitely a challenge, but after practicing diligently, I have gained proficiency in the chords through lesson 6. I practice both plectrum and finger technique.

    It is true, in my humble opinion, that one needs to practice as much as posssible to gain proficiency. I try to study/ practice at least 2 hours per day, every day (real life issues taking precendece at times).

    Where this will take me is up to me. I would like to gain a better understanding of music theory and perhaps one day play Jazz guitar like I hear on the radio (Jazz 88, Newark, NJ, WKCR, 89.9 NY and WRTI Philadelphia).

    Regards,

  5. #29

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    I am currently dealing with lessons 6 , and playing regularly lessons 3 to 5.

    I have to admit that I don't clearly understand how can a normal human being play fluently the chords of the lesson 6 .
    Really, it is currently a mystery for me .

    It does'nt matter. I know that it will be sooner or later possible
    It was the same feeling for every lessons until now.

  6. #30

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    do not give up...use your tenacity to forge ahead...remember in two days time tomorrow will be yesterday..

    Ibanez 2355 (es-175)...is my axe...

    Bill Leavetts' books from Berklee are also good...

    time on the instrument....pierre

  7. #31

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    Today I got my first book of Mickey Baker - and started at once with the first lesson. Here in germany the books of Mickey Baker are nearly unknown. At least I haven't heard anything of the books before.

    Some of the voicings in lesson 1 are "unusual" (I thought I know many different voicings ) but beautiful. Thanks to Michael! Your website helps a lot!

  8. #32

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    The Mickey Baker lessons all build one upon the other.

    Don't skip any.

    Just methodically grind through them. It will all come together.

    Spend an hour to two hours a day for a week on each lesson. Think of it as taking lessons from a professional teacher.

    You get 52 lessons for under $10. Amazing value.

    However, I can guarantee most people will quit after a few weeks.
    Last edited by Drumbler; 02-19-2009 at 12:08 PM.

  9. #33

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    Hello everybody

    Good news from lesson 6.
    I have been practising it , and I can play pretty well the first four intros and the previous lessons.
    The Gma7, chord form 7 , remains a mystery for my little fingers, but it doesn't matter. I don't play the 6th string

    Just to be sure. How are you playing the A11 and octave chords ?

    Otherwise, it sounds really to me as what I expected from jazz guitar.
    It really open the field of possible combination with what I have already learnt.

    I keep on going slowly, but surely
    Once again, Thanks michael for your wonderful website. It is really full of precious informations.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by manu68
    Hello everybody

    Good news from lesson 6.
    I have been practising it , and I can play pretty well the first four intros and the previous lessons.
    The Gma7, chord form 7 , remains a mystery for my little fingers, but it doesn't matter. I don't play the 6th string
    I broke my pinky finger many years ago and as a result it bends inward.

    Because of this I use one of the alternate fingerings for the #7 chord.

    This one (Gmaj7):

    ----7-------------------
    ----7---------------------
    ----7-------------------
    ----x---------------------
    ----5---------------------
    ----3---------------------

    Index - Low E
    Middle - A
    Pinky - GBE

  11. #35
    Hi guys,

    Some great comments and I'm really happy that you're able to use the files to help.

    RE: Mickey's Form 7. Yes, this is a handful! Drumbler's substitute is actually more pleasing to musical theorists than Mickey's Form 7. The reason is that theory says if you're going to double a note, try to avoid doubling a color note. That is, double a root or a fifth, but avoid doubling 3rds, 6ths, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths. Drumbler's Major 7 form doubles the 5th (in the example, a G Maj7, the D note). Mickey's form 7 doubles the 3rd (the B note in a G Maj7). I'm certain that the reason Mickey chose this form is it moves so sweetly from a 13b5b9 (form 6). You keep the pinkie planted on the two strings while you move 1 fret closer to the nut with the other fingers. It's a little harder to do using Drumbler's Form, but please don't take that as a criticism. If you just can't get Mickey's fingering, just don't play the 6th string and play the other notes with your 1st and 2nd fingers. Also, don't use that as an excuse to quit trying! One day it'll come to you and it'll be as if you've done it all your life.

    RE: the octave form. I use the 1st and 3rd fingers for it when it's on the 6th and 4th or 5th and 3rd strings. When it's on the 4th and 2nd or 3rd and 1st, use your 1st and 4th fingers. Either of these fingerings allow you to dampen the string in between. That's not so important if you're picking it with your fingers, but using your pick (or in the case of Wes Montgomery, a bare thumb), you have to brush down to get the notes.

    I hope this helps and remember they're just suggestions and I hope you find something that works for you.

    Best regards and hopes for the continued progress reports.

    Mike

  12. #36

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    I am currently trying to learn how to record myself.

    I post here a small recording of me playing the lesson 3, part 1.
    Very unpretentious. Everybody has to begin with something. The lesson three is for beginners, and I am one of them
    It is basically just the progression of chords.

    SoundClick artist: manu68 - page with MP3 music downloads

    I will try to record myself along the method, and put my records on my page, I think it is very useful for me. It puts some pressure on me. Lesson is made when the record is good

  13. #37

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    Smooth changes. Keep it up. You have excellent tone.

  14. #38

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    Manu 68

    sounds good man! As Banksia said - good tone and smooth changes. Keep moving forward and good luck

    cheers

  15. #39

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    Hi All,

    I'm also working my way through the Mickey Baker book and have visited your site Mike. I'm currently working on lessons 2-4. I can play everything, just not fast/perfect enough to move onto the next new lesson (6). I know 5 is just a transcription of lesson 4 which should be fairly easy to do. Already getting some nice sounding changes and looking forward to more.

    I like the alternate fingering for the Form 7 chord as I have both a midget pinky which is also bent in. I have been trying the original chord every once and a while when my fingers are loosened up but not quite tired I can get close...I think I might get it someday.

    Other than the Form 7 finger buster, the only other chord I'm having a hard time with is the 12. I can't seem to both get the B string to ring clear (due to the ring finger on the G string) without lifting the back of the middle finger bar off the high E. It seems like my middle finger needs to learn to bend backwards a little more than it currently is able to. If I tilt the hand down to play the high E the ring finger deadens the B string, if I tilt my hand up, the high E doesn't sound. Any tips on fingering this chord or do I just keep plugging away? This chord form appears to be used quite a bit after lesson 5...

    Thanks in advance...

  16. #40
    Hi Sundeep,

    Glad to hear that you're enjoying Mickey's course and making progress.

    RE: Form 12. Form 12 (for those reading that might not have Mickey's book) is a Major 6/Minor 7 for for the 1st 4 strings. I have to admit when I was first taught that chord in 1971, using Mickey's fingering I had a devil of a time with it, until one day it clicked. The reason that fingering is useful is because that frees the pinkie to grab the note two frets higher on the 1st string, which will be called a Form 30 "11" chord in Lesson 14. If you just can't get it whatsoever by barring with your 2nd finger, try fingering it with your 1st finger in the 4th string, 2nd finger on the 2nd string, 3rd finger on the 1st string, and 4th finger on the 3rd string. That alternative fingering is useful in some chord progressions so you'll probably learn it anyway. But Mickey's fingering has some advantages that are well worth the effort.

    Good luck on progressing with it.

    Best regards,
    Mike

  17. #41

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    Hello cats, when I learnt about the Mickey Baker's method, I ordered my copy straight away. Apparently you're supposed to learn a few things about substituting chords which shows when you go as far as lesson 3 I think it is. Anyway, when you check its first progression, Mickey substitutes his
    G | Gdim | Am D7

    with

    Gmaj7 Gmaj6 | B-7 Bb-7 | Am-7 D13b5b9

    But I don't really understand why you can sub your diminished I chord with B-7 and Bb-7 in this case.

  18. #42

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    I did a quick video to try to explain this point. I don't know how helpful it is. I also forgot to mention that, once you sub the Bm7 for your Gmaj then the Bbm7 can also be seen as a passing tone to Am7


  19. #43
    Hi Dennis,

    That was an interesting question. First of all, I think you meant to say in measures it was B min7 - Bb min7 rather than B7 - Bb7.

    If you have the opportunity, you might want to go to a website where I've put all of Mickey's lessons into a computerized music notation program called TablEdit. This not only lets you print it out, but listen to a MIDI playback on the computer. In these lessons I've added some notes I've made when I went through the course, plus a little additional material to reinforce these ideas. That website is at < Mickey Baker >

    Read the notes I wrote in Lesson 4. What Mickey is substituting is not a B min7 for a G dim (7) chord (that is, a chord for a chord), but rather a more active "turn around" for a less active turn around. The formal name for a turn around is "Cadence", and just means a short phrase like I - V - I, or I - IV - iv - I. But I seem to hear "turn around" much more commonly used, especially among the musicians I know. Many tunes of say 32 measures are built from 2 measure turn arounds. The theory of substituting turn arounds is to start roughly at the same place, in your example, G or tonic harmony and end on V or V7 harmony (D7), and make the transition interesting. In that particular sequence, there are 4 measures that are basically I - V harmony or a I - V turnaround. It turns around because the next measure returns to I harmony. They both start and stop on the same harmony. And, they sound OK together because one part is going up (G - G dim - A min - D7) and the other part is coming down B min7 - Bb min7 - A min7 etc. J. S. Bach spent his lifetime just doing that: one line going up against another going down (well, in an extemely simplified example.)

    Note that using TablEdit to listen to Lesson 3, I made the parts in stereo: The standard will be coming out of one speaker, and the New will becoming out of the other. This way you can hear not only the difference but how the Old and New sound played together. That's not so easy to do if you're alone in your living room going through the course. You can make up your own mind as to whether the substitute turn around sounds good both stand alone and played against the standard turn around.

    Also, there are times you might decide to use a simple or the standard turn around instead of a more active one.

    In writing this I've tried to avoid using words like "better". You'll keep adding turn arounds to your bag of tricks to give more variety to your music. To me that's what Jazz is all about: variety.

    I hope this helps. It's just my opinions. With 7 billion of us on this planet, there's a lot of opinions and this is just mine!

    Good luck and enjoy Mickey's course. It's a jewel.

    Best regards,
    Mike

  20. #44

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    The way I think of this is: B-7 is a sub for GMaj7 and the Bb-7 keeps a nice bass movement as a parallel passing chord. This is often used by guitarists to provide a more interesting voicing movement of the chords. Your ear will tell you if the chords sound good.

    wiz

  21. #45
    rodan Guest
    I'm currently using Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar - Book 1 that belong to my Dad.I think he bought in the sisties for it's kinda falling apart.I probably should go out and buy both books new , for the price and what you get out of them.I'm still on lesson 2.

    Rodan

  22. #46

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    is the book available on amazon?

  23. #47
    rodan Guest

  24. #48

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    Hey everybody! I am new to the forum. I have a couple of jazz books, both by Jody Fisher, great books, but was wondering, does Mickey cover improvisation in any of the two books? I was also wondering since I am not a COMPLETE beginner (know how to bulid chords, can read music, know the theory, but can't make jazzy improvs to save my life) but a beginner nonetheless in the world of jazz, should I pick up this guitar method. Any suggestions?

  25. #49

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    Welcome to the site silvatm! Many people would consider Mickey's improvisational approach fairly dated and limited.(of course this all depends on what you want to play) There must be 100 method books out there, so the first questions are:
    - What standard are you at now? Name a couple of songs that you can play comfortably - any genre.
    - Which jazz players do you like? There are method books by Pass, Metheny, Holdsworth, McLaughlin etc.
    - What's your goal? If you want to be a pro, then definitely you need something deeper than Mickey Baker (no disrespect to MB. I started on MB and I'm forever grateful) If you just want to play some nice tunes tunes at home then perhaps the Barry Galbraith Chord Melodies might be a good book, since you already have the basics.

    If you give us some info, we can target suggestions better.

  26. #50

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    To be honest I am not much of a song learner (most songs I learned back in the day I forget) and most of the songs I know are from the rock idiom (zeppelin, pink floyd, rush, porcupine tree etc). I do know night in tunisia. I like all jazz players but some that have stuck out to me are Wes, Pat Metheny, Kenny Burrell, Allan Holdsworth, John McLaughlin, Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, John Pizzarelli, paul chambers, bill evans, oscar peterson, lyle mays, jaco and the list goes on. My Goal is to become the absolute best player I can be, looking towards being a pro.
    Last edited by silvatm; 04-06-2009 at 12:36 PM.