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This is a great Jazz Course. I have been working on the first group of chords in Book 1. I an already enjoying some nice progressings and working them in with scales and doing some improv's. I wasn't getting anywhere with jazz until I started this course. My problem is remembering the root and shapes on the keyboard. This course sure beats a couple of CD guitar courses I bought. I am a violin player and can hear the chord changes I need and am now having fun practicing. I have had books 1 and 2 for many years and did not realize how good they are. About two years ago I decided to learn to play jazz guitar after putting the idea away for many years. I guess I'm nuts to try this as I just hit 90. However my fingers are still nimble and the chording is doing ok so far. I would be happy to exchange thoughts about using this course, if you are interested. Good luck. I hope you are enjoying your playing as much as I am.
Originally Posted by Jazz Bug
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10-07-2012 12:08 AM
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Ok, so I finally bought Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz. Ill begin from page 1 so I hope to get feedback from you guys (I know you're proberbly way ahead).
Im excited!
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Good afternoon, Jazz Classic (or may I call you Jazz..?)... Originally Posted by Jazz Classic
This was my first guitar method 45 years ago; I still use it a lot, most especially the first few pages. From those initial chords, and with a bit of imagination, one can do a hell of a lot (modestly, in my case..!) already.
I'd love to compare notes with you over the next 45 years or so, although, as I'm slow (you guessed that, perhaps..?), you are most likely to surpass me quite soon. I 'chickened out' when getting to the 'meat' of the course, where reading from a staff becomes required, purely by my own indolence, as there is nothing intrinsically difficult to read if one takes one's time.
Good luck with the adventure; there's more than a lifetime of knowledge in that one book alone, at least for amateur 'players' such as myself. I'm looking forward to retirement soon; with some luck I'll make time to get towards the end of the book soon..!
Good afternoon, chancho... Originally Posted by chancho
See above; some are speedier than others..! Take your time, do exactly what MB indicates, and you'll be fine. I'll be asking you for tips soon, I expect..! Keep us posted as to your progress, and ask away if you need to...
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Hi all.
am just wondering how to proceed..
i can play the changes well but it's been only two days since i started the lessons and am wondering what i am suppose to take from them.
should i get to a point were if i see the standard chords i will automatically be able to play his suggested new chords?
show i just understand that i can play a minor7 on the 5th of a dominant chord etc..?
any tips on when is it ok to move on to the next lessons..
thanks!
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Don't know if I should have started a new thread for this question but: page 2 in Mickey Baker's book the 6th chord is named D13b5b9 is that correct? if so, damn! that's a stretch on the fingers, no?
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Good evening, chancho... Originally Posted by chancho
Yes, it is correct; the question has come up many times, although it can, apparently, be analysed in other ways. The key that 'unlocks' it is when one realises (or is informed...) that it's a 'rootless' chord, there being no 'D' in there. It's a variant of D7 in this context, which will lead us to the G chord (GMaj7...) in the next pages.
As for the stretch: you're right, of course; it's a stretch for a while, but one gets used to it. Don't over-do it, or hurt yourself at first. One 'trick' to try would be to not play from the 'D' position at first, but rather further up the neck. Try it from the 12th fret (that would be a 'B', I think...), and work down the neck progressively. Stop descending when it becomes too much of a stretch. Rinse and repeat, day after day, and it will become easier to get to the 'D' (or even down to 'C'; why not..?).
In the 'real' world (or at least, in mine..!), one doesn't have to religiously make each note ring out clearly. I find that, most of the time, having the top 3 strings and the 6th well in place suffices to get the effect. That's how I use it, anyway, when I'm in 'cheat' mode (but then again, I'm not a good, clean, player...
).
Hope this helps.
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Chancho, it is correct, as Douglas said. Lets break it down:
This is a D7 x5x57x
This is a D13 x5x577
This is D13b5 x56577
Now put that b5 on the sixth string, an octave lower
45x577
Now we add the b9 - which is like adding a b2 (as the b7 is already there from the original D7 chord)
46x577
Which is the famous or infamous Mickey Baker Chord :-)
In other words, we can spell it this way from the bass upwards:
b5 b9 (4th string muted) b7 major3rd 6th
By the way, note that it has a 6th and a 7th. Now add 6+7, and what do you get? 13. So, it's a 13th chord in which the 5th and 9th have been flattened. The root is absent because we have run out of fingers (the more balletic among us might try playing the root as that 4th string open...)
Anyway, it's a great chord to place between Am7 and Gmaj7, with a chromatically descending bass line - A Ab G.
Hope that made some kind of sense?
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I have a general question.
I would like to try playing the chord exercises in more than one tempo. What would a good tempo setting be for slow, medium and fast?
Also what does MB mean with Bounce?
Thanks
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Such sound advice. I think if I ever become a guitar teacher, I'll assign exercises to be played as SLOW as possible. Not everything and not always, but starting slow and getting things right is the best way to get really good. I think it was Troy Stetina who said, "If you make a mistake, you're playing too fast." Originally Posted by Dad3353
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Good evening, Frank...
Looking at previous posts here from you, may I suggest that, if you're finding it difficult to finger the chords, that speed should be, in any case, rather more 'slow' than 'fast'..? I never use a metronome, myself (yes, I'm a drummer..! Originally Posted by frankmaurer
), and would be hard put to give you bpm tempos to work to. I would, however, recommend that you choose your tempos (tempi..?) yourself. Whatever you're already considering as 'slow', take 20 bpm less as being 'slow'. Then add 10 bpm to the original speed, and consider that as 'fast'.
The idea, certainly in the early stages, is not to play fast at all. The slower you do your practicing, the quicker you will become 'fast'. I realise, of course, that 'all work and no play makes MB a dull boy', so you may break out now and again into recreation mode, and try any speed you like, but this is really only for relieving frustration..! Don't look for speed, and it will come. Trust me, I'm a drummer..!
It often helps to think in triplets, or 12/8, to get the feel. Listening to swing music should give you the idea, in general. Originally Posted by frankmaurer
Hope this helps (but not really sure of that...)
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[quote=Dad3353;265605]Good evening, chancho...
Yes, it is correct; the question has come up many times, although it can, apparently, be analysed in other ways. The key that 'unlocks' it is when one realises (or is informed...) that it's a 'rootless' chord, there being no 'D' in there. It's a variant of D7 in this context, which will lead us to the G chord (GMaj7...) in the next pages.
As for the stretch: you're right, of course; it's a stretch for a while, but one gets used to it. Don't over-do it, or hurt yourself at first. One 'trick' to try would be to not play from the 'D' position at first, but rather further up the neck. Try it from the 12th fret (that would be a 'B', I think...), and work down the neck progressively. Stop descending when it becomes too much of a stretch. Rinse and repeat, day after day, and it will become easier to get to the 'D' (or even down to 'C'; why not..?).
In the 'real' world (or at least, in mine..!), one doesn't have to religiously make each note ring out clearly. I find that, most of the time, having the top 3 strings and the 6th well in place suffices to get the effect. That's how I use it, anyway, when I'm in 'cheat' mode (but then again, I'm not a good, clean, player...).
Hope this helps.
Yes, I agree. This is good advice. But I do like the sound of these and hope to be able to make the stretch and play some of them.
Jazz Classic ( the guy with the old fingers)
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I don't really worry about the tempo. What helps me more is trying to work in some single string riffs or ideas using the 2-5-1 chords with the addition of a couple of transition or resolving chords from the page 2 list. This is more fun than just playing the chords only. I also try different rhythms and cadence. I'm just a violin player trying to learn a little jazz guitar and I am still a beginner. I believe I will be encouraged to practice more now that I have a decent guitar (Ebanez AM-93) to practice on. My old Squire Strat has some really painful frets! MB is short for "Mickey Baker". I believe that bounce is a jazz term for playing with an up cadence or peppy rhythm. Hopefully someone can help us out on that one. I hope this helps you. Happy practicing! Originally Posted by frankmaurer
Last edited by Jazz Classic; 10-31-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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Good evening, Evan... Originally Posted by Evan
Try this for size..?
...from a master, and appropriate for the MB chords in G...
Hope this helps...
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...This has a decent 'bounce' feel, too, imho, just to illustrate what 'bounce' sounds like...
...I shouldn't get too hung up on words, though. 'Bounce', 'swing', 'feeling', 'groove'... whatever. Think 'tumpty tumpty tum', like the drummer, and you'll be OK...
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This was my first buy, at 16 (first pay packet..!). I'm now past 62, and still lost..! Originally Posted by Samu66el
(...but then again, I'm slow...)
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Thanks for posting that! I love Herb's playing. I hadn't seen / heard this. Originally Posted by Dad3353
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Good evening, maarud, and apologies for not responding to your query... Originally Posted by maarud
If, indeed, you can now play all the chords from lessons 1 & 2, and have assimilated the chord substitutions in 3 & 4, then you can safely move on. By 'assimilated', however, I don't just mean having grasped the principles of "...a minor7 on the 5th of a dominant chord etc...", but can actually play them as written in the lessons, with some fair proficiency, in all the keys suggested. If this is the case, then by all means turn the pages.
The only warning I should offer would be to not rush through the book, whatever your level of playing. If you do exactly as MB proposes, to a decent level (no stumbling, regular tempo, honest musical interpretation...), then you'll advance. More slowly than you would like, perhaps, but faster than any other method (unless, of course, you can already play, in which case you don't need a book..! )
I hope this is clear enough; please get back if there's any doubt lingering.
Typically, I would say that at least a week, doing a good hour or more each day, may be a reasonable starting point for this book, subject, naturally, to a good deal of variance. More would not be wasteful; less could be rushing things a bit. I find myself still going back to these first pages and doing them again, over 40 years later (but then again, I'm slow..! ).
Hope this helps...
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Hi guys! After years of playing I'm trying to get better and nail down the jazz stuff. I found a good local teacher who immediately got me started on Mickey Baker's book, as well as Modern Method for Guitary, V. 1. So, I got on youtube and found a Mr. Fep posting, which led here! I already follow and sometimes participate in the Practical Standards group, but this thread and the Modern Method thread are awesome since I'm using these two books.
First point. It's great knowing there's others out there who can play (well, in my case kinda-sorta
) who are going back to basics to really nail this stuff down.
Second, this thread is over 4 years old, and a bunch of us seem to be right at the start of the Mickey Baker book. My thought is should we start a new thread? Or just keep this one going, now on page 11 or so. If we start over, we can break it down systematically like the Modern method did/does.
Larry (No, Tachee was not some great jazz player I like. She was my fabulous dog for 12 years).
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thanks!
so the point of the lesson - other than being able to play the chords, is to be able to use the subs - so that it will become natural and easy to use them over simple chord changes?
should i stick to this lesson until i reach this point?
it could take a while - i don't mind! i want to get it right this time..
(this is like my third go at learning jazz on the guitar.. been playing on and mostly off for 20 years..)
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Well, in my opinion, the point of all music lessons is to play tunes, and hopefully, compose them. Central to this is the development of the most important musical instrument of all - your ear! Pick a couple of tunes, try out as many combinations of the chord subs as you like and listen - which ones sound good to you? What change sounds right for one song but not so appropriate for another? Which subs are "melodic?" which ones are "bluesy?" which ones are more "out?", more adventurous?
The other advantage of the Baker chords is that many chord melodies can be developed using those basic 20 chords. Use your different inversions and substitutes to find the melodies of songs - again, Out of Nowhere or As Time goes by are 2 easy ones.
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If you can play lessons one through four smoothly then it's time to put those chord movements to work. Start learning your favorite Great American Songbook standards. When you see a plain, vanilla major, minor or dominant chord use MB's voice-leading. The point of the exercises is to learn to make harmonic sequences interesting by using moving voices rather than playing a static chord. Originally Posted by maarud
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WOW - Thanks everyone.
helpful suggestions.
makes sense.
:-)
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So on page 2...first line, G, Gma7, Gma6.
back and forth back and forth
back and forth back and forth
pull out the metronome, set to 70, back and forth back and forth
take a sip of coffee back and forth
back and forth back and forth
was that was how it was like for you?
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The first 40 years was the worst, after which things got (slightly...) better... Originally Posted by chancho
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LOL! Thanks for the "encouragement".....
Just came back from my Master's studio (think I wanna increase our sessions to weekly, hmmm
Anyway, today's lesson? progression: D-7, G7, Cma7, A7
Possibility 1.
I can play Cmaj scale on any chord but be careful playing over the A7
2. I can play either Cmaj or Gmaj pentatonic remembering that i can play our friendly pentatonics over any major scale
In detail he wanted me to play D-dorian, G mixolydian, C Ionion and A mixolydian
Then he intruced me to arpeggios (is that the right spelling?) to play over the progression
All this in an hour's class, aint he kool?
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