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  1. #1

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    We're making good progress. We'll start the next thread when we finish this section, maybe 2 weeks - plus or minus.

    Remember to review.

    Cheers

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Critique

    2nd exercise my strings sound muted

    last exercise, my rhythm sounds a bit awkward on the big string skips


  4. #3

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    Sounds good to me Frank, and very accurate. The dotted study took me, literally, months.

    Here are the initial scales, arps and chords:
    https://www.box.com/s/fd481af527c324f27d17

    Mistakes there for all to hear. In the scale exercise I find s6 m1 especially tricky. Also I can't do the finger rolling thing (fingers just won't spread between strings) so my legato is off sometimes.

    I recorded the duet twice with Larry on the DVD:
    https://www.box.com/s/a91bc4ba94608d25e33c
    https://www.box.com/s/043cdeb127d3cd344484

    Self critique: the legato and chord changes could be a lot smoother. I was mostly working on using confident rest strokes for the chords. I keep fluffing that bit at the end (g2, top of the second page), but I just couldn't be bothered trying to record again, only to miss it again. I get it by itself, but after going through the whole tune, I invariably miss it. Such is life.

    The chords on page 83 - this is where I miss the others, as I know they would be interested in the chord substitutions, which we've finally got to.

    NB - where he introduces the dom 13 and says the 4th string must not sound - that's wrong. It must sound for the dominant, not for the major 6th. I'm sure you know this Frank, but it took me a while to work out and I'll say it here for the benefit of anyone who follows this.

    Frank, how do you see the diminished chords here? So far, I've got that the F#dim is basically a rootless D7b9. He uses diminished chords a lot and I'm determined to try to understand them as we go along. If you have any perspective on this, sing, because I'm not hot on diminisheds.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
    Sounds good to me Frank, and very accurate. The dotted study took me, literally, months.

    Here are the initial scales, arps and chords:
    https://www.box.com/s/fd481af527c324f27d17

    Mistakes there for all to hear. In the scale exercise I find s6 m1 especially tricky. Also I can't do the finger rolling thing (fingers just won't spread between strings) so my legato is off sometimes.

    I recorded the duet twice with Larry on the DVD:
    https://www.box.com/s/a91bc4ba94608d25e33c
    https://www.box.com/s/043cdeb127d3cd344484

    Self critique: the legato and chord changes could be a lot smoother. I was mostly working on using confident rest strokes for the chords. I keep fluffing that bit at the end (g2, top of the second page), but I just couldn't be bothered trying to record again, only to miss it again. I get it by itself, but after going through the whole tune, I invariably miss it. Such is life.

    The chords on page 83 - this is where I miss the others, as I know they would be interested in the chord substitutions, which we've finally got to.

    NB - where he introduces the dom 13 and says the 4th string must not sound - that's wrong. It must sound for the dominant, not for the major 6th. I'm sure you know this Frank, but it took me a while to work out and I'll say it here for the benefit of anyone who follows this.

    Frank, how do you see the diminished chords here? So far, I've got that the F#dim is basically a rootless D7b9. He uses diminished chords a lot and I'm determined to try to understand them as we go along. If you have any perspective on this, sing, because I'm not hot on diminisheds.
    Thanks for posting the recordings. You continue to impress me with your progress. You took the first couple of scale exercises at a pretty good clip.

    I can see that you are getting use to the chord changes (were you did one strum per chord, that's a good idea while you are getting them under your fingers). These progressions are starting to sound better to me with the addition of more 'jazzy' chords.

    And yes that must be a typo were it is written that "(4th string must not sound)" on the Dominant 13 chord.

    The diminished chords. My memory is failing me a bit as I did have to study this in the theory classes I took. This may not be correct but I can think of two common ways that they are used.

    1. As a passing chord between two diationic chords creating a chromatic line, like: The IV to the I, becomes, IV #IVdim7 I. And since the dim7 chord can have four names that is also IV Idim7 I, although I don't like it named that way.

    2. Like you mentioned. As a dominant function like in exercise 4 of page 83. Such as iim7 viidim7 I. Or, Am7 F#dim7 G. That F#dim7 is very similar in funtion to a D7, the V7 or more specifically the D7b9, V7b9.

    _________

    Your duets sound really good. Well done. (I guess there are no Ritards on the DVD).

  6. #5

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    I still need work to get this rhythmically tighter.



    "Do not "practice Reading Studies. Just read them."

    I made some mistakes. What you going to do?


  7. #6

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    Hi Frank, thanks for listening to the recordings, and for the encouragement. As you can hear, when I only give one strum, that's for a reason! Hopefully over time my fingers will get quicker.

    This was new to me:
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    1. As a passing chord between two diationic chords creating a chromatic line, like: The IV to the I, becomes, IV #IVdim7 I. And since the dim7 chord can have four names that is also IV Idim7 I, although I don't like it named that way.
    Just went and checked, that's definitely a sound I recognise. Thanks for that!

    This I already knew:
    2. Like you mentioned. As a dominant function like in exercise 4 of page 83. Such as iim7 viidim7 I. Or, Am7 F#dim7 G. That F#dim7 is very similar in funtion to a D7, the V7 or more specifically the D7b9, V7b9.
    I can see it will be an advantage to know for any key, instantly, which diminished arp goes with its dominant. I find this difficult to visualise away from the keyboard. Not impossible, just needs practice. Worth it, as it makes a cool sound, and it's the same calculation for the minors.

    Your recordings are good.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
    This was new to me:


    Just went and checked, that's definitely a sound I recognise. Thanks for that!
    Here's a sound you might have heard in a blues ending or turnaround:

    G7 - 35343x
    G9 - x2323x (no root, but you just played one on the previous chord)
    C7 - x3535x
    C#dim7 - x4535x
    G - x5543x
    Eb9 - x6566x
    D9 - x5455x
    Ab7 - 46454x
    G7 - 35343x

    Notice the bass movement.

  9. #8

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    Short but fun and easy to memorize


  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Here's a sound you might have heard in a blues ending or turnaround:

    G7 - 35343x
    G9 - x2323x (no root, but you just played one on the previous chord)
    C7 - x3535x
    C#dim7 - x4535x
    G - x5543x
    Eb9 - x6566x
    D9 - x5455x
    Ab7 - 46454x
    G7 - 35343x

    Notice the bass movement.
    Got it, finally! Yep, I've heard that before too. You need to finger it, otherwise with a pick you can't really hear the bass line for all the notes.

    (You wouldn't believe how difficult I find it to read the chords.)

    Your blues duet is cool. I find the shape for G2 quite difficult to maintain, especially after grabbing the G7 (s2, m2). I get that its the top half of an E shape chord, major or minor.

    And the palm muting is a right pain. I have some recordings, I just need to process them.

  11. #10

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    Whew, another chord etude notch on my belt. Two more chord etudes left in the book.


  12. #11

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    Frank, that was beautiful. I especially liked how you understated the last chord before the Da Capo.

    I think your edition must be a bit different from mine at the end though. What do you have for your coda? Perhaps you could explain?

    Must process my recordings.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ten left thumbs
    Frank, that was beautiful. I especially liked how you understated the last chord before the Da Capo.

    I think your edition must be a bit different from mine at the end though. What do you have for your coda? Perhaps you could explain?

    Must process my recordings.
    Thank You

    The last bit , just having some fun. That second to last chord, a G#5, I know those chords can fit into the whole tone scale. So I just "whole tone scaled" it (hey I made up a new verb). I moved it up the neck two frets at a time until I got back to where I started. Then I played the C triad at the twelfth fret and tapped the low C on the 6th string.

  14. #13

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    Thanks Frank, I'll check it out. I've been really busy and just now processed some recordings from a few days ago.


  15. #14

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    Blues in G:

    https://www.box.com/s/f72a9b6378b742bbd833

    The solo lick here I found initially really hard because of the hand shape, and especially shifting quickly from the V7 position to the minor and then the major. Also, complete nightmare with the palm muting. Need longer arms - or shorter guitar. About 6 inches should do it.

    Short and sweet is so beautiful:

    https://www.box.com/s/ccb549d8a592f88383e0

  16. #15

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    OK, I'm done with lesson 10. I do the reading studies, but I'm not recording them. Also, I'm going on holiday tomorrow for a week and will be away from the internet, as well as away from a guitar. Happy picking till I get back!

  17. #16

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    Hi Laura,

    Good job another etude out of the way. These are tricky. I particularly like the sound of the s. 5 & 6 and I like how you played that softly.

    Nice job on the picking etude. Those are pretty much as large as string skips get and you are handling them nicely. What's up with this being in D major mixing 1st and 2nd position, I guess this is a preview.

    Blues in G – I think you did the palm muting well. I really like your sense of time, it felt good.

    Short and Sweet – Is that a TV I hear in the background?
    Sounded good, your timing got off a bit at places. I can appreciate that this is difficult the way you record as you don't get the benefit of a metronome.

    Thanks for posting all these.

    Have a great vacation. In the meantime I'll record what I still need to do to finish the lesson. And I'll start the next thread when you get back, on Thursday July 12th.

  18. #17

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    Thankyou for listening and for your kind comments Frank.

    For short n sweet, I think that was hubby talking on the phone in the other room. The timing was off as was inevitable. I decided to go for rubato, rather than metronome. (I can record with metronome, just I like this duet rubato). So I recorded one part, leaving space for what I imagined I would want while playing the other part. The end result was more together than I imagined. I did play this in a lesson and it was bliss! Should have recorded. The benefit of being with another musician and you're both listening to each other? Ahhh!

    Blues in G - arguably I should have recorded with metronome. I just kept time as best I could but I really can't control the instrument well while palm muting. Anyway, done.

    As for the picking etude, an extra sharp seems as nothing compared to those stretches. That took ages, working a short spell at a time.

    The chord etudes are amazing. I hope there are more of these in vol 2.

    I don't understand how anyone can say playing guitar shouldn't hurt. These etudes, the picking and the chord ones, they hurt. There's no way round it. If it doesn't hurt it's because you conditioned your body long enough ago you can't remember it.

    Enjoy the rest of the lesson, and I'll see you when I get back!

  19. #18

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    Re: Blues in G

    Q.:

    Shouldn't the F# in the bass line over C9 not be an F natural? (2nd measure after the two pickup measures)

  20. #19

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    Hi TOMMO,i just checked this out for you,and yes there should be a natural symbol on that F#.I have an older copy of the book and a newer copy that came with the cd rom,and this error is in both books.Most errors in the old copy have been corrected in the newer book,but this one seems to have been overlooked.Shame really as the book is otherwise fantastic.Well spotted.

  21. #20

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    Thanks ECHOPLEX. Seems to me that not all errors have been corrected. No wonder judging by the amount of material presented. I have found a diagram for a 7sus4 chord that has a #4 (b5) instead of the 4, guess that's a mistake also. Most of them I can just correct all by myself but in some instances I'd rather have a second (and third opinion) cause I'm definitely a know-it-all type of guy....

    Back to the Blues in G: wouldn't it make more sense to notate it in the key of C, this type of Blues being in mixolydian tonality? Much less accidentals in the score, then....

  22. #21

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    I know what you mean Tommo,but sadly this is the way blues is generally notated so I guess we are stuck with it,blues is definitely one of those situations where conventional music theory doesn't quite fit.Maybe you can channel some of your frustration about it into the piece,you know what they say "If you aint got the blues you cant play it".

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECHOPLEX
    blues is definitely one of those situations where conventional music theory doesn't quite fit.
    How true!

  24. #23

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    boom. 30+ mins

    G Major Scale: I didn't get the end right. Yet I only practiced this scale 20 minutes prior to this first recording and reading wise I'm fairly happy so I figured it's a good way to speed up the road to the end of my contribution to this study group

    Arpeggio Study: ever so tough. barely muddled through but i appreciate the challenge it gave me.

    Dotted Eighth and Sixteenth_notes_study: tough on the reading again

    Waltz For Two Duet: slow huh ... it was the only way though for now. i love the actual piece though.

    Chord Forms: such beatiful chords beautiful enough to motivate me to learn chords more than i normally do

    Reading studies: the are what they are I guess.... Definitely less drop of concentration than I did experienced before. Relatively happy.

    Blues: Listen to Feps version and then this one. Really not sure sure if should laugh or cry. But then again, I didn't cry so it's cool

    Chord Etude n3: A nice and glowing neck humbucker on a nice and glowing amp playing etudes like this... what else do you need? Messed up the end and too much in a rush finishing the book to wait for a version where I correct it. Should be alright. I'm definitely coming back to these guys often.

    Picking Etude n5: Sometimes a lack of concentration, sometimes its severe string skipping I'm not on top of that missed me notes. Then again, practiced it twice before hitting record button so I'm relatively happy with the result.

    Short and Sweet: Haven't been able to capture what the gist of this exercise is musically. I saw it as a reading challenge which makes it a little lost.
    Troubles in the end again, will fix later.

  25. #24

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    I wonder @fep(and others), why did the number of pages increase towards the end? I see from here on out you had 9 pages? I am fine with it, just wanted to ask


    Also, while we are on the topic, how did you handle reviewing the book, after you were about half way? I mean, reviewing more than 60 pages can become problematic?

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by znerken
    I wonder @fep(and others), why did the number of pages increase towards the end? I see from here on out you had 9 pages? I am fine with it, just wanted to ask


    Also, while we are on the topic, how did you handle reviewing the book, after you were about half way? I mean, reviewing more than 60 pages can become problematic?
    You can play from about page 10 to page 57 in less than 30 minutes, but there's no need to. Play from page 10 to 39 one day and from 40 to 57 the next day...

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by znerken
    I wonder @fep(and others), why did the number of pages increase towards the end? I see from here on out you had 9 pages? I am fine with it, just wanted to ask


    Also, while we are on the topic, how did you handle reviewing the book, after you were about half way? I mean, reviewing more than 60 pages can become problematic?
    Jazzstdnt is correct, you can go through the pages quite quickly and you don't have the do all the pages each day. Just start at the beginning and you eventually catch up to where the new material is at which point you go back to the beginning. It's enough material that you can't memorize so it helps your reading.

    It went faster at the end as most of the group had faded away. At that point I went at my own pace. It was nice to finally actual finish one of my many music books.

  28. #27

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    How do you count the swing feel, compared to the legitimate eight note feel here?

    I guess something like one e and a for the eight notes. A Modern Method For Guitar Volume 1 - Lesson 10 - G Major Pages 80 - 89-screenshot-2019-01-14-10-54-12-jpg

  29. #28

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    No, the second note is played as the third pulse of an eighth-note triplet.


    The "a" of "1-e-and-a" is the "legit" version, and is later in the beat. :0

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
    No, the second note is played as the third pulse of an eighth-note triplet.


    The "a" of "1-e-and-a" is the "legit" version, and is later in the beat. :0

    So with swing feel you count one trip let

    with the straight feel you count 1 e and a ?, correct?

  31. #30

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    Yes, but just keep in mind the swing characterization is just an approximation. It's a reasonable way to start though.

  32. #31

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    For keeping time, should I be counting internally while I'm reading all of the pieces/exercises? Or is just counting before playing to get the rhythm down enough?

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by sun
    For keeping time, should I be counting internally while I'm reading all of the pieces/exercises? Or is just counting before playing to get the rhythm down enough?
    I would say the first option. Playing with a metronome helps.