A Modern Method for Guitar Vol 1 Pages 46 to 49

**fep** · 04-08-2012, 11:53 PM

It's Monday in England. So let's start this weeks pages.

I'm starting with review.

**Will Glen** · 04-09-2012, 02:16 PM

Oh man! Looks like we got three patterns in all twelve keys in the speed studies.

Is he wanting us to memorize them all in the first position??? Are you all planning on writing them out? I really struggle with transposing big time. This one is really going to be a challenge for me I can already tell.

**ten left thumbs** · 04-09-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Will Glen

Oh man! Looks like we got three patterns in all twelve keys in the speed studies.

Is he wanting us to memorize them all in the first position??? Are you all planning on writing them out? I really struggle with transposing big time. This one is really going to be a challenge for me I can already tell.

I think the plan is open position. I know when I first read that I thought it beyond me. Then I realised I only actually know 3 keys: C, F and G. I can be really thick about things sometimes.

That felt doable, at least for the first one. I never got as far as trying to do them fast. Maybe it would help if I wrote them out, but somehow that feels like admitting defeat.

Speaking of defeat, what does everyone make of the endurance etude? I find my mental stamina tested far more that the physical. I need to work on using minimum pressure on that pinkie - that's a strong finger, but I really don't need to sweat that note.

**fep** · 04-09-2012, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Will Glen

Oh man! Looks like we got three patterns in all twelve keys in the speed studies.

Is he wanting us to memorize them all in the first position??? Are you all planning on writing them out? I really struggle with transposing big time. This one is really going to be a challenge for me I can already tell.

I'm with TLT.

I think you only do the keys that have already been introduced. C, G, F, Am, Em. Down the road you can add other scales that you know.

This is something you can include in your daily practice as a warm-up, you could do it for years. You could also add other patterns too.

I also think, the patterns are what should be practiced. For instance mm. 1-3 and mm. 5-7 of Pattern 1. Mm. 1-3 and mm. 5-7 of Pattern 2. And, m.1 and m.3 of Pattern 3.

Those are the patterns that you'll actually hear sometimes in peoples solos/improv. You can take those patterns all the way up and down any scale you know.

**oldhead** · 04-09-2012, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Will Glen

Oh man! Looks like we got three patterns in all twelve keys in the speed studies. Is he wanting us to memorize them all in the first position??? Are you all planning on writing them out? I really struggle with transposing big time. This one is really going to be a challenge for me I can already tell.

I tried them this a.m. As written, not too bad, albeit not too fast, either.
As far as the other keys, it doesn't seem like it will be too hard; I boil it down to just memorizing the pattern and then remembering what key you're in. Probably easier said than done. I don't plan on writing them out.

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I think the plan is open position. I know when I first read that I thought it beyond me. Then I realised I only actually know 3 keys: C, F and G. I can be really thick about things sometimes. That felt doable, at least for the first one. I never got as far as trying to do them fast. Maybe it would help if I wrote them out, but somehow that feels like admitting defeat.

Speaking of defeat, what does everyone make of the endurance etude? I find my mental stamina tested far more that the physical. I need to work on using minimum pressure on that pinkie - that's a strong finger, but I really don't need to sweat that note.

Just looked at the endurance etude seriously today. That's a week's worth of work in itself - oh, and don't forget to use dynamics to make it sound musical

- oh, and don't forget the tempo changes.

This is going to take some determination and persistence - but we shall prevail. I'm still not looking ahead in the book (and haven't) so as not to get discouraged. Had I seen this a couple weeks ago, I don't know that I'd be making this post. Small steps at a time, persistence, review, practice, run the business, practice, mow the lawn, review, change the oil in the car, practice.....

Are we having fun yet?? Let's go get 'em!! TLT, if all else fails or your pinky fails you, there's a capo

FEP, I must have been typing when you were posting. Glad we have one cool head in the crowd.

**Will Glen** · 04-09-2012, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I think the plan is open position. I know when I first read that I thought it beyond me. Then I realised I only actually know 3 keys: C, F and G. I can be really thick about things sometimes.

That felt doable, at least for the first one. I never got as far as trying to do them fast. Maybe it would help if I wrote them out, but somehow that feels like admitting defeat.

Speaking of defeat, what does everyone make of the endurance etude? I find my mental stamina tested far more that the physical. I need to work on using minimum pressure on that pinkie - that's a strong finger, but I really don't need to sweat that note.

That's a relief. I will work on the keys I know and we've covered in the book. My challenge on the etude is the right hand mostly especially when going from the 1st string to 6th string but we will get er done. You raise a good point about not pressing down overly hard. I'm going to use that

**oldhead** · 04-09-2012, 06:02 PM

Question on Endurance Etude:
s5, m1, do you stroke the first c and e and then let them ring through when you stroke the g and c or do you strum the c, e and g as a chord? Also, last two measures. Not quite sure how the tie/slur marks are to be played.This came up in another piece and I wasn't sure and played it as single notes, letting the first to ring through. Would like to settle this as I'm sure we're going to see it over and over. Thanks.

**ten left thumbs** · 04-09-2012, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

Question on Endurance Etude:
s5, m1, do you stroke the first c and e and then let them ring through when you stroke the g and c

Yes.

or do you strum the c, e and g as a chord?

er, well, surely at some level it amounts to the same thing? It is a chord, and it is a guitar, so you are strumming it. Still, you play each note in time.

Also, last two measures. Not quite sure how the tie/slur marks are to be played.This came up in another piece and I wasn't sure and played it as single notes, letting the first to ring through. Would like to settle this as I'm sure we're going to see it over and over. Thanks.

You just let it all ring, he is indicating it's like tied notes, but he's not being too accurate about how he writes.

I've just realised something important, will write in a separate post.

**ten left thumbs** · 04-09-2012, 07:02 PM

I just had a lightbulb moment, and realised something that is the cause of confusion, on this group and elsewhere, regarding the notation of rhythm. If I can express myself well, this may help. If not, then please accept my apologies.

Music is complex and the method that has been devised to write it down has limitations. Writing notation for guitar is in its infancy, and not everything that the writer wants to say can always be written accurately, or at least if you write it accurately, it can be very confusing.

When someone is writing music, say a tune, what they care about is what note is played and when (in the bar) it should be played, e.g. beat 1, beat 2 and, etc. But we don't really have a way of specifying 'here's beat 2'. We could say, beat 1 will be written in blue, beat 2 in pink, etc, but they didn't have colours when they invented the system.

What we have instead is a system which specifies how long a note should last. And we learn, when we learn to read music, this is a one-beat note, this is a two beat note. So what you have to do when reading, is if you see a one beat note followed by the note G, then you realise that G is to come on beat two. The writer has to indicate to you by this slightly indirect means, when the note is to be played.

Take music written for harpsichord, say a Bach fugue. Bach knew full well that every harpsichord note lasts the same amount of time, lets say a second. The player has no control over how long it lasts. The pick plucks the string and physics takes over. So why did her bother writing a whole note tied to another whole note, when he knew the instrument was not capable of sounding the note that long?

Actually, he didn't care about that note - he just wanted the player to know when to play the next note. Correct placement of the next note was all that mattered.

So for Bach normally each voice has the correct number of beats in a bar, but often as a musician, reading more complex music, you come across something that doesn't seem to add up. And normally when you look at it more carefully you realise the composer or editor has laid notes in the bar in such a way you can work out when to start each note - but exactly how long each note is to be held for, you just work that out for yourself.

Leavitt does this all the time, and it's throwing people here. Lets take page 40, Duet, where he specifies that notes under a slur should be allowed to ring. The first note D is correctly notated as a 3 beat note. The second note B is notated as a quaver. But surely, if it is to be kept ringing, it should really be a crotchet (1/4) until the next B? Same goes for the next G. Why are they notated as quavers? Because that is the way that is kindest on the eye to do it, and to indicate that they come on 1, 1+, 2, 2+, etc.

Fast forward to endurance etude system 5 bar 1. Those ties don't add up mathmatically. The initial low C should be a crotchet as well as a quaver, but really, it's clear enough to make out when the notes should be started, and the ties indicate that the C and E should finish at the same time the G finishes.

A summary for anyone who has made it this far, or who has skipped to the end: when reading rhythms, think less about how long each note is notated to last. You had to learn that stuff about one beat and two beat notes, just to get you going. Think more about how the writer is indicating to you when to start each note in the bar.

I do hope this is helpful.

**oldhead** · 04-10-2012, 08:37 AM

TLT, Thanks so much for that exhaustive explanation and taking the time to do it. And I thought I was only going to learn the notes on the fretboard when I started this group! Now back to Endurance.

**oldhead** · 04-10-2012, 08:47 AM

Page 46, Chromatic Scale, Speed Study as Written (not up to speed)
Page 46, Chromatic Scale and Speed Studies (as written, not up to speed).mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
Page 47 Dm Scales, Rhythm Accompaniment
Page 47, Dm Scales and Rhythm Accompaniment.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

**Marty W** · 04-10-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Fast forward to endurance etude system 5 bar 1. Those ties don't add up mathmatically. The initial low C should be a crotchet as well as a quaver, but really, it's clear enough to make out when the notes should be started, and the ties indicate that the C and E should finish at the same time the G finishes.

I think you're right, the ties (spelled out C chord) should end on beat 3. I hear the B and A as pickup notes leading to the next section, more so than as part of the C chord. But it doesn't sound bad letting them all ring together. No one really knows for sure how he intended it to be played.

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

A summary for anyone who has made it this far, or who has skipped to the end: when reading rhythms, think less about how long each note is notated to last. You had to learn that stuff about one beat and two beat notes, just to get you going. Think more about how the writer is indicating to you when to start each note in the bar.

I do hope this is helpful.

That's right, if it sounds good it is good.

I view things like this as situational. When we're playing for ourselves, we should make the music personal and interpret as we hear it, as we do with the group. It makes it fun and rewarding.

At the opposite end of the spectrum. If we we're recording something like a movie soundtrack, the composer might insist the piece be played exactly as written with no room for interpretation.

IMO, both situations are appropriate.

**ten left thumbs** · 04-10-2012, 04:23 PM

You're welcome oldhead, glad it was helpful.

Originally Posted by Marty W

At the opposite end of the spectrum. If we we're recording something like a movie soundtrack, the composer might insist the piece be played exactly as written with no room for interpretation.

IMO, both situations are appropriate.

When someone pays me to play, I'll play they way they like it!

**ten left thumbs** · 04-10-2012, 04:24 PM

Fep, that's good work, and thanks for sharing it with us. It is certainly a good way to practice all scales, however easier said than done.

I find it really hard without the notes spelled out in front of me. But I do work on it...

**oldhead** · 04-10-2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Fep, that's good work, and thanks for sharing it with us. It is certainly a good way to practice all scales, however easier said than done.

I find it really hard without the notes spelled out in front of me. But I do work on it...

+1. Just gave it a try, but will keep at it.

**Will Glen** · 04-10-2012, 05:24 PM

Thanks Fep. I'm going to print it off and work on as well as add it to my folder for reference. Appreciate the demonstration as well.

**fep** · 04-10-2012, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

Page 46, Chromatic Scale, Speed Study as Written (not up to speed)
Page 46, Chromatic Scale and Speed Studies (as written, not up to speed).mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
Page 47 Dm Scales, Rhythm Accompaniment
Page 47, Dm Scales and Rhythm Accompaniment.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Really really good job. Only one little mishap on the scale patterns. The rhythm accompainiment sounded really cool and well done.

**fep** · 04-10-2012, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

FEP, Thanks so much for the PDF and doing that video. Writing the abbreviated patterns makes a lot of sense. The end of that video looked like fun. Is that something you have written out or are you just doing it by memory of the patterns? I believe you when you say one can practice this stuff for years.

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Fep, that's good work, and thanks for sharing it with us. It is certainly a good way to practice all scales, however easier said than done.

I find it really hard without the notes spelled out in front of me. But I do work on it...

Originally Posted by Will Glen

Thanks Fep. I'm going to print it off and work on as well as add it to my folder for reference. Appreciate the demonstration as well.

Thanks all for checking it out.

Oldhead, the last part I made up on the spot. It was played within the constraints of Bbmaj for a while and then Ebm (dorian mostly) for a while. And I was trying to include sequences.

I'm thinking about this and I think I came up with a good way to practice scales. First, practice scales using patterns. Second just jam away over a chord progression trying to incorporate those patterns (like I did with the fun with patterns).

What would happen if you spent some time every day doing those two steps?

In that second step you'll be practicing a tune and patterns at the same time, multi-tasking. I'd like to practice my technique, patterns, drills, new concepts while playing my repertoire as much as possible.

**Kojo27** · 04-14-2012, 02:57 AM

Guys and dolls -- I've become SO frustrated with trying simply to record and upload some overdubbed .mp3s, I'm about to commit a felony.

So: rather than get left totally behind, I'd like to post the Duet in F (that's where Frank asked me to start) in two separate files, part 1, part 2, and be done with it, so I can catch up.

If this is okay, I'm assuming I should upload the files to that week's thread (duh).

In case anyone's interested, here's what's happened:

Bought M-Audio interface from eBay, had no phantom power for recording acoustic guitar.
Bought new M-Audio interface - but its driver knocks out Vista's sound driver, and 5-year-old PC won't push hardware OR software, anyway.
Bought ZOOM H2 fancy-ass recorder (after losing Sony hand-held) - but took me days to realize fancy-ass ZOOM is f.ed up. Sending back.
Mic jack and sound card in computer never worked right - cuts out - tried that first. Bought 4 microphones. No dice.
Bought Roland Cube XL40 - it lets you overdub loops. No way to store or export loops, however, so f.ed again. (Good amp, tho!)
Got ancient boom box, planned to record to cassettes, then convert cassette recordings to .mp3s. Discovered that ancient boom box doesn't record anymore. : )
Dug out 1998 PII Toshiba laptop. 300MHz, beast. Mic works, sound recorder works! Will use this till something better comes along.

My page 35 stuff is coming soon - in bits and pieces, but hey-ho.

You're all sounding great, btw!

kj

**ten left thumbs** · 04-14-2012, 03:32 AM

Hi Kojo, Sorry to hear your troubles. I have a zoom h2 and it's wonderful and I've never had a problem with it, except once when the batteries ran out. Hope you get sorted.

**Kojo27** · 04-14-2012, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Hi Kojo, Sorry to hear your troubles. I have a zoom h2 and it's wonderful and I've never had a problem with it, except once when the batteries ran out. Hope you get sorted.

Oh yeah, TLL - the ZOOMs are *awesome* -- probably the best $150 or so a musician could spend. Record quality is amazing, and all those little gadget features, and the build-quality is top notch. I should have stated that I bought mine "used-but-mint" from Amazon, so the problems probably lie therein. I'm getting another one for sure! 500+ reviews and 5 stars can't be wrong!

kj