A Modern Method For Guitar Volume 1 Pages 35 to 38

**fep** · 03-12-2012, 04:46 PM

Working with the Key of F, some new chords, triplets and two tunes in F.

**ten left thumbs** · 03-12-2012, 05:15 PM

These F tunes are great!

**jsepguitar** · 03-13-2012, 10:33 AM

For "The Triplet" on page 37, I was wondering if anyone used Type 1 (down, up, down) for playing groups of triplets. I tend to always alternate pick them, although when a triplet is followed by a quarter note, for instance, I usually down pick the quarter note instead of up picking. For those of you that use Type 1, what do you like about it? Does it help you rhythmically, or is more the sound/articulation?

**ten left thumbs** · 03-13-2012, 04:56 PM

I use down up down strictly. Couldn't get my head around the other type. Why? Once I've got it, I've got it. Hand goes into autopilot and I'm fine. Other type I need to look ahead and think, OK, if it's a crotchet I downpick it, if more triplets, then ...

I only have a few brain cells, so I try not to strain them too much.

**fep** · 03-13-2012, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by jsepguitar

For "The Triplet" on page 37, I was wondering if anyone used Type 1 (down, up, down) for playing groups of triplets. I tend to always alternate pick them, although when a triplet is followed by a quarter note, for instance, I usually down pick the quarter note instead of up picking. For those of you that use Type 1, what do you like about it? Does it help you rhythmically, or is more the sound/articulation?

Hey Jsep, Did you catch up with us? Right on.

I'm practicing both ways as instructed by the book.

I think you nailed it, type 1 may help rhythmically, and for articulation especially if you want to accent the down beats. A lot of folks like to have their picking direction in sync with their foot tapping.

In addition, type 1 develops a technique of quickly recovering with a down stroke after a group of triplets. For example, say you play one group of triplets followed by a long run of eighth notes, you might want to play that first eighth note with a down stroke on the down beat. Our how about one group of triplets followed by a chord, you'd want to use a downstroke on the chord.

Type 2 is easier for me and is faster.

Ever since I changed my picking technique to the "Benson technique" a few weeks ago, I've been also practicing "economy picking" when moving up strings and alternate picking when moving down strings. So I'm actually doing this exercise a third way also.

**fep** · 03-16-2012, 05:50 PM

One thing I like, was trying to get real soft at the third system, and then crescendo at the end of the system into the next phrase.

There were other parts where I was going for "bouncy", I didn't make them bouncy enough.

**fep** · 03-18-2012, 02:50 PM

Page 37 exercise using picking type 1. This Type 1 picking is where you have a down pick on all the down beats. This is tricky for triplets. I took it much slower.

**oldhead** · 03-18-2012, 03:10 PM

FEP: I really like your airy, light feel on the Duet in F and your treatment of the waltz. Nice job on both.
The only comment I'll make on the exercises is: Geez, do you think you could get the trips a little faster?

MARTY: Duet was precise, accurate and very well timed. Did you use a metronome?

The waltz was super! I could hear a lot more "feel" in that one, and think you did a great job on it.

Time is really tight. This is probably it for me this week and will have to play catch-you-as-I-can over the next week or two. Was glad to be able to get this out. As usual for me, there are some timing issues and rushes.
Also, I need a string change (or new guitar, I keep telling my wife) - badly.
Have a great week y'all in MM1.
Duet
P36 Duet in F.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage'
Rhythm
http://www.box.com/s/f49dfab93e6728f7dfeb
Scale
http://www.box.com/s/ec58bae1f7a0f3b420c4

**ten left thumbs** · 03-18-2012, 05:09 PM

I see everyone's been hard at work.

Good stuff!

Here's my waltz in F, recorded after multiple takes:

waltz in F.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

I must admit I'm generally a bit down about my lack of progress. I find the finger contortions required for playing like this really hard. Each one is hit or miss. There's no real musical control. I'm just trying to play the notes, and not sound like a strangled cat. I first played this about 6 months ago, I worked really hard on it then. I'm now really working really hard on the chord etudes in the second part, and finding them, really hard. But I come back to this and find it no easier.

**Will Glen** · 03-18-2012, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I see everyone's been hard at work.

Good stuff!

Here's my waltz in F, recorded after multiple takes:

waltz in F.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

I must admit I'm generally a bit down about my lack of progress. I find the finger contortions required for playing like this really hard. Each one is hit or miss. There's no real musical control. I'm just trying to play the notes, and not sound like a strangled cat. I first played this about 6 months ago, I worked really hard on it then. I'm now really working really hard on the chord etudes in the second part, and finding them, really hard. But I come back to this and find it no easier.

I've not gotten to this one yet so I'm unfamiliar with it but I have noticed an increased smoothness in the fretting and changes in your playing from what I can remember TLT.

This sounds like progres to me.

**ten left thumbs** · 03-18-2012, 05:45 PM

That's very kind of you to say Will, but I'm really not sure. In Jan I posted some fairly duff recordings as I was just getting back into playing after injury. Sometimes I wonder if my fingers are just not built for these kinds of gymnastics. On the upside, I'm not getting that left-hand pain now I've eased up on practicing.

**oldhead** · 03-18-2012, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I see everyone's been hard at work.

Good stuff!

Here's my waltz in F, recorded after multiple takes:

waltz in F.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

I must admit I'm generally a bit down about my lack of progress. I find the finger contortions required for playing like this really hard. Each one is hit or miss. There's no real musical control. I'm just trying to play the notes, and not sound like a strangled cat. I first played this about 6 months ago, I worked really hard on it then. I'm now really working really hard on the chord etudes in the second part, and finding them, really hard. But I come back to this and find it no easier.

Sounds like the basics are there, just needs a little fine tuning. I think some of these come more naturally to us than others. There were a few rough spots, but there were places where it sounded good also. I think this is one of those ones you just keep working on to smooth it out. On the Duet in F, I found myself working one measure at a time in spots because my fingers just didn't want to do what the notes said - and then it just seemed to click. Persistence will pay off in the end. Keep up the good work, TLT, and thanks for posting that. After listening to FEP and Marty, I thought I was the only struggling with finger contortions. We're all in this together.

**fumblefingers** · 03-18-2012, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I see everyone's been hard at work.

Good stuff!

Here's my waltz in F, recorded after multiple takes:

waltz in F.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

I must admit I'm generally a bit down about my lack of progress. I find the finger contortions required for playing like this really hard. Each one is hit or miss. There's no real musical control. I'm just trying to play the notes, and not sound like a strangled cat. I first played this about 6 months ago, I worked really hard on it then. I'm now really working really hard on the chord etudes in the second part, and finding them, really hard. But I come back to this and find it no easier.

sounds like you're playing an acoustic steel string. you may want to lighten the strings a bit if it helps your hands.

you sounded pretty good. one thing to look out for is legato playing. i.e. make sure that you hold each note for its full value. you were chopping some notes off early.

good work.

**Marty W** · 03-19-2012, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by fep

Here's the exercises from page 35.

On my first recording I didn't like the sound of me picking so hard. So I deleted and recorded again trying to pick softly. I do like the sound of an acoustic guitar picked softly... I know I've said that before but I've got to keep reminding myself.

I had a real hard time hearing the metronome on the chord exercises (the metronome volume was low), and that threw my focus off when I was thinking, "I can't hear the metronome".

Sounded good. I liked how you did them all in one take. Good energy on the chords.

The only thing I noticed was m.1 beat 1 of the accompaniment. A little bit of a slow start. No big deal, just pointing it out because I find it hard to get in the groove on the first note of the exercises. Kind of like going from 0 to 60 in one beat.

Originally Posted by fep

One thing I like, was trying to get real soft at the third system, and then crescendo at the end of the system into the next phrase.

There were other parts where I was going for "bouncy", I didn't make them bouncy enough.

Loved the energy and dynamics on this one. Great job! The way you played the 3rd system really caught my ear. Liked how those open D notes popped out in part 2 mm. 9 & 11

I noticed only one minor timing issue, m.17 beat 1. That's pretty remarkable for the tempo you played it. I'm going to try to copy your feel as I review this one.

Originally Posted by fep

I think this is a pretty piece. Amazing to think how quickly this book moves when you think of what we were playing in the first week compared to this.

Self critique - I like the flow and dynamics that I used. I played it a bit Rubato in places.

Negatives, I have some notes that weren't played clearly and this tune seems to make my fingers feel stiff. Or, maybe they are just stiff this morning.

I'm going to copy this one too.

Nice interpretation. Sounded very personal with lots of feeling. The dynamics in mm. 26 & 27 were a great idea.

The ritard seemed a little late at the beginning. But maybe you did that on purpose because of how you increased the speed of the 1/8 notes in the previous bar.

**fep** · 03-19-2012, 12:58 PM

Spring Break time!

So for me this will be a review week and maybe I'll post some supplemental material on the supplemental thread.

I wanted to give some a chance to catch up with the start group.

Starting Monday 3/26/12 we will go for pages 39 to 42.

Great work all.

(I'll get some time later today to reply to some of the posts on this thread)

**Marty W** · 03-19-2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by oldhead

MARTY: Duet was precise, accurate and very well timed. Did you use a metronome?

Duet
P36 Duet in F.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage'
Rhythm
Page 35 Rhythm.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage
Scale
Page 35, Key of F (Fisrt Position).mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Thanks oldhead. I recorded only part 1 with the metronome. Part 2 I played while listening to the playback without the click.

The Duet was well played with nice energy. The strums were tight. The only timing issue was m. beat 1. I think part 2 was a little late. I'm going to start calling that "1st beat-itis".

**Marty W** · 03-19-2012, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

I see everyone's been hard at work.

Good stuff!

Here's my waltz in F, recorded after multiple takes:

waltz in F.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

I must admit I'm generally a bit down about my lack of progress. I find the finger contortions required for playing like this really hard. Each one is hit or miss. There's no real musical control. I'm just trying to play the notes, and not sound like a strangled cat. I first played this about 6 months ago, I worked really hard on it then. I'm now really working really hard on the chord etudes in the second part, and finding them, really hard. But I come back to this and find it no easier.

Thanks for posting TLT. As oldhead said, you've got all the pieces in there. Just keep reviewing and it will get better.

I like to isolate difficult parts and repeat them over and over until I can visualize exactly what my fingers are supposed to do. After you do that you can use the visualizing technique while away from the instrument. That would help you avoid overplaying and it's legitimate practice time.

A couple questions for you:

Are you doing daily finger exercises?

Do you experiment with different thumb and wrist positions behind the neck as you're playing difficult chords?

I've always found that to be helpful with students, and not something everyone thinks of.

I agree with fumblefingers about maybe trying an easier playing guitar. I'm using an arch top with flatwounds and very low action. It plays a lot easier than my acoustic.

**ten left thumbs** · 03-19-2012, 05:17 PM

Thankyou oldhead, fumblefingers and Marty, for the encouragement. To answer some specific points:

I did need a change of strings, so today I went from 12s to 11s, and I'll see how that goes. Change of strings is always good for a morale boost. Recently I have also been playing my electric, which is easier because it is physically smaller, strings closer together, lower action, but also less satisfying because it just happens to be rubbish...

If I had money to spend I would buy an archtop, however I have no money and a shopping list of instruments, on which, guitar is second.

Hopefully the change of strings will make things a little easier.

As for daily finger exercises, the assignment for March has been MM1 pp 70-71, also the two chord etudes on pages 62 and 72. These are the workouts and marathons. For yoga I do this:

As for thumb and wrist positions, yes, they move according to what I'm doing. I find mostly I need to adjust the angle of the fretboard, or of my arm as it approaches, to maximise my stretch. I also find I adjust the angle of the guitar, and I'm never totally sure what is best.

I do absolutely hear the inadequacies of the legato, where notes are cut off short. If I could do something about it, I would. I am simply at my physical limit, for now. In this waltz, the hardest part was bar 8, squeezing my index behind the other fingers. But every legato challenge is a challenge.

I will try Marty's visualisation technique for sure.

I am sort of torn between keeping going with MM, and leaving it completely, doing other things, and coming back to it. Who knows, maybe in 6 months it won't seem so hard?

**ten left thumbs** · 03-24-2012, 07:12 PM

Update: A couple of days ago I felt I'd made no progress at all in the month or so previous.

Now things are getting better. I have practised steadily but not madly, also with slightly lighter strings. The main thing I focussed on was visualising what I was doing, and this has made a big difference. I find visualising quite difficult (I can't do it at all away from the instrument, I think this probably has something to do with my X chromosomes).

Anyway, when I focus really hard on visualising (as opposed to looking and thinking) I find I can tilt the fretboard a shade toward my fingers which really helps. Also, I think my fingers are finally adjusting to the strange contortions I make them do. That is, it is no longer always painful.

I have given myself a holiday from any new pages in the book till the beginning of April, meanwhile I do my usual pages and practice from melodic rhythms and some other books. I still make loads of mistakes. I think my biggest mistake was thinking that I should find something on page 36 easier just because I have progressed on in the book.

This book is a tough nut to crack. Somehow, sometime, it's got to get easier.

**Will Glen** · 03-24-2012, 11:41 PM

We all have our ups and downs TLT. Hang in there.

**fumblefingers** · 03-25-2012, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by ten left thumbs

Update: A couple of days ago I felt I'd made no progress at all in the month or so previous.

Now things are getting better. I have practised steadily but not madly, also with slightly lighter strings. The main thing I focussed on was visualising what I was doing, and this has made a big difference. I find visualising quite difficult (I can't do it at all away from the instrument, I think this probably has something to do with my X chromosomes).

Anyway, when I focus really hard on visualising (as opposed to looking and thinking) I find I can tilt the fretboard a shade toward my fingers which really helps. Also, I think my fingers are finally adjusting to the strange contortions I make them do. That is, it is no longer always painful.

I have given myself a holiday from any new pages in the book till the beginning of April, meanwhile I do my usual pages and practice from melodic rhythms and some other books. I still make loads of mistakes. I think my biggest mistake was thinking that I should find something on page 36 easier just because I have progressed on in the book.

This book is a tough nut to crack. Somehow, sometime, it's got to get easier.

glad to hear things are going better. your plateau idea is good - don't progress too soon if you need to firm up a section. but don't linger too long either!

it will get easier with practice only - and yes - your guitar has to be friendly to your hands. don't fight a tough guitar, its a progress killer.

but please make note, the 3 volumes were designed to be progressive. that is, they were designed to be more challenging with every turn of the page. that is only one reason why its a very good method.

**bobsguitars09** · 03-25-2012, 12:11 PM

Thinking about going through the books also.

can someone please post a diagram of the scale shapes used in the book?
or a Tab in the key of C?

**ten left thumbs** · 03-25-2012, 01:55 PM

Fumble fingers, I would like to think I might one day make it through the 3 volumes. I will see how it goes. As it is my LH is stretched to its limit.

Bob - the method teaches reading music on treble clef so there is no need for tab. The scales start out in open position.

**kennyg** · 03-25-2012, 03:14 PM

Just checking in...

working on Duet in F.

Fingering is not bad for me..

I'm finding that I think I nailed the first part, then when I go to play 2nd part against the first, I realize that my timing needs much work.

Practicing at 80bpm

Hopefully post something this afternoon.

Ken

**Will Glen** · 03-25-2012, 04:16 PM

I tried to pick up the tempo but didn't get where I wanted to get. I went ahead and posted to get caught up with the group as best I can so I can hopefully participate more when others post so I'm familiar with what is going on in the threads.

I do find that when going back and reviewing previous materials I am able to kick the BPM up alot more than when I initially recorded my submissions and overall improvement occurs in regards to making fewer mistakes.

Duet in F pg 36.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Waltz in F solo pg 38.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

What is overall very encouraging though is the ability to sight read a whole heck of alot better when looking at notes from various sources then I have in the past. For me this is very encouraging and exciting.