questions on learning (ingraining) fingerings

**morroben** · 06-18-2011, 08:36 PM

Hey everyone. I'm pretty new around here but I had a question that I was hoping you folks might be able to help me with.
About a year ago I started getting into jazzier things and I've been playing almost nothing but chord-melody since then. Since I'm new, I'm learning more chords and starting to harmonize beyond basic triads (like I said, I'm new) and so I've been trying to get certain fingerings ingrained in my brain.
As a basic example, I would finger a Gmaj7 like this

[chord]

||---|---|-1x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1--|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1--|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1--|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1--|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/chord]
This worked out well since I would pluck strings simultaneously and simply not pluck the 1st or 5th string, and it left my pinky free for the melody line.

Well now I'm in the beginnings of trying to work with a vocalist. This requires some more strumming rather than plucking, or so it seems to me. So now, to make it more strum friendly I would play a Gmaj7

[chord]

||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/chord]
This fingering makes it easier to mute the 1st and 5th string on the strum.

I've got a ton of new chords to learn. I'm trying to learn them with roots on the 6th, 5th, and 4th strings. So each new chord I'm trying to learn 3 times. It seems even more daunting if I have to learn multiple fingerings for each one of those just to be able to go back and forth between the solo stuff and the stuff with the vocalist. And it's hard to automatically go to the correct fingering on the fly.
Is there a better approach to memorizing this stuff? Am I out of my mind?

edit: as an added, related question, just how frowned upon is using the thumb-over to fret? It's something I did quite a bit in my bluesier/rockier days, but I've tried to avoid it since I've started this jazzier stuff. It seemed "improper", and jazz seems like a fairly "proper" genre.
If I do it that way, I can do my Gmaj7
[chord]

||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-t-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/chord]
Kinda the best of both worlds, but it makes a moving bass line more difficult.

**brwnhornet59** · 06-19-2011, 12:13 AM

To thumb or not to thumb. That is up to you. Me? I avoid it unless absolutely necessary. With the chords do you want full extensions or just the basics?

GM7

[CHORD]

||---|---|---|----|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|----|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|--3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|--2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|----|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|----|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]

**brwnhornet59** · 06-19-2011, 12:16 AM

Or GM9[CHORD]

|x---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-4--|---|---|---|---|---|---|--|
|x---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]

**brwnhornet59** · 06-19-2011, 12:21 AM

Or GM7

[CHORD]

||---|---|---|---|---|---|-4--|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-4--|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|----|---|---|
|x---|---|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-3--|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

[/CHORD]

Also check out m78w's site. He has tons of inversions, Drop 2,3,4. All the stuff you could want.

**morroben** · 06-19-2011, 04:49 AM

I don't think I explained my question very well. I'm learning a lot of voicings (and I will check out that site). My question is how do you pick the correct fingering for that voicing on the fly? It seems that I often don't realize that a different fingering would have worked out better until it's too late.

**bako** · 06-19-2011, 08:07 AM

When there are options:

There is the fingering that is easiest to play.

There is a fingering with an easy transition from the previous chord.

There is a fingering with an easy transition to the following chord.

There is a fingering that facilitates additional upper, inner and bass line movement.

These are a few factors to balance in making a decision in a given context.

**brwnhornet59** · 06-19-2011, 10:16 AM

Good answers both. I am sorry, I read your question late at night. As for best choices? I assume that you will be the only instrument. I would keep voicing's mainly on the 6th and 5th strings, using the 4th string for the higher voices rather than going past the 8th fret on the 5 & 6 strings. This will keep your registers sounding more vibrant and fuller. IMHO.
As for which inversion? Play different ones with her singing. Try and reinforce her cadence and find what sounds best. It wont take long. You will both hear the best choice's rather quickly.

The actual choices will depend on your preference's as well as the situations that were pointed out by Paul and bako. I hope this helps.

**morroben** · 06-19-2011, 04:17 PM

Thanks for the help guys. I guess it's just another one of those things that will get easier with more time and practice.

Originally Posted by PaulD

I think the fingerings will depend on the chord you're coming from and where you're going next.

The "where I'm coming from" part isn't so bad, I just have a hard time thinking 2 chords ahead to know the "where I'm going" part.

I guess I should break the "thumb over" habit. It's just so convenient for freeing up other fingers. AND it makes it easy to mute the 5th string, which seems to come up a lot.

**brwnhornet59** · 06-19-2011, 05:37 PM

Do what you feel most natural with. You will change things as you progress. As for the chords, that is why i said to practice the song with the singer. Have a few pre-arranged chord patterns to choose from. Then see through experimenting which ones feel and sound the most natural against her voice. Come up with a few different arrangements. You will find it.

**morroben** · 06-19-2011, 06:42 PM

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I just watched your Giant Steps blog. Excellent stuff!

**brwnhornet59** · 06-19-2011, 11:11 PM

I wish i could take credit for that. But that was not me. That amazing guy is Morten Faerstrand. He is one of my hero's. He lives in Norway. He is a Berklee grad and teach's online. He has a ton of other videos on youtube as well as doing free lessons. sign up for them and check him out.

**cosmic gumbo** · 06-20-2011, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by morroben

I guess I should break the "thumb over" habit. It's just so convenient for freeing up other fingers. AND it makes it easy to mute the 5th string, which seems to come up a lot.

Metheny does it constantly. Use your thumb if it's easier. Whatever works for your hands.

**johnny67** · 09-11-2011, 06:50 PM

ive been using my thumb a lot lately and it seems to really make things easyer once you learn to use it well.

**loydb** · 09-12-2011, 08:32 AM

Those of us with tiny hands *wish* we could thumb-over

**pingu** · 09-12-2011, 11:34 AM

Tiny hands ? .... get a birdland
hell get one anyway !

**pingu** · 09-12-2011, 11:41 AM

In answer ..........
go for the most comfy in that place in the tune
Thumb over is OK ........
there's no wrong or right way with Jazz

also having different fingerings for the same chord
is fine too , in fact its a good thing !

It does get easier !