Acoustic or Electric?

**23skidoo** · 03-01-2011, 08:59 AM

I've been playing acoustic for years and only started fooling around with an electric guitar the last month or two. I want to be able to play both well. I'm having trouble (it's getting better each day) not pushing those skinny electric strings too hard - I'm used to medium and heavy gauge flatpicking strings. I talked to the one guy at my local Guitar Center who doesn't seem to be an a-hole about it and ended up with some heavier electric strings, some Power Slinkys. It helped a little, but I know it's all about time on the instrument.

I guess my question for teachers and more experienced players is this - starting out learning jazz, should I stick with one or the other, learning all these new chords, arps, scales, etc? I realize this is a pretty individual thing and all roads lead to the same watering hole, but just wondering if there's something I don't know. I enjoy playing both and I'm no slave to efficiency, but if there are compelling opinions, one way or the other, I'd be curious.

In your experience, does it make a difference going back and forth when starting out? Just the sort of thing I would ask a teacher if I could afford one.....

Thanks in advance....

bill

**docbop** · 03-01-2011, 11:19 AM

It's a matter of learning to play a different instrument the same can happen with different acoustics. I play both a lot these days and they do feel different and require slightly different playing styles. Acoustics tend to have smaller and lower frets, compared to regular electrics the strings are heavier. Then the notes don't sustain as long so muting not an issue like on electric.

I would say heavier strings will help, but just have to focus on the differences with doing your warmups and technique. When playing electric have to think about now controlling sustain, and even chording noise what would disappear on acoustic will ring on electric. So just stuff to address and workout over time on electric. In long run playing both helps both.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-01-2011, 11:29 AM

All the stuff docbop said is spot on. There's different techniques for controlling each, but you can play both.

Don't be afraid to go heavier on the electric--if it's jazz you're playing, get an electric set with a wound G--the intonation benefits are great.

Make sure to have the guitar set up by someone knowledgeable so it's in the best playing order you can get.

**max_power** · 03-01-2011, 12:50 PM

I'd recommend spending more of your practice time on the electric. You don't have to use it exclusively, you can switch between your electric and acoustic... but there are some advantages to using an electric. One is that you have access to higher frets, and you can practice playing your scales, arpeggios and chords there. Another is that some jazz chords require you to do some barring with each of your fingers (not just the first one!), and they'll be easier to learn on an electric.

It might seem now that you have to choose whether you'll be a better acoustic player or electric player, but that's not really the case. Practice your stuff on the electric, and a few times a week pick up your acoustic and go over what you've learned on that guitar. In no time you'll be proficient with both.

**Gramps** · 03-01-2011, 12:51 PM

This isn't a 'jazz' question. You'd have the same issue no matter what style of music you play.

**23skidoo** · 03-01-2011, 02:26 PM

Thanks for the input. I have been tending to play the electric more with the jazz stuff.... it's the sound I associate with it and it is a lot easier, although I've put some lighter gauge strings on my acoustic. Also, the electric I've got is a hand-me-down from a rock/ blues guy... it's a funky old Gretsch solid body and the fret board seems tiny and it's still pretty hard to arrest all the random noise.... I have a hard enough time with that on the acoustic, lol. When I pick up my Taylor after a few days away it's like seeing a relative's kid after a passage of time - 'My, how you've grown!'

I've played a few of the moderately priced hollow /semi-hollow electrics at the local store. It's a weird hybrid and I like it. I'll pick one up, eventually, once the budget allows and I have more of an idea of what I want out of it.

Thanks again for the sage wisdom....

**23skidoo** · 03-11-2011, 01:45 PM

more advice needed......

I've been playing my electric a lot and I'm running into a problem. I'm trying to correct my form, especially my left hand. For years I've been playing my acoustic with medium/heavy gauge strings and hardly using my pinky - only for extensions on open chords and on barre chords, but never really holding it in the proper position (I broke it when I was younger and it healed crooked). I've got a pretty serious callus going on the wrong part of my fingertip - it's closer to the pad of my finger and not right on the tip. It keeps getting hung on the thinner electric strings and it's pretty hard to keep it under my finger in the proper position - the string keeps slipping off the edge of the callus, which is where the middle of the callus would ideally be. Does this make sense?

I'm not sure if this is a stupid question or not. I've tried picking at it, sanding it down, everything to try to reduce it. This has been going on for 6 weeks +. Is it just a matter of building up a new callus - careful time on the instrument, working around it? I think this is the obvious answer, but if there's some good advice for something more expeditious from a more experienced player, I'd love to hear it....

**mr. beaumont** · 03-11-2011, 02:30 PM

If you like thicker strings, then why are you using thinner strings?

**Kman** · 03-11-2011, 03:51 PM

Here is a recording I made of Au Privave on acoustic. The only bad thing is some squeaking from time to time.

01 Au Privave.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

**23skidoo** · 03-11-2011, 04:16 PM

Mr. B-

I'm using EB Power Slinky (11-48) strings. I'm no gear head, but my understanding is this is about the heaviest string I can use without changing the set up on my guitar.

That being said - I've actually switched to lighter gauge strings on my acoustic over the last year and I'm having the same problem with it, just not as bad. It's more about form than string size, though - the callus is just in the wrong place and I can't really tell that it's getting much better. Like I said, I know it's just a matter of time on the instrument using proper form, I just thought some of the instructors on here who have helped others clean up their playing might have run into this before. I'm hoping for a magic bullet or some folksy home remedy that actually works, like putting nutmeg in your radiator to stop coolant leaks or using yellow mustard to treat mild burns (both of which, incidentally, work surprisingly well).

As far as heavier strings and a new set up.... I'm saving up for a new guitar and don't want to spend $50-$75 on the hand-me-down that I'm using - rather put it into one of the hollow bodies the guys at Guitar Center are getting tired of me coming into play.....

**max_power** · 03-11-2011, 05:31 PM

To get rid of the callus:

Soak your hand in warm water for 5 min. At this point the callus will feel soft, and will look whitish. Take a nail file or a dull edge (such as a butter knife) and gently scrape away the callus. After some of it is scraped off, you might have to soak your hand again in order to continue without tearing your skin. When you're done, you should be left with a spot of skin that is tougher than, but also level with, the surrounding skin. Problem solved.

**23skidoo** · 03-12-2011, 06:31 PM

max- thanks for the suggestion, but I already tried it. This is a serious callus. I get most of it off, but it's deeeeep..... and it just reforms in the same place. Paying the price for 10+ years of sloppy technique....

I feel like kind of an idiot for even asking the question.... Thought there might be some secret knowledge that denies common sense....I know it's just a matter of time, building a callus annex in the proper place....

**23skidoo** · 03-17-2011, 06:59 PM

still yet more advice desired -

I'm pretty ignorant about guitar tech, especially relating to the electric.... can I put 13's on a Gretsch BST-100 (just like this one) without the expense of a set up? I've gotten different opinions from different people (that all want my money in one way or another) and I'm looking for help. The guitar is fine as is, I just want to try to get a fatter, darker sound out of heavier flatwound strings with a wound G.... Is this something you can tell without actually seeing the instrument? Any comment most appreciated....

**pingu** · 03-17-2011, 09:37 PM

If you know how to adjust the truss rod you'll be fine
with big strings
Big strings are cool , go for it

**mr. beaumont** · 03-17-2011, 09:48 PM

Setups are the biggest racket in guitar rep0air. All most guys will do is tweak the neck if needed and adjust the intonation, both of which any guitarist can learn to do.

Some guitars will need a little nutwork if you go really heavy, but if the guitar is already accomodating .11's its more than likely it'll take .12's just fine too--and one gauge can make a big difference in feel.

**Gramps** · 03-18-2011, 09:14 AM

I don't agree that setups are always a racket but I do think that as a player you shouldn't be a slave to your instrument and learn to do at least minor set up work yourself. After all, who knows better than you what action your looking for.

The only issue I see with larger strings is you may have to enlarge the nut slots to fit the stings (Possibly the saddle slots too, depending on the instrument) You'll also most likely have to adjust the truss rod and string height at the bridge then check the intonation. If you change your mind and want to go with thinner strings again you can easily put everything back except the nut slots which will be too wide for the thinner strings. This might or might not be a problem that requires replacing the nut. (You can fill the nut slots with superglue and re-file them but superglue won't last like the original nut material)

**23skidoo** · 03-18-2011, 09:43 AM

thanks again for the advice....

I don't know why I've allowed myself to be mystified by this process - I guess I've known a couple of people who screwed up nice instruments working on them at home but, come to think of it, they were kind of idiots.... These suggestions have made me realize I need to up the ante on DIY maintenance like I'm trying to do with my playing - part of being a more serious player is knowing the instrument better.... Thanks for the reality check and the information....worst comes to worst, I'll just take it to someone who knows what they're doing.

**Reg** · 03-18-2011, 10:43 AM

I'm a jazz player... I have fifty guitars as do most of us. I use 13 - 56 on my solid body types, even on my 347, 335 and tele. I don't like the no feel response of thin strings and low action, I'm not sayings it's bad... but both set up have a big influence on how you play.... which unless your a very special person, or have already developed all your skills, will influence how you sound. I cover all types of gigs, have tones of chops, can read and hear pretty much anything. I'm a jazz player who can cover other styles... I'm not a different style player who can cover some jazz. Again I'm not judging either, just pointing out the difference. As Mr. B said it's pretty simple to do all the adjustment yourself... I'm always playing with pickups, getting options for single and double coil, crossing them up.... finding different sounds... I've wrecked a few pick-ups. I do have my frets redone by best I can find( re-place). I'm just one of many as far as opinions...Reg

**brad4d8** · 03-18-2011, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by 23skidoo

I guess I've known a couple of people who screwed up nice instruments working on them at home

A couple of pieces of advice. Make a graph that accurately depicts the current settings on the saddle, both intonation wise (assuming a TOM style bridge) and height wise so you can always go back to where it was before you started changing. If you are adjusting the truss rod, start with a quarter turn )or less) and keep a record of how much you turn, again so it can be restored to original if needed.
Good Luck,
Brad

**23skidoo** · 03-18-2011, 11:09 AM

I just spent the most productive hour of my guitar life, I think.

Let me start by saying that I've had more experienced players tell me my Taylor dreadnought was 'hard to play'. I didn't give it much thought, I've been playing it for almost 15 years and it is what it is. I basically learned on the instrument. As I've started moving up the fret board these last few months, especially since I've had the electric to compare it to, I've figured out what they meant. The action is weirdly high and uneven closer to the saddle.

So it needed new strings. I decided to take a stab at a basic set up, got on the Taylor site, looked around a few other places, and went to work. I quickly figured that the f*cking saddle on my guitar has been BACKWARD for the last 15 years! F*cking Guitar Center! or however did the initial set up. Like I said, I'm not really a tech guy, I put strings on it and play it, just took it for granted. Don't play many other instruments, either.... There's this weird combination of feeling like an idiot and being proud of myself for finally taking the initiative and figuring it out....

Long story short - adjusted the height of the properly oriented saddle and minor truss rod adjustment and the thing plays like a dream. It's like a having a new guitar. I've always loved the sound but it's a lot easier to play.

Thanks to all for the advice and impetus to just do it myself. I'm anxious to get some heavier strings for the electric and give it a shot....

**mr. beaumont** · 03-18-2011, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gramps

I don't agree that setups are always a racket

I shouldn't say always (actually I don't think I did but it does seem implied)

My only take on it is that a "setup" in most places nowadays seems to be a string change, neck tweak and intonation...now, on some guitars, like an acoustic--intonations a bit of work--they might not even do that! Most places will charge extra on top of the "setup" fee for nut filing or bridgework, which are necessary for the damn thing to be set up properly anyway.

I'm not the handiest cat on the block, for sure--you don't want me near a soldering iron-- but I can adjust a guitars neck, saddle/bridge to adjust intonation, do some minor nut filing and hammer down a high fret or two. All of this has saved me a bundle over the years--and I don't have bundles to spare!

**Gramps** · 03-18-2011, 02:56 PM

No you didn't say always......but as you admit, you didn't "not say it". lol. No big deal and sorry for the misquote.

I think it's a good idea to research how work is done on the web to see if it is something you would be able to or like to do yourself and take the money that you'd have paid someone else to do the work and start buying yourself some tools. (I do this for everything. not just guitars) For the cost of a fret mill job you can buy the tools needed to dress the frets, learn something new and have change left over.

Stewart MacDonald is a good resource for tools. Maybe a bit expensive but they have lots of specialized stuff and have been around for a long time.

STEWMAC.COM : Guitar, Bass, Banjo, Mandolin, Parts, Tools, Supplies, Free Information

BTW. No Financial Interest.

**23skidoo** · 03-20-2011, 05:54 PM

thanks for the link, Gramps - looks like a great site.

Just another word of thanks for the advice - picked up some D'addario Chromes flatwound 12's today and got them sounding great on my old Gretsch with minimal tinkering. What a huge difference... more playable, really warms up and darkens the funky sound of the instrument, a completely different sound/ experience.... and all for the price of a new set of strings. I'll give these a shot and then try the 13's..... it's great - never really experimented with strings. It's like breaking it off with your high school sweetheart and realizing there's a whole world of strange, beautiful girls out there just waiting to be asked out...