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Thought this thread could make for a good resource for people starting out...
What are some common songs in the Real Book that are often called in a different key than what is in the RB?
So to start things off, "Autumn Leaves" is often played in Gm instead of Em (though I still really like that one in Em) and "Green Dolphin Street" is usually played in Eb and not C (I think I remember that one being in C in the RB, don't have a copy here to check)
Add more below.
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10-24-2024 10:00 AM
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Many are not in the original written keys but because of the widespread use and acceptance of real (fake) books those are the keys called.
That said a lot of vocalists sing many tunes in 'the real book' in another key as they're not in their range and weren't transcribed w them in mind, the original tunes were frequently written as vocal tunes.
But there's some singers that can also do them in real book keys.
Then there's the singers that don't know their range or what key they're in.
"can you come down a little bit?"
"no, that's not it, can you come up a little bit?"
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AH yes, with singers all bets are off. I once knew a singer who's wheelhouse was just flat of Db
I was thinking of tunes played instrumentally that are usually called in keys other than that in the RB.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Night and Day (Real Book: C; Real World: Eb)
Equinox (RB: C-; RW: C#-
Debatable:
Like Someone in Love (RB: Eb; RW, 50/50 Eb/C, though maybe C is less common that that)
Girl From Ipanema, arguably RB/F is "wrong" and "Db" is right, even though this is more complicated than most of the RB vs RW examples
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The 2 you listed are the most common ime and along w tunes like Blue Bossa are the first ones beginners learn. Just Friends is another that sometimes gets called in another key
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Useful thread.
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
I’m also always amazed at the number of fine singers who don’t know where to start if you don’t end an intro on their first note.
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Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Originally Posted by John A.
This one has such an iconic version in Db, if you play with a vocalist they always seem to gravitate there...or at least close to there. I hear it in my head pretty clearly in Db...but I play it in F too. Sits nice for solo guitar. Db is much better for vocals and feels better for just playing some bossa rhythm.
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Just Friends often comes up in F (starts on Bb) , I think Real Book is G
Bluesette in Bb, Real Book G
I'm no expert on the Brazilian tunes, but I think the 'right key" for Once I Loved, Triste, etc are up for grabs...
Isn't there a F or Bb tossup for Straight No Chaser?
Shall I open the can of worms that is Stella in G?
PK
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Originally Posted by paulkogut
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
The idea of the "wrong" key is a puzzle to me because no key is wrong for the band - it can only be wrong for the vocalist (and sometimes for the tune). They have to sing where their voices are comfortable and they can most easily encompass the full range of notes in the tune. I've told hundreds of singers over the years never to let a band or accompanist force them into a key that strains the voice. Sure, there are some tunes that sound "like they're supposed to sound" only if played in the original key. But a good vocalist can work across octaves to make most tunes sound great in other keys while protecting their voices.
For those learning to work with singers, stage volume also affects singers' voices. If they can't hear themselves well, many will strain to sing louder than they should. One very fine local jazz singer had to stop performing for a few months because she developed vocal nodules trying to sing with an electric blues band (a costly, foolish and short lived effort I advised against). Keeping stage volume down and using monitors artfully will go a long way toward respecting the physical needs of vocalists.
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Originally Posted by paulkogut
Originally Posted by paulkogut
Originally Posted by paulkogut
Originally Posted by paulkogutLast edited by John A.; 10-24-2024 at 11:44 AM.
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Originally Posted by paulkogut
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In a situation where nobody is reading and the tune is commonly played in a certain key, you can expect that key. Except if there's a singer.
For tunes where there is some ambiguity, the player who called the tune will specify the key, or somebody will ask.
Autumn Leaves, GDS, Just Friends, some people play half of Days of Wine and Roses in Ab (Bill Evans, I think), blues can be in a number of keys. I think Here's That Rainy Day gets played in more than one iirc.
Around here, I don't often, like almost never, see gigs where random tunes are called and nobody reads. Even with players who are capable of that. Instead, I see people reading arrangements. Or, using charts to make sure everybody is on the same harmony and doesn't brain freeze. Maybe they exist, but I don't see them.
I know one singer who won't allow charts, but he works from a list he hands out in advance. The gigs are at the major hotels.
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Thankfully I don't go to sessions so I can use whatever key I like. I've just done Misty in C. I've seen it Eb and F, and apparently it's also played in Ab, but I tried C and it's great. Just saying :-)
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
(I’m ashamed to say I had to read the chords off ireal) for a singer ….
sounded great in Db
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Just gone down the YouTube list:
Jobim - F
Sinatra Jobim - F
Joao & Astrid Gilberto - Db
Gal Costa - Eb
Oscar P - Ab
Diana Krall - Ab
Doesn't really matter, does it?
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Originally Posted by ragman1
They can develop nodules on their vocal cords from straining, and singing in too low a range is at least as bad as reaching for high notes. This is not limited to those with bad technique or lack of training, although a good vocal coach can help almost any singer avoid straining and other harmful habits.
Never push a vocalist into singing in the key in which you want to play a tune if he or she says it’s uncomfortable or if you hear or sense any sign of strain or discomfort. Many (although not enough ) want to be considered easy to work with, so they offer to “try” your key. Be sensitive and respect their needs.
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There's no chance of my pushing vocalists anywhere as I don't work with them. You're saved. Of course the key should be chosen to suit the range of the vocalist. In fact, obviously so.
I can waltz round Ipanema in F as an instrumental with glee but I've found that Db is the kiss of death for me. Nothing to do with vocalists. F is bright and has a life to it. Db, on the other hand, is far more claustrophobic and introverted. I'm sure it suits the low pitch of Joao's voice but instrumentally I find it seriously depressing. Astrid's okay with it, of course.
I've just done it so you may as well hear it. I wouldn't listen too long, though, it's got the curse on it. I only like the last chord :-)
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Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I'm 65 now and have had measurable high-end hearing loss for at least 15 years and chronic tinnitus for at least 30 years. I don't think it's getting worse but I often wear ear protection, especially if working with a drummer or at rehearsals with horns facing me. I bring my custom fitted earplugs with me to concerts, as well, in case it's too loud. I am amazed at how much offense some people take when I'm putting in my ear protection. But I would like to not have to contend with wearing hearing aids, like so many musicians end up. Music is one of the great joys of my life, whether playing or listening, and I'd like to be able to do that unencumbered for as long as possible. The machismo of playing loud with unprotected ears is just stupid.
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My iGigbook is loaded with a bunch of chart collections (old Real Books, 557 Standards, Colorado Cookbook, Ultimate Jazz Fakebook, et al.), and more than a few tunes are set in different keys. What I think of as "canonical" or "default" keys are the ones in the old and legal Real Books and the iReal collections that the regular band members* use. And every once in a while one of the singing bandmembers will call a key different from the usual one. (Not often--these guys have very good pipes and ranges.) Then there are the in-band conventions--always using the Evans key changes for "Days of Wine and Roses" and some other departures I've noticed (but can't recall at the moment).
Maybe it's more useful to think not of right or wrong keyys but of "original" (in the historical sense that I get from, say, the Mantooth books) and "evolved" (as when, say, Miles Davis' versions have become canonical). And that's before considering vocalists or other possible intra-band idiosyncracies.
* I'm a sitter-in with an Android tablet; everybody else use iPads with iReal or paper books for reference. The second-most important iGigbook feature for me is the transposing basic chart, for those tunes where the band doesn't go with the default key. (The first-most is the excellent song-search function.)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Is there a consensus on the best books for...
Today, 03:19 AM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading