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Thought this thread could make for a good resource for people starting out...
What are some common songs in the Real Book that are often called in a different key than what is in the RB?
So to start things off, "Autumn Leaves" is often played in Gm instead of Em (though I still really like that one in Em) and "Green Dolphin Street" is usually played in Eb and not C (I think I remember that one being in C in the RB, don't have a copy here to check)
Add more below.
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10-24-2024 10:00 AM
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Many are not in the original written keys but because of the widespread use and acceptance of real (fake) books those are the keys called.
That said a lot of vocalists sing many tunes in 'the real book' in another key as they're not in their range and weren't transcribed w them in mind, the original tunes were frequently written as vocal tunes.
But there's some singers that can also do them in real book keys.
Then there's the singers that don't know their range or what key they're in.
"can you come down a little bit?"
"no, that's not it, can you come up a little bit?"
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AH yes, with singers all bets are off. I once knew a singer who's wheelhouse was just flat of Db
I was thinking of tunes played instrumentally that are usually called in keys other than that in the RB.
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[Yes, the original RB has GDS in C]
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Night and Day (Real Book: C; Real World: Eb)
Equinox (RB: C-; RW: C#-
Debatable:
Like Someone in Love (RB: Eb; RW, 50/50 Eb/C, though maybe C is less common that that)
Girl From Ipanema, arguably RB/F is "wrong" and "Db" is right, even though this is more complicated than most of the RB vs RW examples
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The 2 you listed are the most common ime and along w tunes like Blue Bossa are the first ones beginners learn. Just Friends is another that sometimes gets called in another key
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Useful thread.
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My favorite is the one who sings the first few notes so we can get his or her key, then starts the tune in a different key. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Many are not in the original written keys but because of the widespread use and acceptance of real (fake) books those are the keys called.
That said a lot of vocalists sing many tunes in 'the real book' in another key as they're not in their range and weren't transcribed w them in mind, the original tunes were frequently written as vocal tunes.
But there's some singers that can also do them in real book keys.
Then there's the singers that don't know their range or what key they're in.
"can you come down a little bit?"
"no, that's not it, can you come up a little bit?"
I’m also always amazed at the number of fine singers who don’t know where to start if you don’t end an intro on their first note.
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Then there's the ones that can do them in almost any key, like Jeannie Brooks, right nshsi? Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Just definitely not Ab, like Rick Beato thinks Originally Posted by John A.
This one has such an iconic version in Db, if you play with a vocalist they always seem to gravitate there...or at least close to there. I hear it in my head pretty clearly in Db...but I play it in F too. Sits nice for solo guitar. Db is much better for vocals and feels better for just playing some bossa rhythm.
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Just Friends often comes up in F (starts on Bb) , I think Real Book is G
Bluesette in Bb, Real Book G
I'm no expert on the Brazilian tunes, but I think the 'right key" for Once I Loved, Triste, etc are up for grabs...
Isn't there a F or Bb tossup for Straight No Chaser?
Shall I open the can of worms that is Stella in G?
PK
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As long as we don't mention the first chord Originally Posted by paulkogut
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Ahhh - she's been one of my favorite singers for decades. I first met her at a "salon" gig in West Philly where the two singers I was there to back introduced me to her. I was just bowled over by her skill, sound and style, and I've felt that way ever since. I haven't seen her in a few years and last played for her even longer ago than that. For those of you who don't know her, here's a taste (with some of Philly's greats behind her - Dave Posmontier on keys, Dave Brodie on bass, and Gusten Rudolph on drums): Originally Posted by wintermoon
Then there's the ones that can do them in almost any key, like Jeannie Brooks, right nshsi?
The idea of the "wrong" key is a puzzle to me because no key is wrong for the band - it can only be wrong for the vocalist (and sometimes for the tune). They have to sing where their voices are comfortable and they can most easily encompass the full range of notes in the tune. I've told hundreds of singers over the years never to let a band or accompanist force them into a key that strains the voice. Sure, there are some tunes that sound "like they're supposed to sound" only if played in the original key. But a good vocalist can work across octaves to make most tunes sound great in other keys while protecting their voices.
For those learning to work with singers, stage volume also affects singers' voices. If they can't hear themselves well, many will strain to sing louder than they should. One very fine local jazz singer had to stop performing for a few months because she developed vocal nodules trying to sing with an electric blues band (a costly, foolish and short lived effort I advised against). Keeping stage volume down and using monitors artfully will go a long way toward respecting the physical needs of vocalists.
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In my RB (original, 5th Edition), it's in Bb; never seen it in G. Originally Posted by paulkogut
I haven't encountered a lot of debate over the RB being wrong about any of those, but that could just be my circles. Originally Posted by paulkogut
I think a lot of people prefer Bb, even while realizing that's "wrong". Originally Posted by paulkogut
Feel free. I haven't actually experienced it in anything other than Bb, except for singers. Originally Posted by paulkogut
Last edited by John A.; 10-24-2024 at 11:44 AM.
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ahh..60's garage rock bands with two guitars getting in tune Originally Posted by wintermoon
"can you come down a little bit?"
"no, that's not it, can you come up a little bit?"
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Most of the people I know will say "standard key (or changes)" vs "real book key (or changes)" for tunes where they differ (rather than right/wrong). It matters more to some than to others. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Yup. That, and warming up. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Another one like Autumn Leaves that was first published in G major but is now most commonly played in Bb major (the instrumental film version of Stella by Starlight is in Bb but Victor Young's original sheet music with lyrics added later by Ned Washington was in G). Thinking of guitarists alone, Tal Farlow, Jimmy Raney, Jim Hall and George Benson all recorded versions of Stella in G. Originally Posted by paulkogut
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In a situation where nobody is reading and the tune is commonly played in a certain key, you can expect that key. Except if there's a singer.
For tunes where there is some ambiguity, the player who called the tune will specify the key, or somebody will ask.
Autumn Leaves, GDS, Just Friends, some people play half of Days of Wine and Roses in Ab (Bill Evans, I think), blues can be in a number of keys. I think Here's That Rainy Day gets played in more than one iirc.
Around here, I don't often, like almost never, see gigs where random tunes are called and nobody reads. Even with players who are capable of that. Instead, I see people reading arrangements. Or, using charts to make sure everybody is on the same harmony and doesn't brain freeze. Maybe they exist, but I don't see them.
I know one singer who won't allow charts, but he works from a list he hands out in advance. The gigs are at the major hotels.
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Thankfully I don't go to sessions so I can use whatever key I like. I've just done Misty in C. I've seen it Eb and F, and apparently it's also played in Ab, but I tried C and it's great. Just saying :-)
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yes just played it in Db at a jam Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Just definitely not Ab, like Rick Beato thinks
This one has such an iconic version in Db, if you play with a vocalist they always seem to gravitate there...or at least close to there. I hear it in my head pretty clearly in Db...but I play it in F too. Sits nice for solo guitar. Db is much better for vocals and feels better for just playing some bossa rhythm.
(I’m ashamed to say I had to read the chords off ireal) for a singer ….
sounded great in Db
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Just gone down the YouTube list:
Jobim - F
Sinatra Jobim - F
Joao & Astrid Gilberto - Db
Gal Costa - Eb
Oscar P - Ab
Diana Krall - Ab
Doesn't really matter, does it?
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It shouldn’t matter to us, but it sure does to the vocalist. A few have wide ranges and are comfortable singing any tune in any key. Far more have sufficiently limited ranges to be uncomfortable or even straining on at least some tunes in some keys. Originally Posted by ragman1
They can develop nodules on their vocal cords from straining, and singing in too low a range is at least as bad as reaching for high notes. This is not limited to those with bad technique or lack of training, although a good vocal coach can help almost any singer avoid straining and other harmful habits.
Never push a vocalist into singing in the key in which you want to play a tune if he or she says it’s uncomfortable or if you hear or sense any sign of strain or discomfort. Many (although not enough
) want to be considered easy to work with, so they offer to “try” your key. Be sensitive and respect their needs.
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There's no chance of my pushing vocalists anywhere as I don't work with them. You're saved. Of course the key should be chosen to suit the range of the vocalist. In fact, obviously so.
I can waltz round Ipanema in F as an instrumental with glee but I've found that Db is the kiss of death for me. Nothing to do with vocalists. F is bright and has a life to it. Db, on the other hand, is far more claustrophobic and introverted. I'm sure it suits the low pitch of Joao's voice but instrumentally I find it seriously depressing. Astrid's okay with it, of course.
I've just done it so you may as well hear it. I wouldn't listen too long, though, it's got the curse on it. I only like the last chord :-)
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Keeping stage volume down is good for everybody and for the music. As it gets louder, it is harder and harder to hear other musicians; if you can't hear them, you can't play with them. Far and away, the best/easiest gigs I had with my old band were those in a room small enough that we could play acoustically rather than using a PA. We could just balance ourselves and everyone could interact much more easily. Far and away, the worst gigs were those through a PA with a sound person that was not competent with providing monitor mix. As far as I can tell, most people running sound systems have very damaged hearing. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I'm 65 now and have had measurable high-end hearing loss for at least 15 years and chronic tinnitus for at least 30 years. I don't think it's getting worse but I often wear ear protection, especially if working with a drummer or at rehearsals with horns facing me. I bring my custom fitted earplugs with me to concerts, as well, in case it's too loud. I am amazed at how much offense some people take when I'm putting in my ear protection. But I would like to not have to contend with wearing hearing aids, like so many musicians end up. Music is one of the great joys of my life, whether playing or listening, and I'd like to be able to do that unencumbered for as long as possible. The machismo of playing loud with unprotected ears is just stupid.
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My iGigbook is loaded with a bunch of chart collections (old Real Books, 557 Standards, Colorado Cookbook, Ultimate Jazz Fakebook, et al.), and more than a few tunes are set in different keys. What I think of as "canonical" or "default" keys are the ones in the old and legal Real Books and the iReal collections that the regular band members* use. And every once in a while one of the singing bandmembers will call a key different from the usual one. (Not often--these guys have very good pipes and ranges.) Then there are the in-band conventions--always using the Evans key changes for "Days of Wine and Roses" and some other departures I've noticed (but can't recall at the moment).
Maybe it's more useful to think not of right or wrong keyys but of "original" (in the historical sense that I get from, say, the Mantooth books) and "evolved" (as when, say, Miles Davis' versions have become canonical). And that's before considering vocalists or other possible intra-band idiosyncracies.
* I'm a sitter-in with an Android tablet; everybody else use iPads with iReal or paper books for reference. The second-most important iGigbook feature for me is the transposing basic chart, for those tunes where the band doesn't go with the default key. (The first-most is the excellent song-search function.)
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To be fair, you're playing it like the Funeral from Ipanema. Originally Posted by ragman1
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