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I'm starting to think there's a guy out there about to create his third jazzguitar.be account and title his first post "How do I use a RealBook?"
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03-22-2024 03:32 PM
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I don't know if I'd advise a 26 year old, practically beginner guitarist who just found a renewed interest in guitar to move to New York to start a journey towards becoming a great jazz guitarist. I mean what could go wrong? We might be getting ahead of ourselves a bit here.
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Instead of going to a music school, use the money to open a bar. Have a couple of jazz nights a week and invite some a-list jazzers in the city (believe they'll come as long as long as you pay for their gas and beer). Make it a condition that they have to include you in the band. You'll be a gigging jazz musician who is learning from some of the best musicians in the city.
Admittedly this is a long shot. But as long as you can keep the bar afloat it'd work and it might be more doable than the alternatives, lol.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
But given the assumption: If not at age 26….when? It could “go wrong”, but something good could come out of it.
New York City may well be past its “sell by” date at this point. I lived there for a quarter century and I don’t miss it. But it’s probably not the only jazz destination.
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by frabarmus
Good luck OP. If you really want it, it's there for the taking!!!
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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Originally Posted by Zlobert98Originally Posted by Zlobert98
I see three things:
1] What
become a great jazz player
want to get good
be a beast of a jazz guitarist
I take this as simply meaning wanting to learn to play Jazz guitar.
2] Why
play gigs at bars
play in bars
I take this to mean performing in venues in general; restaurants, clubs, etc.
3] When (this is really the primary question)
starting this late (at 26)
while I'm young
in my young years
I take this as inquiring how long to expect reaching what and why above if starting at age 26.
Asked when the programmers would finish fixing the project's software bugs that had not yet been discovered, Dilbert replied, "It is illogical to schedule the unknown" (and then was told to think like a manager instead of an engineer). Yes, your user name reminded me of Dilbert.
You've drawn some of both kinds of thinking, and more. I'm inclined to wish good luck, suggest you pursue what you want to do, knowing nothing is certain.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
You may be implying that he doesn’t really want that. Because of his “renewed interest.” The desire is shallow and fleeting.
However, if we assume that the desire is genuine and lasting, why not go to New York or equivalent at age 26?
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
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Okay okay so I love New York, but it’s a really tough place to live and really difficult to make ends meet. I was fortunate to have a spouse and outer borough sensibilities when I moved there, which helped an awful lot.
We shared a basement studio in Bay Ridge that grew mushrooms from the carpet for the first three years. Not sure I could’ve afforded even that if I had it to myself.
I think it’s an incredible city, even still. Especially the deep outer boroughs (if I could live in Bay Ridge and never have to go anywhere but the B1 and B16 lines, I’d do it). But it’s a really really difficult place to just get around, let alone if you’ve sold all your stuff and moved. Just the simple fact of the difficulty of owning a car and the difficulty of getting in from the suburbs makes it a different animal from LA and Chicago, even in kind.
Recommending someone uproot and move there is …. a tricky proposition for me.
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why not go to New York or equivalent at age 26?
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
I can understand a very advanced and ambiguous jazz guitarist wanting to go to New York (or equivalent) to challenge themselves to get to the next level, meet other good players, find an elite player to study with etc. What does New York have to offer to a beginner jazz guitarist that you can't find in most other cities?Last edited by Tal_175; 03-22-2024 at 08:46 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
I think that may have been true at one time. Nonetheless, I don’t think that Dallas or Phoenix are full of the best jazz players.
I do think there may be other cities in Europe and beyond that could help forge jazz greatness.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I’ve seen two pretty good gypsy jazz bands in the last month. Maybe four or five people were actually paying attention to them in each case. The violinist in one was very good; everybody else in my view was okay, decent, solid.
I guess it depends on what great means.
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
And I guess to address Tal above …
… yeah you have to think about what you want to get out of it. The folks recommending a beginner go out to jam sessions in New York would probably do well to go to a few first, for example. I went (almost) exclusively to friendly ones that I loved and that were super welcoming and warm, but they’re nerve wracking for a newbie even with chops and the standard will be very high.
If you want to get something out of it, you have to be ready to get something out of it.
and lots of cities have wonderful wonderful teachers. What New York has that nowhere else does is the community and the sessions and the reading sessions and the clubs. You move when you’re prepared to be in those settings.
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Anyone can become great starting at 26 as long as they have some ability, dedicate themselves to a practice routine, and study with a good teacher. It will probably take 10 years or more at the least for average abilities. Only the super gifted could accelerate from beginner to great in 5 years or so. If you're not worrying about being a full time pro musician and are just concerned with getting good, there's nothing wrong with that goal. If you get a good teacher and put yourself on a solid practice regimen, you can be playing well at gigs in your 30s. Dunno about beast tho.
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Originally Posted by Kirk Garrett
Pack up everything and leave. Suffer for your craft.
It is actually very very difficult to just know yourself and be aware of your limitations for the moment. It’s very difficult to then push up against those limitations and start moving them further and further away. I tend to think it’s quite difficult and admirable to carve out two hours after your kids are asleep and it’s very difficult to be disciplined in what you practice for those two hours. It’s difficult to do that for two or three years.
I think it’s very difficult to factor all of that boring and important stuff in before making big dramatic decisions that seem impressive to those around you. But we tend to snooze at all that really important stuff and give people big high fives for the grand gestures.
Im sure there are other current or former New Yorkers who can confirm: even if you move to New York, you will still have to do all that boring stuff.
Anyway … if the OP does end up moving to New York he should hit me up w a message and I’ll hip him to the best bagel. But there is much that can be done wherever he’s living right now, even if he has to do it with subpar bagels.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I also just want to make sure people understand that I know what I'm good at, and I post a lot of videos here, and that's what I post, for the most part.
There's a whole lot more I'm not good at. I don't post that.
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I'm solidly in the go for it camp. Why not? Just because it didn't work out perfectly for me doesn't mean it won't work out for everybody. You can always leave NY or get a new job.
(I quit school at 16 to play jazz. I did play a lot of jazz. Moved to NY. Lived there 10 years. Played some other stuff. Got my first real job at 40. I'm a cabinetmaker in Canada now. I'm almost ready to retire. I'm happy about all of it.)
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Chief Xian aTunde Adjuah (Christian Scott)
Today, 12:32 AM in The Players