The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I post this because it could say something about my playing or about solo jazz guitar playing tunes. I spent past 4 days on vacation with my late wife's side of the family and she has 7 brothers and sisters. I always take my guitar they all know I play and have heard me play before. Well sure enough Thursday evening I get out the guitar and noddle around in the living room playing some tunes. Not everyone there but family going in and out. Played for about 45 minutes. No response from anyone although they would just engage small talk. Then going on over the never few days with gatherings and in a different spot I am hauling my guitar around. No request for any music at the end of day or really even a thought.

    They are not in tuned with jazz as such and the guitar they do know I take it a the a most seriously level. I never took it out again and now back home just sort of laughing to myself. I have spent a huge amount of time on solo playing and really just more tunes all the standards. Going over even ones I know but have not played in the past as much. I feel like my chops and sound ok and I am a hybrid, pick only, and fingers only player but right now I think........Wow I did not get any ego strokes. Welcome to mediocrity and the real impression of solo jazz guitar.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Even Tommy Emanuel has to resort to banging on the front and sides of his guitar like playing bongo drums to get audience attention…


    Sigh

  4. #3

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    My experience has been that if you don't sing, people are simply not interested. If you do sing, be sure to sing the songs they hear on the radio. It took some time to come around, but I did make the transition from wanting to play for other people to just relaxing and playing for myself, understanding that nobody else really cares one or or another. I don't bring my guitar out and nobody asks me too. I am comfortable with that.

    Remember the stoics concept that whatever happens in life is neutral and whatever we feel and our reaction about it is due to our own thoughts on the matter. If you don't care that other people don't care about your guitar playing efforts, you will be that much happier. Unless you make your living, all or in part, from playing guitar, why not just use it as a form of relaxation? Enjoy the process of endless learning and improvement because that aspect of the guitar never ends and can be endlessly fascinating.

    There is a good small book on the subject (not the stoics, but the idea of practice for the sake of practice and self-fulfillment) called "Mastery" by George Leonard that I read quite some time ago. He was (is?) a martial arts instructor and uses analogies from that experience in the book, but what he says is definitely applicable to this situation. Amazon.com

    I hope that helps...

    Tony

  5. #4

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    Yep, no singing, as tbeltrans said. To top it off you were playing for cheap or free, also a quick way to get door matted. Legit entertainment commands cash so people playing for free are not legit in the eyes of others. Never play for cheap or free or for beer. Also, you're entertainment. All entertainers are low rung second class citizens. I've found accepting my place makes things easier sometimes. I have no business really with people who work 9-5 or have big money. They are above me beyond entertaining them.

  6. #5

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    Mark, I think Joe Pass himself would have got the same reaction. Let it pass...so to speak.

  7. #6

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    Sorry that happened to you. Usually the audience for a jazz event is self-selected of people who like jazz. The audience you had was, as far as musical preference, somewhat randomly selected. So, not surprising that you didn't get a pleasing reaction. Don't let it get you down. Go on to the next thing.

  8. #7
    The odd thing about this is that in the past at gatherings there was an uncle of my wife's who loved all the tunes from big bands, standards, and the classics american song book. He was Uncle Mike and he loved to hear me play. I would ge the guitar out and play and he would come over and start singing a bit to Satin Doll and Don't get Around. But sadly Uncle Mike passed a few years ago. I actually do not take and offense or even expect any reaction. I am been playing the guitar for 50 years I am not dumb on the audience but at times it does make you wonder.

    I just know when I take the guitar out and play and another guitar player is around then of course some interaction happens. Off the subject we were showing family slides from years going back starting in 1955. As we progressed a slide shows up from Christmas 1986 and I am playing my 49 D'angelico New Yorker with 2 of my nephews about 4 years old behind the neck, I was showing them how the guitar works. Thank goodness I still have the D'angelico right? I should post a picture and wow was a young.

  9. #8

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    Play in Austin, most of the time the audience is similarly disinterested. Spoiled from too much easy access to live music. You have to take drastic measures.

    I never really play for friends and family. I never tell any of them when and where I'm playing even. I don't play for people I know outside of the musical realm. Those are two different worlds.

  10. #9

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    Nobody cares less than family. Try it in front of strangers, I bet they dig it.

  11. #10

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    Every great player has played to empty rooms or to uninterested patrons.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Mark, I think Joe Pass himself would have got the same reaction. Let it pass...so to speak.
    Well, odd that you mention. One time at a NAMM show I was at at the Polytone booth and Joe F'n Pass was sitting there playing and everyone around was walking by and not stopping to listen. I got a private show!

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by picodogg
    Well, odd that you mention. One time at a NAMM show I was at at the Polytone booth and Joe F'n Pass was sitting there playing and everyone around was walking by and not stopping to listen. I got a private show!
    Unbelievable, but lucky you!

  14. #13

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    Unfortunately, the majority of world's population would rather listen to an amateur play and sing a pop song badly, than listen to solo Jazz guitar. But, we already knew that, didn't we.

  15. #14

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    I've done many café and restaurant gigs, and remember one woman saying to me after two hours of playing and being talked over: "Can't you play anything we can all sing?" To which I replied. "I hope not!"

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mauibob
    Even Tommy Emanuel has to resort to banging on the front and sides of his guitar like playing bongo drums to get audience attention…


    Sigh
    Herb Ellis and Barney Kessel did that too. When you play without a drummer (as they did with Oscar Peterson), it helps.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Herb Ellis and Barney Kessel did that too. When you play without a drummer (as they did with Oscar Peterson), it helps.
    There was a real art to playing guitongas ?in those drummerless groups. Everybody did it a little differently...I prefer Ray Crawford's method to straight up "guitar-smacking."

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgBone
    Yep, no singing, as tbeltrans said. To top it off you were playing for cheap or free, also a quick way to get door matted. Legit entertainment commands cash so people playing for free are not legit in the eyes of others. Never play for cheap or free or for beer. Also, you're entertainment. All entertainers are low rung second class citizens. I've found accepting my place makes things easier sometimes. I have no business really with people who work 9-5 or have big money. They are above me beyond entertaining them.
    Funny about the 9-5 people. Been reading lately about the Allman Brothers (-lifelong fan) and Dickie Betts said they didn't feel there was any gap between them and their fans. They (the band members) were working people and they made music for working people. (This meant in part that they saw their job as entertaining people, just as they listened to bands and records that entertained them.) They were a curious thing: their debut album bombed and then they made a double live album no one was expecting (or wanting, really) that killed and the rest, as they say, is history.



    Jazz is different----especially if you're playing instrumental music that people can't dance to. And when you think about it, what's in it for them? "O, they're playing 'Stardust'..." and five minutes later, "All The Things You Are...whoopee." I'll admit, I wouldn't pay to go hear someone unknown to me play a solo jazz guitar gig; I'd rather stay home and practice. Or listen to Herb Ellis records.

    I play guitar hours every day and write songs and don't expect other people to give a shit. They have their own stuff going on. God bless 'em all, every one.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbeltrans
    Remember the stoics concept that whatever happens in life is neutral and whatever we feel and our reaction about it is due to our own thoughts on the matter. If you don't care that other people don't care about your guitar playing efforts, you will be that much happier. Unless you make your living, all or in part, from playing guitar, why not just use it as a form of relaxation? Enjoy the process of endless learning and improvement because that aspect of the guitar never ends and can be endlessly fascinating.
    I find the Stoic philosophers bracing but not fully convincing. We know more about the human body than they did and the idea that our emotions are (or can be) under our conscious control is just plain wrong.

    We can improve at the margins, and that's worth doing. ("Don't sweat the small stuff." "Keep a stiff upper lip." "Don't let the bastards get you down." "F**k these clowns.")

    But if your buddy stabs you in the chest and you respond, "I am not going to let this change my mood", well, the less said the better.

    I think it's good to ask oneself (and to answer honestly), "Why am I doing this?" If the answer is, "I want to get better at this and that's all I need to keep me going," great. Or "I want to create music. If others enjoy it, fine, but it's really not for them, it's for me," then being ignored is no concern (and quite possibly a great benefit). But if it's, as Aretha said, "All I'm asking for is a little respect," that's a different matter. If you need the approval of others to feel what you're doing is worth doing, that can create massive frustration. (And if you do need the approval of others in that way, there's no sense pretending you don't. If you do, you do. Perhaps find another way to get it----volunteer, for example, or teach poor kids for free--and then pursue your own musical goals without needing that approval.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I find the Stoic philosophers bracing but not fully convincing. We know more about the human body than they did and the idea that our emotions are (or can be) under our conscious control is just plain wrong.

    We can improve at the margins, and that's worth doing. ("Don't sweat the small stuff." "Keep a stiff upper lip." "Don't let the bastards get you down." "F**k these clowns.")

    But if your buddy stabs you in the chest and you respond, "I am not going to let this change my mood", well, the less said the better.

    I think it's good to ask oneself (and to answer honestly), "Why am I doing this?" If the answer is, "I want to get better at this and that's all I need to keep me going," great. Or "I want to create music. If others enjoy it, fine, but it's really not for them, it's for me," then being ignored is no concern (and quite possibly a great benefit). But if it's, as Aretha said, "All I'm asking for is a little respect," that's a different matter. If you need the approval of others to feel what you're doing is worth doing, that can create massive frustration. (And if you do need the approval of others in that way, there's no sense pretending you don't. If you do, you do. Perhaps find another way to get it----volunteer, for example, or teach poor kids for free--and then pursue your own musical goals without needing that approval.
    I don't overthink the stoics. Instead I simply take what I need and leave the rest.

    There is a lot of insight in your last paragraph, so thanks for responding to my post.

    Tony

  21. #20

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    I've done many café and restaurant gigs, and remember one woman saying to me after two hours of playing and being talked over: "Can't you play anything we can all sing?" To which I replied. "I hope not!"
    ..... hahaha

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Funny about the 9-5 people. Been reading lately about the Allman Brothers (-lifelong fan) and Dickie Betts said they didn't feel there was any gap between them and their fans. They (the band members) were working people and they made music for working people. (This meant in part that they saw their job as entertaining people, just as they listened to bands and records that entertained them.) They were a curious thing: their debut album bombed and then they made a double live album no one was expecting (or wanting, really) that killed and the rest, as they say, is history.



    Jazz is different----especially if you're playing instrumental music that people can't dance to. And when you think about it, what's in it for them? "O, they're playing 'Stardust'..." and five minutes later, "All The Things You Are...whoopee." I'll admit, I wouldn't pay to go hear someone unknown to me play a solo jazz guitar gig; I'd rather stay home and practice. Or listen to Herb Ellis records.

    I play guitar hours every day and write songs and don't expect other people to give a shit. They have their own stuff going on. God bless 'em all, every one.
    Jazz is no different IMO. No one gives a shit about any music until you force them to. It doesnt matter what genre it is. Solo acts of any genre are a harder sell, it doesn't have to be jazz. I turned down some solo gigs today because loud, brash stuff makes me more money. I have found being hard line, singular in your approach, nets more respect long term than just playing whatever dumb shit you think people want to hear. Everybody else can be versatile if they want i only play loud blues. They don't know what they want to hear in actuality so it is your duty to force feed them.

    Robs post about a lady asking him if he can play a singalong and him saying I hope not is exactly where I'm at. I play what I want, what I like, for the enjoyment of others. If they don't like it I can help them find the door. Even when you cater to the masses there will be those who don't like it so I reckoned I'd just play what I like, not what I think other people like.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    I post this because it could say something about my playing or about solo jazz guitar playing tunes. I spent past 4 days on vacation with my late wife's side of the family and she has 7 brothers and sisters. I always take my guitar they all know I play and have heard me play before. Well sure enough Thursday evening I get out the guitar and noddle around in the living room playing some tunes. Not everyone there but family going in and out. Played for about 45 minutes. No response from anyone although they would just engage small talk. Then going on over the never few days with gatherings and in a different spot I am hauling my guitar around. No request for any music at the end of day or really even a thought.

    They are not in tuned with jazz as such and the guitar they do know I take it a the a most seriously level. I never took it out again and now back home just sort of laughing to myself. I have spent a huge amount of time on solo playing and really just more tunes all the standards. Going over even ones I know but have not played in the past as much. I feel like my chops and sound ok and I am a hybrid, pick only, and fingers only player but right now I think........Wow I did not get any ego strokes. Welcome to mediocrity and the real impression of solo jazz guitar.
    I've often brought a guitar with me on vacation, but never with any expectation that the people I'm with (usually my immediate family, but sometimes others) would pay me any notice or that I'd be performing for them. I assume their silence means they don't want to bother me while I'm practicing. Maybe that's what's going on with your family?

  24. #23
    One thing I do know is that for the typical flattop type player who really just uses the guitar to sing, seeing me take out a guitar is different. I have many times been at places where Liturgical Music is being played, either at Mass or some worship service. I never play at any of these for 2 reasons. One, I am deacon, so I function in that capacity first as it stands the Catholic Church only has Priest and Deacons as clergy. So not many of us. Second, is I completely throw them off because I don't have a capo and don't care what key the music is in just put it from of me. Once, as a strumming Christian artist mentioned to me, "you play chords I have never seen and your guitar looks different." The few times I have generally are fine, but they cannot count or take any clues from me very well just playing along. I don't just strum open chords it is way too boring.

  25. #24

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    I assume nobody ever wants to hear me. On the rare occasion someone asks me to play or comments on my playing, I take it as a bonus. Sometimes I'm practicing and get tired of hearing myself!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbeltrans
    I don't overthink the stoics. Instead I simply take what I need and leave the rest.
    Tony
    All things in moderation, including moderation.