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Originally Posted by kris
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04-29-2023 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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And I'm sure you all drink sparkling wine unless it comes from a specific region in France?
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Originally Posted by AaronMColeman
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Originally Posted by kris
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Anytime there isn't a standardized definition of a term, the thread lengthens.
I've never heard anybody say "let's play a bebop tune". I have heard "bop tune".
On those rare occasions I hear the word "bebop" it refers to the music made in that era.
Every jazz player I know has played bop tunes. In fact, most seem to be able to play Donna Lee at the drop of a hat. Not a joke.
The music is descended from the bebop guys.
Is it bebop? Give me an agreed-upon definition of the word.
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most seem to be able to play Donna Lee at the drop of a hat. Not a joke.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Music itself is constantly changing. Inherent is the fact that no two performances are exactly the same, of any piece of music. That inherency is so profoundly enmeshed in the art form itself, as to make a definitional aspect. (That sounds like a circular argument. I have to think about that). I would argue, due to that quality, the argument for bebop as fixed in a historical moment is problematic.
If you need, I can come up with a counter argument. I would probably employ notions of phenomenology, negation of negation (thesis, anti-thesie, synthesis… I thought that might work above but it seemed problematic), and zeitgeist…
(a lot of this has been already said… but I paid so much to be able to use these words…)
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Originally Posted by sgcim
Or 1953:
Last edited by RLetson; 05-05-2023 at 01:51 PM.
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That first one sounded like it was influenced a little bit by Salt Peanuts.
Most people change with the times. Django was something else.
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According to the biographies, Django heard the first bebop recordings of the day pretty quickly. And liked what he heard, adapted what he could. His post-Quintet stuff- especially his amplified later things with the Steimer pickup- are different
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Does anybody really play bebop these days?
Not really, no. I think we'd like it to be so but, actually, no. Bebop proper went out in the 50's. Everything from there on became variations on bebop or simply bore a similarity to it. Certainly what the 'modern' players of today are playing isn't bebop.
It's all very well trying to stress that all this guitar playing has its roots in bebop, which is partially true, but because it's similar to it doesn't make it bebop. That's like saying we're still speaking Chaucherian English because there's a root similarity.
In any case, there's only so many ways of playing lines. There are only so many notes, only so many chromaticisms, only so many chordal sounds if a tune is going to be held together. On that level you may as well say that bebop was still the folk music or church music that preceded it. There's nothing new under the sun.
Doubtless there are people who still play bebop, or what passes for it these days, but they're an anachronism, keeping something they like alive. But the same could be said of anything kept alive by die-hards after its time has passed.
About the only thing that really broke the mold was the blues. and that was never bebop.
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Well MacSparky seems to think there are and I quote:
"There are some remarkable contemporary jazz artists making traditional bebop jazz these days. One of my favorites is the Yayennings Quartet."
Jazz Friday - Yayennings, Vol. 2 - MacSparky
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Incoming
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Originally Posted by thelostboss
Also, interestingly, the quartet is sax, trumpet, bass and drums. No keys or guitar which means no chords in the background or solos although they play across each other. So, again, there's a sort of wondering about what the style actually is. With me, anyhow.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I find the observation about 'keeping the squares out' particularly helpful. Sad, too.Last edited by DestinyT; 05-07-2023 at 08:21 AM. Reason: spelling
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Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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"Bebop" died in the 70s. It's playing is purely nostalgic.
It's good, just nothing more than, let's say, Dixieland.
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Originally Posted by AaronMColeman
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Originally Posted by ragman1
That you’re not doing it 78 years ago is irrelevant. Whether an audience exists for it is a different question. But for those of us who earned a living gigging and have given that up, the joy of (attempting to) play bebop far outweighs the sadness of the dwindling audience.
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If you play a bebop tune, you’re playing bebop.
If you play a Renaissance tune you’re playing Renaissance. If you play it romantically, that’s on you.
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Originally Posted by coyote-1
Just a moment...
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Originally Posted by Guy In Lyon
and of course Diz lived until ‘93, Joe Pass ‘94, and Oscar Peterson 2007. What were THOSE guys playing after 1979? Cannonball, Phil Woods,,,,,,,,,,,,
Chief Xian aTunde Adjuah (Christian Scott)
Today, 12:32 AM in The Players